Our own VSN's top 50 greatest NFL players of all time

[Warner2BruceTD]

LOL. It's an oversimplification just to look at the numbers and deduce that KC's offensive line is good because they led the league in rushing.

They had 556 attempts...more than anybody in the league. Thomas Jones was decent before he started breaking down. Charles is a hell of a player.

Here's KC's offensive line...

LT - Branden Albert - average. Has not lived up to the potential the Chiefs saw in him. So good that come draft time, people are always saying he needs to move to guard or right tackle.

LG - Brian Waters - old, skills have diminished a lot, not very good anymore

C - Casey Weigmann - even older, even worse than Waters. Undersized. Gets his shit pushed in all the time at the point of attack.

RG - Ryan Lilja - Colts thought he was done. Finesse player. Might have been KC's best lineman.

RT - Barry Richardson - sucks. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Big, physical specimen...the knock on him coming out of Clemson was lack of desire for the game. He hasn't done anything to prove that criticism wrong.

Beast of a lineup there.

Amazing.

 

[NAHSTE]

Yes. Blick walked right into my circular logic trap.

 

[JBregz]

Steven Jackson: Consecutive 1000 yard seasons (7)
Jamaal Charles: Consecutive 1000 yard seasons (2)

Jamaal isn't used enough and I disagree with that but would he have that 6.4 avg if he was rushing the ball 300+ times in a season right into the heart of the defense?

You also don't understand the team Steven Jackson has to play for and the team the Charles plays for.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Back that with Woodley has been to 2 SBs, won one of them, he has 20 lbs. on Mathews, runs just as fast, and didn't need steroids to get big.

13.5 sacks, 54 tackles and now Mathews is the leagues best linebacker in the league? Bullshit. That's just outright bullshit. He's obviously way over hyped. I question the evaluation ability of anybody who would say Mathews is the best LB in the league with 13.5 sacks and 54 tackles.

Ware had 15.5 sacks last year, 11 the year before, and 20 before that. And Mathews is a better OLB?

Patrick Willis had 128 tackles and 6 sacks last year, 151 tkls and 4 sacks before that, another 141 tackles and 174 tackles the previous years. He's a sideline to sideline dominator. IMO the best linebacker playing today.

Ray Lewis IMO has slowed down a lot over the last five seasons, but he's still a top MLB, with a ton of tackles the dude is still productive, even though P.Willis has out produced him each of the last four seasons.

Last year Woodley had 10.0 sacks and 50 tackles, the year before he had 13.5 sacks and 62 tackles, the year before that 11.5 sacks and 60 tackles. He's been more productive over the last 3 seasons than Mathews, and he's in a better defense (it's true) and he's still young like Mathews, and shows just as much potential as Mathews to continue dropping 10-14 sacks per season. He's absolutely in that range of talent as far as I'm concerned. I'm still waiting to see why he's so over-hyped(Mathews).

Harrison has been DPOY, along with his 10 sacks last year had had 90 tackles, and is a highlight machine. [remember the SB's longest play in history, the 100 yard INT return to close out halftime against the Cards] The dude doesn't just change games, I've seen Harrison win multiple games. He drops double digit sacks every year, along with 80+ tackles per year, along with all the turnovers and havoc he creates, it's crazy not to consider him higher on these lists.

Too many of these linebackers are on par or so close to each other in talent and production that it's not possible to separate them by such a wide margin. And I'm taking issue with Mathews because it's obvious to me that he's being over-hyped based on winning the SB, which Harrison and Woodley have done as well.

I think Matthews has to do more on his team then Woodley/Harrison, who can not only rely on each other, but other great players around them. The Packers D is good, but its not built like the Steelers or as good IMO. I think how good the Steelers LBs are kind of ends of equaling each other out and maybe not getting the same rating as a Matthews, Lewis, or Willis, altho I do believe Harrison gets as much love as those guys, even if he didnt from me.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I am looking forward at the opportunity to use my NFL mod powers to filter out the words "Josh Freeman" from this list.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I know what his argument is. It's getting old.

That's debatable.

How the hell is that debatable? The Rams won all of 6 games from 2007-2009. Jackson has been on some downright miserable teams.

 

[Blick]

It's not shocking ... but your reliance solely on numbers to support your opinion is what I have an issue with because it fails to account for how miserable the Rams offense was for almost all of Jackson's entire career to date.

It's an oversimplification just to look at the numbers and deduce that Charles is a better back than Jackson.

Especially when Charles has yet to survive even one season where he's asked to shoulder the load Jackson has carried for the last half-decade. If you want to factor in durability/age then yeah maybe Jackson will break down further due to the overuse... But Charles isn't exactly a tank either at a spindly 199 lbs. How do we know how he'll hold up throughout his career?

You make it seem like Jackson is an over the hill vet, yet he's only 27. I'd take him in a straight up pick-up draft based on versatility and talent. "Home run" hitting be damned.

Warner said it was shocking. That's what I had an issue with.

 

[Blick]

How the hell is that debatable? The Rams won all of 6 games from 2007-2009. Jackson has been on some downright miserable teams.

NAHSTE said that Jackson is a top 3 talent easily.

I said that was debatable.

 

[NAHSTE]

NAHSTE said that Jackson is a top 3 talent easily.

I said that was debatable.

Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson are the only backs who I can definitely say are more talented than Jackson. Certainly it's debatable, but IMO Jackson is an elite back, numbers be damned.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson are the only backs who I can definitely say are more talented than Jackson. Certainly it's debatable, but IMO Jackson is an elite back, numbers be damned.

The thing is, his numbers are pretty damn good. I dont get the critique. You can knock the TD's but anyone with a brain knows the reason for the low totals.

He's averaging over 8.0 per catch for his career, has six straight 1,000 yard seasons despite a couple of years where he missed some games, has a 90 catch season under his belt, has led the league in yards from scrimmage, and has one of the highest active per game yardage averages.

 

[G-men]

Shayn you are creating battles that no one is arguing with you about. when did anyone say Matthews was better than Ware? when did anyone denounce what James Harrison has done? when did anyone say Woodley is a bad player?

 

[Blick]

Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson are the only backs who I can definitely say are more talented than Jackson. Certainly it's debatable, but IMO Jackson is an elite back, numbers be damned.

Those are the only two guys I would take over Charles.

Charles is fresh off an elite season, and is undoubtedly one of the top backs in the league now.

Remember, we're talking about RIGHT NOW, not who's been the best player over the last five years.

Charles doesn't have Jackson's resume yet obviously, but that's only a matter of getting more seasons under his belt.

They're both great players. I just like my guy better and Warner likes his guy better.

 

[Buzzman]

Steven Jackson: Consecutive 1000 yard seasons (7)
Jamaal Charles: Consecutive 1000 yard seasons (2)

Jamaal isn't used enough and I disagree with that but would he have that 6.4 avg if he was rushing the ball 300+ times in a season right into the heart of the defense?

You also don't understand the team Steven Jackson has to play for and the team the Charles plays for.

You're acting like the Chiefs are so much better than Rams. I'd argue they were the worst playoff team last year, including Seattle. They play in the 2nd worst division in football and won mainly with defense and Cassell protecting the ball by running it so much. They were able to do that because Charles is an absolute beast. Based on the past, you have to say Jackson is abetter back, but if I could have just one RB for only 1 year next season, I'd take Charles.

 

[ram29jackson]

50 greatest players ? who gives a damn ? any of you arm chair morons can come up with a favorites/ best list agreeing on the same boring 10 players over and over again...

make it interesting. Make it hard. A top 50 kickers list would be more of a challenge but you guys are too pussy and unknowledgeable to even try that one.....

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

You're acting like the Chiefs are so much better than Rams. I'd argue they were the worst playoff team last year, including Seattle. They play in the 2nd worst division in football and won mainly with defense and Cassell protecting the ball by running it so much. They were able to do that because Charles is an absolute beast. Based on the past, you have to say Jackson is abetter back, but if I could have just one RB for only 1 year next season, I'd take Charles.

:jonesy:

Seattle was fucking below .500 man.. sure they won a game but the Chiefs had a pretty solid squad last year, their D was very stout, and they have 2 of the more explosive play makers in the league in Charles and Bowe. The Rams are not only at a major disadvantage in terms of personnel, but also deal with some of the most inept play calling and coaching you'll ever see.

 

[JBregz]

You're acting like the Chiefs are so much better than Rams. I'd argue they were the worst playoff team last year, including Seattle. They play in the 2nd worst division in football and won mainly with defense and Cassell protecting the ball by running it so much. They were able to do that because Charles is an absolute beast. Based on the past, you have to say Jackson is abetter back, but if I could have just one RB for only 1 year next season, I'd take Charles.

Yeah the Chiefs made the playoffs, Rams didn't. Cassell protecting the ball? You act as if that is a negative towards Charles play. Truth is Chiefs kept a lot of their games in reach and won a good amount of them to continue to run the ball. The Rams not so much, and in years past god no.
They were able to win games because their team is well balanced. They had a QB that played solid, they had a solid D and they have a great back in Charles. But he still does not deserve to be put above Jackson. By going your judging by last year alone Arian Foster should be #1 then. Is he?

Charles is blazing fast and is essentially a poor mans Chris Johnson, but I see him as a one trick pony at this point and I don't see him able to carry the ball 300+ times a season like Jackson and run through the middle of the defense and have the success he has had.

Steven Jackson is the perfect = Peyton Manning in terms of their value to their team. With Jackson their a 7+ win team but qithout him, Let's see them win 2. Just like Manning. With him their a 11 or so win team, without him. Maybe 5?

 

[Blick]

Yeah the Chiefs made the playoffs, Rams didn't. Cassell protecting the ball? You act as if that is a negative towards Charles play. Truth is Chiefs kept a lot of their games in reach and won a good amount of them to continue to run the ball. The Rams not so much, and in years past god no.
They were able to win games because their team is well balanced. They had a QB that played solid, they had a solid D and they have a great back in Charles. But he still does not deserve to be put above Jackson. By going your judging by last year alone Arian Foster should be #1 then. Is he?Charles is blazing fast and is essentially a poor mans Chris Johnson, but I see him as a one trick pony at this point and I don't see him able to carry the ball 300+ times a season like Jackson and run through the middle of the defense and have the success he has had.

Steven Jackson is the perfect = Peyton Manning in terms of their value to their team. With Jackson their a 7+ win team but qithout him, Let's see them win 2. Just like Manning. With him their a 11 or so win team, without him. Maybe 5?

Foster has one good year. Charles has two consecutive 1100 yard seasons, and last season he did something that none of his peers have done. He's better than Foster.

Charles is no one trick pony or poor man's Chris Johnson. He has the same build and skillset as Johnson. Charles actually weighs more, which means he can probably handle 300+ carries if Johnson can.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Foster has one good year. Charles has two consecutive 1100 yard seasons, and last season he did something that none of his peers have done. He's better than Foster.

Charles is no one trick pony or poor man's Chris Johnson. He has the same build and skillset as Johnson. Charles actually weighs more, which means he can probably handle 300+ carries if Johnson can.

Thats actually my only question with him. I think he's awesome. I just want to see him carry the load and have another big year.

 

[Blick]

You're acting like the Chiefs are so much better than Rams. I'd argue they were the worst playoff team last year, including Seattle. They play in the 2nd worst division in football and won mainly with defense and Cassell protecting the ball by running it so much. They were able to do that because Charles is an absolute beast. Based on the past, you have to say Jackson is abetter back, but if I could have just one RB for only 1 year next season, I'd take Charles.

Thanked for the part in bold. I don't agree that the Chiefs were worse than seattle, though.

Something that seems to be getting lost here with all of this crying about how bad the Rams are is how bad the Chiefs were prior to last season. They were almost as bad as the Rams, winning only 6 games combined in 2008 and 2009.

And you guys act like Charles hasn't been on bad teams.

 

[Bmore]

:jonesy:

Seattle was fucking below .500 man.. sure they won a game but the Chiefs had a pretty solid squad last year, their D was very stout, and they have 2 of the more explosive play makers in the league in Charles and Bowe. The Rams are not only at a major disadvantage in terms of personnel, but also deal with some of the most inept play calling and coaching you'll ever see.

Name a team with a winning record the Chiefs beat last year.