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Ryan Braun wins appeal of positive test for PEDs. Gob rejoices, MM still banned

Timing issues have been debunked by every credible scientist that has commented on this story. Sorry, but that means nothing.

Besides, what do you expect Narveson to say? He's not only Braun's teammate, but he's also the union rep!
 
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Please, can we wait for official word from the arbitrator? Protocol, seals, Greg Jennings....

How about waiting to hear from MLB if they decide to take legal action to get the Arbitrator's decision reversed? Wouldn't that make sense. If MLB has the evidence to show that the sample is still usable, wouldn't you think they would take things to the next step? I would. And I expect them to do just that. So wouldn't it be prudent to wait to see what the outcome is after that?

If MLB doesn't try to reverse the Arbitrators decision, then they just don't have the evidence to overturn it.

Do you not understand "innocent until proven guilty" or how important that is to the system, even a drug testing system?
 
Wow, Braun just can't let it go.
Look Braun's scummer lawyer going after Laurenzi after Laurenzi made his statement:

"based on the evidence and the plain meaning of the words in baseball's joint drug program,"

Did we really need that? You got your guy off, on the bolded technicality, now leave this poor man alone. He had a right to defend himself.

And how fucking smug is that statement? It makes you want to smack the lawyer and Braun.

Don't you want to know what the evidence was that was presented to the Arbitrator, or what the "words in baseball's joint drug program" say about the issue? Aren't these things important? I would love to know the details so that I can create a knowledgeable view on this. Waiting for the actual, factual information on why the ruling was made is not a bad thing to do.
 
How about waiting to hear from MLB if they decide to take legal action to get the Arbitrator's decision reversed? Wouldn't that make sense. If MLB has the evidence to show that the sample is still usable, wouldn't you think they would take things to the next step? I would. And I expect them to do just that. So wouldn't it be prudent to wait to see what the outcome is after that?

If MLB doesn't try to reverse the Arbitrators decision, then they just don't have the evidence to overturn it.

Do you not understand "innocent until proven guilty" or how important that is to the system, even a drug testing system?

Do you not understand legal loopholes? Because that's what we have here, even Braun's attorney admits as much in the bolded part of his statement when he talked about "plain meaning of words" in the policy.

I understand you happen to be a very literal guy who is only interested in black & white laws/policy and possess no critical thought, so let me read between those lines for you...

Braun's lawyer is essentially admitting he beat a loophole and exploited the wording in the policy to get his client off. Do you at least admit that? And if you do, do you actually accept that, and celebrate it as successful due process? Because reasonable people see through legal technicalities and call bullshit when they see it. But based on your previous OJ post, you seem like one of these people who cling to the law, no matter what, even when the law is wrong.

Formulate an original thought, man. See the obvious here.
 
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How about waiting to hear from MLB if they decide to take legal action to get the Arbitrator's decision reversed? Wouldn't that make sense. If MLB has the evidence to show that the sample is still usable, wouldn't you think they would take things to the next step? I would. And I expect them to do just that. So wouldn't it be prudent to wait to see what the outcome is after that?

If MLB doesn't try to reverse the Arbitrators decision, then they just don't have the evidence to overturn it.

Do you not understand "innocent until proven guilty" or how important that is to the system, even a drug testing system?

This is not a jury of our peers. In baseball, it is guilty until proven innocent.
 
Do you not understand legal loopholes?

Sure I do. If there is a loop hole, then F'n close it. If it's a loophole, MLB can get the legal team together and prove that it's badly worded and opens a loophole and if they can prove that, they can have the document amended. But someone originally put that wording in their to protect the evidence and the innocent. Until then, we can only have "the opinion" that it's a loophole. An opinion that I may or may not at the moment share.

Because that's what we have here, even Braun's attorney admits as much in the bolded part of his statement when he talked about "plain meaning of words" in the policy.

I would like to know exactly what words in the document he is talking about are, and after that listen to why the words are incorrect.

I understand you happen to be a very literal guy who is only interested in black & white laws/policy and possess no critical thought.

The bold is just you PMSing again throwing out insults. I have opinions that may or may not be far from yours. But I am literal because "reading between the lines" requires assumptions. And assumptions increase error. I'm cautious so that I don't unjustly accuse an innocent person, even if I believe they are guilty.

Braun's lawyer is essentially admitting he beat a loophole and exploited the wording in the policy to get his client off. Do you at least admit that?

I don't admit that. I admit that it is VERY, VERY, VERY POSSIBLE, and that I would not at all be surprised by it. I'm cynical/skeptical of players and performance enhancing drugs. Players, especially baseball, have made me that way.

And if you do, do you actually accept that, and celebrate it as successful due process?

If it's proven that to be the case, then I accept that due process NEEDS TO BE AMENDED. That's much different than accepting it as "due process has occurred". If the process does not get amended, you have to question if it's really a loophole. In this case, I would expect MLB to prove that the process needs to be amended and to even try and get the Arbitrators decision reversed. I've said that a couple of times already. I sure would hope that something is done to prevent this from happening again.

Because reasonable people see through legal technicalities and call bullshit when they see it. But based on your previous OJ post, you seem like one of these people who cling to the law, no matter what, even when the law is wrong.

Reasonable people realize that they are fallible and don't state things as fact until they are sure it is fact. Waiting for more information is never a bad thing. And letting the process play out can get you the most accurate info. If MLB does take this further, and I expect them to, and believe they should, we will hear from the experts in an official/legal capacity on why the sample should still be used as evidence, and why the original document needs to be amended. We are likely to see stuff similar to what you posted on the science of urine samples/testing and the seals that are used during this, if MLB takes things to the next step. And I would not be surprised if the ruling is overturned.

Formulate an original thought, man. See the obvious here.

I formulate original thoughts, or thoughts based on info I get. I'm just cautious about accusing someone. I'll let the process play out.

You did throw a PMS shot in their, but at least you asked me good questions in this post. You may not agree with my answers, but at least they were good question.
 
Why do all you jackasses care so much?

A blatant cheater is getting off scott free. MLB's farce of a drug testing program may as well be run by Vince McMahon.

Then they'll come out and argue otherwise. If MLB wants the superstars on roids, just say it. We're adults.
 
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Why do all you jackasses care so much?

I think a better question, is why are the Brewers fans so defensive about it?

I mean, it makes you guys look terrible when you defend him, because he couldn't possibly be more guilty. So it looks like you are not only in denial, but also pretty dense to believe the wacky, unrealistic fairy tale that he laid out last Friday.

There are players on every team doing this shit, star players, scrubs, everybody. Your guy got popped. In mid-July when he's drilling doubles in the gap, it won't matter and you won't care. And next time, it will be somebody else's guy. And when it's Votto or Kemp or Verlander getting popped, you can't say shit now and you have to buy into whatever lame excuse they decide come up with.

We had McGwire not wanting to talk about the past, Palmeiro waving his finger at congress, Clemens lying in a court room, and now we have Braun's loophole. It is what it is. These guys do whatever it takes to protect their reputations. I was willing to hear the guy out, but the story and the science just don't add up.
 
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And personally, I don't even care that Braun did whatever he did, intentional or otherwise. Because like I said, I think baseball is still dirty, and I think athletes will always be ahead of testing.

My biggest gripe with Braun, is how he stood up there and attacked MLB, attacked this poor guy who did nothing wrong ("we learned things about the collector", "we dont know where the sample was during the 44 hour gap", etc etc, all appear to be lies, all appear to be things that according to sources never came up in the appeal and were just for public consumption/PR), and has caused people once again to be very distrustful of the testing, which by all accounts is solid testing done by the best people in the world.

I mean, you got off, your lawyer did what you paid him to do, just say you are happy with the appeal working out, say you don't know how the sample came up dirty, and move on. That 40 minute grandstanding diatribe really rubbed me the wrong way.
 
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I understand you and all the other moralists are going to sit up on your cyber soap boxes and moralize on here for everyone, but I don't give a fuck. I think guys like Woy are mostly just pissed off that the best player in the NL Central won't be suspended 50 games. In the end it's not like the guy got caught with a syringe in his ass and it's not like the guy has noticeable extra bulk in between seasons (see Jason Giambi). And it's not like there has been a spike in performance between his Rookie of the Year season and his MVP season.

Keep moralizing for us here. It doesn't matter. The NL MVP will be in the lineup on opening day against Cardinals.

(EDITED - to whoever edited Colonel Angus's post, cut the shit guys, just hit the groan button and move on)
 
I understand you and all the other moralists are going to sit up on your cyber soap boxes and moralize on here for everyone, but I don't give a fuck. I think guys like Woy are mostly just pissed off that the best player in the NL Central won't be suspended 50 games. In the end it's not like the guy got caught with a syringe in his ass and it's not like the guy has noticeable extra bulk in between seasons (see Jason Giambi). And it's not like there has been a spike in performance between his Rookie of the Year season and his MVP season.

Keep moralizing for us here. It doesn't matter. The NL MVP will be in the lineup on opening day against Cardinals.

Edit-I forgot to mention that I am a huge faggot, and really don't know shit about anything sports related. My Parents don't have any pictures of me in our house because I never amounted to anything. To sum it up I am a huge fucking zero.

That's cute guys. Just keep up the great work you do with this great website.

This was the stupidest post I've seen in a while. What are you even talking about? Most, if not all, of the posts against Braun have been from fans of a number of different teams and not NEARLY as zealous as the Brewers fan reaction has been.

Also, the point isn't about morality. This is a fucking pro sport we're talking about here. We check morality at the door. Braun did it, he got off on a technicality, he isn't suspended. No one is saying Braun is the devil because of that, just that not guilty isn't always innocent.

Finally, EL-OH-EL at the point about ANY Cardinals fan giving 2 shits about how much Braun is or isn't suspended. Man, that sweet looking NL MVP award did WONDERS in the NLCS when it mattered! Something tells me if Dotel had to go back and do it all over again, he'd rather see Ryan Braun than just about any player in a Brewers uniform up at the plate in the NLCS.
 
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This was the stupidest post I've seen in a while. What are you even talking about? Most, if not all, of the posts against Braun have been from fans of a number of different teams and not NEARLY as zealous as the Brewers fan reaction has been.

Also, the point isn't about morality. This is a fucking pro sport we're talking about here. We check morality at the door. Braun did it, he got off on a technicality, he isn't suspended. No one is saying Braun is the devil because of that, just that not guilty isn't always innocent.

Finally, EL-OH-EL at the point about ANY Cardinals fan giving 2 shits about how much Braun is or isn't suspended. Man, that sweet looking NL MVP award did WONDERS in the NLCS when it mattered! Something tells me if Dotel had to go back and do it all over again, he'd rather see Ryan Braun than just about any player in a Brewers uniform up at the plate in the NLCS.

Braun still hit .333 in the playoffs against the Cardinals. :bazookajones:
 
I'll never understand posts like these. But then, I don't understand most of the reactions of Brewer's fans in this thread.

I will never understand the need to fight so hard to defend athletes in situations like these.

I understand that it stings a little to see one of your favorite players get popped, but remember, Ryan Braun the person has no loyalty to you and would sign with the Cubs if they offered him a dollar more.

Root for the player, sure. But when the man fucks up, why cant we bury the homer, and just call it like it is?
 
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Reactions: Woy
I think guys like Woy are mostly just pissed off that the best player in the NL Central won't be suspended 50 games.

No, I'm pissed off about it because of the reasons Warner has mentioned all through this thread. I couldn't care less about Braun not being suspended for 50 games - I was confident from the beginning that we are going to be better than Milwaukee, with or without Braun. Him not being suspended just makes the Cards/Reds/Brewers fight for the Central that much better.

The defending by Brewers fans and Bucky in here reminds me of Pittsburgh sports fans I deal with on a daily basis, which brings my annoyance of Braun's actions to another level. On a personal level and to put myself (sort of) in you guys' shoes - I love Mark McGwire still, but can admit and be disappointed in his actions when dealing with PEDs. You guys can still be a fan of the guy, obviously, but don't have to blindly defend when he fucks up.

All the Brewers fans in here are taking L's, just like Braun was taking L's against Dotel and the rest of the Cardinals in last year's NLCS. /typicaldouchebagrebuttalpunchline
 
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