PFT: Garcia On Track To Take Job From JaMarcus?

[Tailback U]

Then I suppose I would question the wisdom of drafting a QB #1 overall that needs to learn a lot mentally and physically to play the QB position in the pro's.

I questioned the pick at the time but there's no point in continuing to cry about it nearly 3 years later. For the record, I stated on MM that I wanted Calvin Johnson in the 1st and Trent Edwards in the 2nd and that I thought Russell had bust written all over him.

Some of which doesn't make sense for JR anyways because coming out of school all people did was rave about his physical tools. Mentally though, he's always been as dumb as rocks. That was a huge knock on him at LSU. LSU's offense was so watered down it wasn't even funny. Whenever JR had to put the game on himself and throw a lot of passes he didn't fair well. Hell his numbers against good teams in college were barely average.

His physical problems include accuracy/touch issues. Mentally, everyone knows where he stands.

LOL at the Rivers and Rodgers comparison. Rivers sat behind a Pro Bowl caliber QB in Drew Brees and Rodgers was backing up a future HOF'er and one of the best in the game. As if those two situations are even close to JR sitting behind Andrew Walter.

I knew this was going to come up and be questioned but the fact of the matter is that Russell wasn't ready at the time because he missed all of minicamp/OTAs.

The Raiders didn't start him because they were either afraid of throwing him into the mix too early and breaking him or because he simply didn't know the playbook well enough. I'm guessing it was both.

I don't know what you guys are trying to get me to say here. I've admitted that Russell has sucked after 16 starts. I'm not going to say that he is doomed and will suck forever though because the fact is that he has only started 16 friggin games.

The only thing I have been saying throughout this entire thread is that he has only started 16 times and that is not enough time to judge a quarterback in this league. If he shits the bed this season then I will give up on him, but if he continues to improve and get better as the season progresses then why would I give up on him?

He improved drastically towards the end of the season last year. I think he can continue to build upon that as long as he is in the right offense and has consistency within his coaches, scheme, and teammates.

I don't get why you guys are bashing me for thinking like this.

 

[FirstTimer]

I questioned the pick at the time but there's no point in continuing to cry about it nearly 3 years later. For the record, I stated on MM that I wanted Calvin Johnson in the 1st and Trent Edwards in the 2nd and that I thought Russell had bust written all over him.


His physical problems include accuracy/touch issues. Mentally, everyone knows where he stands.

What exactly were his strengths in college then? Accuracy issues, mental midget, weight problems, doesn't sound like a guy I want as my franchise QB. It seems you got some odd combo of Mike Vick and Ryan Leaf....minus the tempertantrums and federal prison time.

I knew this was going to come up and be questioned but the fact of the matter is that Russell wasn't ready at the time because he missed all of minicamp/OTAs.

The Raiders didn't start him because they were either afraid of throwing him into the mix too early and breaking him or because he simply didn't know the playbook well enough. I'm guessing it was both.

I don't know what you guys are trying to get me to say here. I've admitted that Russell has sucked after 16 starts. I'm not going to say that he is doomed and will suck forever though because the fact is that he has only started 16 friggin games.

The only thing I have been saying throughout this entire thread is that he has only started 16 times and that is not enough time to judge a quarterback in this league. If he shits the bed this season then I will give up on him, but if he continues to improve and get better as the season progresses then why would I give up on him?

He improved drastically towards the end of the season last year. I think he can continue to build upon that as long as he is in the right offense and has consistency within his coaches, scheme, and teammates.

I don't get why you guys are bashing me for thinking like this.

I'm not so much bashing your thinking of this. I did the same thing in a lot of ways supporting Rex Grossman. I think where people are taking issue is with your comparisons and methods for thinking this way. It's tough to factually support that you think a guy will improve because it's all speculation. Using a guy's college stats talking about other HOF QB's and comparing him to young QB's who didn't go through the situation with who they were sitting behind doesn't make much sense IMO.

But meh. Whatever. So far the guy I thought would be the best QB in the draft (Quinn) hasn't done anything either other than sit behind a Pro Bowler his rookie season. So we will see.

 

[Liquidrob]

JR was not great in college, I lived in the South and watched SEC football all the time, he had some nice games his Senior year but never really performed against the top SEC temas and no one was hyping him up until the ND game where he just out threw the coverage and let his track star WRs get the ball

Pro QBs who are lazy, kinda dumb, lack leadership and get fat usually dont suceed, dont know why this is so hard to understand

 

[Liquidrob]

They are drunk with hate for some reason. I don't know why it's so outlandish that we aren't ready to give up on a #1 overall pick who has shown steady progress in only 16 games as a starter with THE worst group of receivers in the NFL.

funny how these crappy QBs always have the worst WRs, kind of like the Mike Vick arguements back in the day

I'm not saying the Raiders WRs are good, but it always seems to work that way...

 

[Hasselbeck]

All you Raider fans post your predictions to what you think Russell will do this year.

500 for 501 (someone will drop a pass that should have been caught), 75 TD, 0 INT

 

[Hasselbeck]

Who had worse WRs than the Raiders last year Rob?

Seattle.

Next question.

 

[Liquidrob]

Who had worse WRs than the Raiders last year Rob? This time it's actually a fact.

Zach Miller was good, he could get open. Guess what, Russell found him. Miller put up yards.

thats not my point, always seems like this crappy non-accurate QBs have the 'worst' WRs in the league

I dont know if they are the worst in the league, tough to judge with a crappy QB

 

[Tailback U]

thats not my point, always seems like this crappy non-accurate QBs have the 'worst' WRs in the league

I dont know if they are the worst in the league, tough to judge with a crappy QB

I thought you were a Raiders fan?

You can't argue that the Raiders had the worst wide receivers in the league. Not only did they start two rookies at the wide out spots, but I'm willing to bet most of the guys on this forum don't even know what colleges they went to off the top of their heads.

Bottom line, JR showed improvement toward the end of the season.

Week 15 Vs. New England - 17/32, 242 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT.
Week 16 Vs. Houston - 18/25, 236 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT.
Week 17 Vs. Tampa Bay - 14/21, 148 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT.

By no means stellar but definitely an improvement over the first half of the season. If he can put up those type of games on a consistent basis then I have no problem with him being the Raiders starting QB for a long, long time.

The Raiders need to build around JR to help him and they've started doing that with a strong running game and an improving defense.

As for a prediction on JR's 2009 stats, I'll say something like:

Just under 60% completion, 3000 passing yards, 15 TD, 10 INT.

All I want is for him to take care of the football and raise his completion percentage quite a bit. Oakland will lean on the running game so I'm hoping JR won't be put into many situations where he has to pass over 30 times a game.

 

[Liquidrob]

I am not a fan of any team, thats for kids

I like following teams that are in the area I live because thats what all the sports talk is usually about, I would like the Raiders to be better so I can watch some good football, but they are brutal and I dont see JR being any good

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Thats the beauty of being a young QB in the NFL...

You basically get a free pass to suck for a few years, and any decent performances during that time are viewed as "showing promise" and "improvement"...until their ass is unemployed after about 5 years.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Look at the WR's Tom Brady won Superbowls with.

 

[FirstTimer]

They are drunk with hate for some reason. I don't know why it's so outlandish that we aren't ready to give up on a #1 overall pick who has shown steady progress in only 16 games as a starter with THE worst group of receivers in the NFL.

Bears WR suckiness>>>>>>>>>>>Raiders WR suckiness.

 

[FirstTimer]

Russell sat his first year in part because he missed training camp and because they didn't want him taking shots behind that poor offensive line and turn out like David Carr. Get a clue people.

Russell haters are throwing around really weak arguments right now.

They are drunk with hate for some reason. I don't know why it's so outlandish that we aren't ready to give up on a #1 overall pick who has shown steady progress in only 16 games as a starter with THE worst group of receivers in the NFL.

I love this. The typical "you don't have confidence in the guy so you are just a hater" line

Maybe we just don't think Russell is all that great. That's not hating. It's called player evaluation.

I love the "weak argument" BS too. Are you disagreeing with anything inparticular? Are disagreeing Russel has accuracy issues, that he has weight/lazy issues, that he has mental issues with grasping the position? What exactly is "weak". Everything being said about Russell now in here were the same concerns that teams had about him coming out.

Who had worse WRs than the Raiders last year Rob? This time it's actually a fact.

Zach Miller was good, he could get open. Guess what, Russell found him. Miller put up yards.

The Bears. Our #1 WR isn't even a true WR. Our #2 WR was a converted AFL WR/CB. Most NFL pundits were calling the Bears WR corps the worst they have seen in decades. Our leading WR's had this in yardage/TD's: Devin Hester 665yds/3TD's, RASHIED DAVIS 445yds/2TD's, BRANDON LLOYD 364yds/2TD's, Marty Booker 211yds/2TD's

Seattle.

Next question.

Chicago Disagrees. Hesters best plays all eyar were when he got tangled up on deep routes and got PI calls.

 

[Senser81]

And what is your point then? Are you arguing that Russell sucked in college or that he was in good in college? Do you even know what you are arguing?

You seem like a somewhat intelligent person, so I am amazed that you still don't understand my point. First, one would expect a #1 overall pick to have 'good' college stats. Second, Russell had good stats his senior year, but nothing special. Third, if you are still using college stats to justify a 3rd year NFL player's position, then that should indicate a problem.

LOL at "do you even know what you are arguing?" I cannot comprehend how a person as clueless as yourself could be questioning MY intelligence. I think I've made myself clear...I honestly cannot frame my argument in simpler terms. Its not my fault that on top of your retardation, you are also a cumfart.

Do you not understand that you judge a player based on his game play and nothing else? You don't judge a player based on the fact that he has been in the league for 2 years now, you judge him based on how he has played in the number of games that he has played in. What don't you understand about this?

Do you understand that NOT PLAYING is also an indication of a player's ability? Do you seriously think that Jim Sorgi is better than Peyton Manning, but we just aren't aware of it because Sorgi never plays? Do you think that Garrett Wolfe is the best RB in the NFL? I am stunned at the idiocy of your statement.

Furthermore, my point remains (as usual) that at least the Niners didn't waste time with Alex Smith. They played him, he couldn't hack it, and they moved on. Has nothing to do with JAMARCUS RUSSELL NOT STARTING. I don't understand how one effects the other. If the Raiders are going to slowly bring Russell along (because of Russell's own shortcomings), and they are going to accept Russell having 3 mediocre games a year along with 13 crappy games, then THEY ARE GOING TO WASTE TOO MUCH TIME WITH RUSSELL. See how its different than what the Niners did? See how time doesn't come to a stop when Russell doesn't play? Time moves on even though Russell might be on the sideline. The Raiders season doesn't go into 'carbonite freezing' just because Russell is too stupid to learn the playbook. The team still has to play.

God, this is ridiculous!

 

[FirstTimer]

I would have taken Devin Hester over every single receiver the Raiders had except Miller who was actually a TE.

And I would take your 2-4 over our 2-4. So as a whole the Bears were worse.

 

[Senser81]

Rashied Davis is better than anything the Raiders had.

Every time I think you've said the dumbest thing you'll ever say in your lifetime, you say something even worse 10 minutes later!

 

[FirstTimer]

Rashied Davis is better than anything the Raiders had.

No he's not. Ronald Curry has had a better pro career than Davis. And that's not saying much. Rashied Davis is a converted CB. Marginal true WR's>>>>Converted AFL CB's.

Our top two WR's aren't even true WR's. They are undersized converted return men and defensive backs. At least Oakland can argue they have true WR's lining up each play.

Olsen and Clark are good options while OAK only had Zach Miller at the TE position and 8 out of 10 plays he had to be kept in to pass block.

Odd. I thought those guys were TE's. I was talking about WR's. Position change in Madden perhaps?

But no one here would know that since they don't watch OAK.

Satellite TV>>>You.

Yes I watched Oakland last year. I actually don't dislike Oakland at all. Al Davis is a quack but Oakland is one team from the AFC I follow.

The rest of the team could never get open. Once in a while Johnnie Lee Higgins would get open, Russell would hit him and he'd get 60 yards. Other than that, literally every throw Russell had to put it where the WR was the only one who could catch it and they would obviously never make a play.

Sounds a lot like Kyle Orton.... So STFU as if Russell was the only one with a problem.

I think you guys honestly believe Russell has WRs prancing around in the endzone uncovered, playing a game of cards and he's throwing the ball into the stands.

No. That's not what we said at all. In fact His accuracy issues have been well documented since his college days and as recently as at the recent minicamp where he looked sloppy.

Sorry if it's a stretch to say a guy with a career 53.9% completetion percentage MAY have a few accuracy issues.

As for him being overweight, wow.

Speaks to laziness not so much a prototypical body. Way to miss the point. No one is saying he has to look like Atlas, but at the same time weight issues raises committment concerns to how serious he is about keeping himself in shape and performing at an optimal level. Way to miss that point.

Or maybe Brady Quinn. Boy he's successful.

So Brady Quinn's lack of success gives JR an excuse to be bad?

Joe Flacco put up close to the same numbers on a team that is infinitely better than OAK in every facet of the game and he gets no criticism.

Actually he does. Plus Flacco actually demonstrated some accuracy and Flacco was a freaking rookie. JR was a 2nd year player so the critique would be a little different.

I like how JR gets a pass because of a rookie's QB performance and b/c Brady Quinn is jacked but hasn't done anything in the NFL either.

If you watched every game you would see how silly this all is. A rookie starter in that situation would not succeed, period.

JR wasn't a rookie so your point is moot.

The situation is different this year. Improved Oline, added WRs. A year of experience under his belt. Garcia mentoring him. If he doesn't improve this season then I will be on the bandwagon with you guys.

You could have said the same thing last year minus Garcia there to "mentor him". LOL at that. Garcia isn't there to mentor him. He's there to win the job. That's clear.

 

[Senser81]

I would still trade for your WR's. With the exception of Bey. I want to see what he can do first before I judge.

WTF? Can you even name the Bears WRs?

 

[FirstTimer]

I would still trade for your WR's. .

It appears Al Davis' idiocy is contagious.

 

[FirstTimer]

Honestly no, but after watching Oakland's last year anything has to be better than that shit. None of them could catch, run routes, or anything needed to be successful.

So you just basically admitted your own ignorance.