Our own VSN's top 50 greatest NFL players of all time

[Bmore]

That would STILL be Aaron Rodgers.:smug:

:fuckyeah:



I'm with bucky.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Looks like I just renewed my subscription, bitch. RECOGNIZE!

lol

I'm not judging on track times and verticals. Matthews plays at a faster speed than Harrison and Woodley. For example, I don't know what Polamalu's 40 time is, but he's the fastest defensive player in the NFL.

Harrison most definitely does not have the speed and quickness on the field that Mathews has, he's more of a power rusher. But Woodley does have Mathews like speed on the field. Pay more attention.

[quote/I never claimed Matthews was stronger. Or heavier.[/quote]

You did however say

Two, Matthews has great range and is able to slip blocks pretty easily. I think Woodley and Harrison are very good, but they don't have Matthews combo of speed and technique.

Woodley has Mathews speed, more power, and his rushing technique, inside, outside, bull rush, and around the edge is elite. And Woodley is good in coverege as well. What technique are you talking about. Break it down for me, what does Mathews do better than Woodley, precisely.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

:fuckyeah:



I'm with bucky.

You're just mad b'cuz you're a Ravens fan.

 

[Bmore]

You're just mad b'cuz you're a Ravens fan.

I think it's more the fact that I love Aaron Godgers then my hate for Ben Roflburger. Roflburger is a good QB, I'd even start him over Flacco if he was in Baltimore. Just cuz I'm a Ravens fan doesn't mean I don't have common sense.

 

[Senser81]

Woodley has Mathews speed, more power, and his rushing technique, inside, outside, bull rush, and around the edge is elite. And Woodley is good in coverege as well. What technique are you talking about. Break it down for me, what does Mathews do better than Woodley, precisely.

I think Matthews has better technique in being able to shed blockers. He is good at shooting gaps and stopping outside running plays run directly at him, and he is good in pursuit. I don't think Woodley is as good at shedding blockers and chasing down ballcarriers. Thats not to say he's bad. Woodley doesn't play with Matthews' speed and technique. Which is what I already said.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

I think Matthews has better technique in being able to shed blockers. He is good at shooting gaps and stopping outside running plays run directly at him, and he is good in pursuit. I don't think Woodley is as good at shedding blockers and chasing down ballcarriers. Thats not to say he's bad. Woodley doesn't play with Matthews' speed and technique. Which is what I already said.

I agree to disagree then.

 

[G-men]

And Tony Gonzalez has more great years than Vernon Davis, but who's better right now?

Charles isn't lacking any toughness either.

He's already elite. If you don't recognize him as elite, that's fine. Running back is an instinctual position. You either have it or you don't. Charles isn't going to fall off out of nowhere unless he has a career threatening injury.

Larry Johnson - 2 good years
Priest Holmes - 3 good years
Christian Okoye - 2 good years

you should well know as a Chiefs fan that running backs can come and go. Larry Johnson was 25 when he had 20 TDs and two years later was ineffectual as an NFL running back. one and half good years doesn't mean Charles has staying power.

Their speed is comparable, Mathews 40 time is 4.62, Woodley's 40 time is 4.62, he's every bit as fast as Mathews. Woodley is also just as quick, they had nearly the same broad jump 10'01" and vertical 38-1/2" compared to Mathews 35-1/2" vertical and 10'1" broad jump. This just goes to show that Woodley's explosion is also on par with Mathews.

Woodley however is 20 lbs heavier and a bit stronger than Mathews. Mathews did 225 only 25 times, still good, but Woodley did it 29 times. This is all fact, not fiction. Like I said before, in measurables they are almost the same athlete.

come on now. football isnt a track meet, and none of those "stats" matter. im sure i could beat BJ Raji in a sprint but that doesnt mean i can get to the quarterback faster than him.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Larry Johnson - 2 good years
Priest Holmes - 3 good years
Christian Okoye - 2 good years

you should well know as a Chiefs fan that running backs can come and go. Larry Johnson was 25 when he had 20 TDs and two years later was ineffectual as an NFL running back. one and half good years doesn't mean Charles has staying power.

Others bring up his staying power, or attempt to. I'm not. I'm saying right now, today, Charles is better. Jackson has more power, breaks more tackles, and can pick up tough yardage. I'll give him that. But Charles is just better at picking up yardage, and he's more dangerous in that he can go house on every play. Jackson can't. That's just fact.

come on now. football isnt a track meet, and none of those "stats" matter. im sure i could beat BJ Raji in a sprint but that doesnt mean i can get to the quarterback faster than him.

These "stats" or "measurables" as I like to call them, directly relate to the fact that Woodley is every bit the athlete that Mathews is. I've said it three or four times now. I'll say it again. Woodley is every bit the ATHLETE that Mathews is. He has the same speed, quickness, all of the physical ability that Mathews has, but with a bit more power. That said, no I don't think Mathews plays faster, sheds blocks better, covers more ground, or any of that. Because I've seen Mathews play, I've seen Woodley play. Saying Mathews has a better combo of speed and technique is pure bullshit. That's not fact based, that's opinion. And opinion is skewed by hype. They said William Wallace was 7 foot tall and shot fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.

 

[Senser81]

Saying Mathews has a better combo of speed and technique is pure bullshit. That's not fact based, that's opinion.

Of course its opinion. And evidently other people share this opinion, as evidenced by Matthews' DPOTY award.

 

[Blick]

Larry Johnson - 2 good years
Priest Holmes - 3 good years
Christian Okoye - 2 good years

you should well know as a Chiefs fan that running backs can come and go. Larry Johnson was 25 when he had 20 TDs and two years later was ineffectual as an NFL running back. one and half good years doesn't mean Charles has staying power.

You are ignoring running style, how those backs were used, and age. Larry Johnson was a workhorse battering ram who ran high, got hit a lot, and Herm Edwards ran him into the ground. LJ set the record for carries in a single season the year after the season you mentioned. Charles will never see that kind of abuse. Priest and Okoye were old. They were both 28 in their first good years with KC. Charles is 24 with 2 good seasons already under his belt, and doesn't turn 25 until December 27th.

So yeah, I'd say a 24 year old back that hasn't been over-utilized has more staying power than a back that was overworked and two backs that were just plain old by running back standards.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Of course its opinion. And evidently other people share this opinion, as evidenced by Matthews' DPOTY award.

LMAO

Troy Polamalu won DPOTY, not Mathews. :smug:

 

[Senser81]

LMAO

Troy Polamalu won DPOTY, not Mathews. :smug:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/fee...-the-year-green-bay-packers-olb-clay-matthews

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/fee...-the-year-green-bay-packers-olb-clay-matthews

the sportingnews.com award is not the same as the Associated Press DPOTY Trophy. The AP award is what matters, and is the only one recognized by the NFL or ESPN or anything else that really matters.

The SN DPOTY would be like awarding Mike Vick the VSN OPOTY award. We can all vote on it, but the NFL still won't give a shit.

 

[G-men]

These "stats" or "measurables" as I like to call them, directly relate to the fact that Woodley is every bit the athlete that Mathews is. I've said it three or four times now. I'll say it again. Woodley is every bit the ATHLETE that Mathews is. He has the same speed, quickness, all of the physical ability that Mathews has, but with a bit more power. That said, no I don't think Mathews plays faster, sheds blocks better, covers more ground, or any of that. Because I've seen Mathews play, I've seen Woodley play. Saying Mathews has a better combo of speed and technique is pure bullshit. That's not fact based, that's opinion. And opinion is skewed by hype. They said William Wallace was 7 foot tall and shot fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.

yeah and Vernon Gholston had all those same "measurables" when he went to the combine. look how that turned out.

 

[Senser81]

the sportingnews.com award is not the same as the Associated Press DPOTY Trophy. The AP award is what matters, and is the only one recognized by the NFL or ESPN or anything else that really matters.

The SN DPOTY would be like awarding Mike Vick the VSN OPOTY award. We can all vote on it, but the NFL still won't give a shit.

Good point. Or like W2B getting VSN POTY or Str8Annoying getting VSN ROTY.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

yeah and Vernon Gholston had all those same "measurables" when he went to the combine. look how that turned out.

Vernon is one hell of an athlete, just not a good football player.

Senser wanted to pass of Mathews as a faster athlete than Woodley, which just isn't true, proved by these measurables. In this instance, when all things being equal (productivity), being that they are comparable in numbers (good football players), and somebody says one has more speed, then these measurables are directly related to the subject of athleticism and not football stats.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Good point. Or like W2B getting VSN POTY or Str8Annoying getting VSN ROTY.

Exactly. LOL

uke2:

 

[G-men]

Vernon is one hell of an athlete, just not a good football player.

Senser wanted to pass of Mathews as a faster athlete than Woodley, which just isn't true, proved by these measurables. In this instance, when all things being equal (productivity), being that they are comparable in numbers (good football players), and somebody says one has more speed, then these measurables are directly related to the subject of athleticism and not football stats.

he never said Matthews was a faster athlete, he said Matthews was a faster football player. theres a distinct difference.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

I think Woodley and Harrison are very good, but they don't have Matthews combo of speed and technique.

I've shown factual proof that Woodley has Mathews speed with measurable data. Translating that to the football field is relative, if they have the same speed running on a track, they will very similar speeds running on the football field. In this case, they both produce numbers, so it's not a debate of how or if that speed translates to the football field. It's a debate of does Woodley have Mathews speed, and he does. Fact.

I think Matthews has better technique in being able to shed blockers. He is good at shooting gaps and stopping outside running plays run directly at him, and he is good in pursuit. I don't think Woodley is as good at shedding blockers and chasing down ballcarriers. Thats not to say he's bad. Woodley doesn't play with Matthews' speed and technique. Which is what I already said.

This has to be opinion based on pure hype, because I've seen them both play, a lot. And this statement is completely and totally bullshit. If Mathews sheds blockers better it's by such a small margin that it can't possibly be measured or determined. Period.

It's the same for all of this bullshit "technique" list.

Two things are going on here.

1 - Given that Woodley and Mathews are very similar in production, athletic gifts, etc. I've asked for proof why Woodley is not as good as Mathews. No proof or argument has been given yet. Simply saying he has better technique does not make it so. Show me proof he has better technique. Maybe some game film? Or a given situation. Something as evidence that Mathews has better technique. Because until I get some proof, nobody has proved to me that Mathews has it over Woodley.

2 - Mathews has more speed = disproved. Fact. Period. Done with that argument.

Best argument so far = Mathews has better combo of speed and technique, which are either proved fasle (speed) or have yet to be proven (technique).

 

[killgod]

I've shown factual proof that Woodley has Mathews speed with measurable data. Translating that to the football field is relative, if they have the same speed running on a track, they will very similar speeds running on the football field. In this case, they both produce numbers, so it's not a debate of how or if that speed translates to the football field. It's a debate of does Woodley have Mathews speed, and he does. Fact.

I dunno if you can word it the way you did.

Having the same "track" speed is one thing, but having the reactive speed of playing linebacker is entirely different.

I would not consider "track speed" as an accurate measurement of how quick a player reacts and plays on a football field.