Ryan Braun wins appeal of positive test for PEDs. Gob rejoices, MM still banned

[kyhadley]

I understand what tamper-proof means.



It doesn't have to be the same container.

So the collector decided to duplicate all three seals and containers, transfer the contents of the container to the new ones, while throwing in a dash of synthetic testosterone just to stick it to Braun? How is that a more likely scenario?

All we are really arguing here (correct me if I'm wrong W2D) is that it is very highly improbable that the containers were tampered with (K.I.S.S.), meaning it is Braun's pure dirty piss in the container. Thats it. We don't care whether the piss is deemed usable or not by the policy in place.

If the policy says that it can't sit for 44 hours (and this is the first time its ever been brought up before) then fine, the arbitrator is forced to rule the sample "unusable" and Braun gets off by a "deserved" technicality. But that does not change the results of the test that in all likelihood is completely accurate.

And of course the policy needs to be amended to prevent this from happening again.

 

[Fappin Raptor]

Holy shit, bucky. Holy shit.

 

[EmpireWF]

Funny that a blatant cheater used the system to avoid punishment.

MLB's testing system has no teeth until proven otherwise.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Warner2Bruce still wants to incarcerate Casey Anthony, so, his attempts to bring down Braun are not surprising.

He loves to bring down the not guilty.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I understand what tamper-proof means.



It doesn't have to be the same container.

Lol.

The bottom line is, IF proper protocol wasn't followed, the evidence becomes unusable. I'm waiting to find out if the evidence will actually be usable or not. So far, the Arbitrator says no. And he's the most credible person so far that has made any kind of official ruling. Now lets see if some other credible entity proves the Arbitrator was wrong in his ruling.

And I am waiting for the Arbitrators report to get more details on WHY he considered the evidence unusable.

I also want to hear form MLB on whether protocol was actually broken or not. And MLB saying that they've done things this way for years is not the same thing as actually following the legal protocol.

Things NEED to be tightened up so that this CANNOT happen again.

Rules need to be outlined and followed so that innocent people don't get falsely convicted. That's why they have these strict protocols.

And lol at you "waiting for a more credible source thanthe arbitrator" to tell you if the sample is usable or not.

The lab deemed it usable, and that should be enough. Plus I gave you quotes from experts, various laws and policies from other states, and I even linked a video from anothe expert on the field. All of these sources are more credible than the arbitrator, who really is just a fucking lawyer whose job it is to interpret policy. Worst case he blew it, best case he's waving common sense and ruling based on shitty interpretation.

bucky, you couldnt be more off base. "It could be a different cup". Ok. Next you'll be tellkng us how the lab techs could have pissed in the cup. The moon landing could have been staged, too. 9/11 could have never happened. Elvis could be alive. Could could could. How far do you want to take this?

 

[citizenerased]

The Enron guy is in Prison, nobody saw that coming. I'll wait. Hard to believe things happen all the time.

Just had to bring you up on that point. Heaps of people saw Enron coming, hence the reason smart people got rich by shorting Enron stock and printing money when the inevitable collapse happened.

Although Enron is a pretty good analogy for your whole stance on this, blissfully living in ignorance. Ignore the facts, ignore the fact this stock price and these revenue streams are impossible, ignore the fact that it impossible for what Braun trying to claim what happened to have happened, just live the dream.

 

[bucky]

So the collector decided to duplicate all three seals and containers, transfer the contents of the container to the new ones, while throwing in a dash of synthetic testosterone just to stick it to Braun? How is that a more likely scenario?.

The bold is irrelevant. What's relevant is "was policy followed?". If policy isn't followed, then the sample has to be considered unusable. Policy's are put in place to protect the evidence and protect the innocent from conviction.

All we are really arguing here (correct me if I'm wrong W2D) is that it is very highly improbable that the containers were tampered with (K.I.S.S.), meaning it is Braun's pure dirty piss in the container. Thats it. We don't care whether the piss is deemed usable or not by the policy in place.

And you have to care if the evidence is deemed usable or not. Ignoring proper handling of evidence leaves open the possibility of mistakes to happen. We have to care how evidence is handled and if proper procedure is adhered to.

If the policy says that it can't sit for 44 hours (and this is the first time its ever been brought up before) then fine, the arbitrator is forced to rule the sample "unusable" and Braun gets off by a "deserved" technicality. But that does not change the results of the test that in all likelihood is completely accurate.

And we can't assume the results are accurate if policy wasn't followed. "More likely" doesn't matter at that point.

And of course the policy needs to be amended to prevent this from happening again.

BINGO.

I'm still waiting for more info to see if the Arbitrator's decision will get reversed.

 

[EmpireWF]

What makes you think "policy wasn't followed?"

 

[bucky]

And lol at you "waiting for a more credible source thanthe arbitrator" to tell you if the sample is usable or not.

Because that's the reasonable thing to do.

The lab deemed it usable, and that should be enough. Plus I gave you quotes from experts, various laws and policies from other states, and I even linked a video from anothe expert on the field. All of these sources are more credible than the arbitrator, who really is just a fucking lawyer whose job it is to interpret policy. Worst case he blew it, best case he's waving common sense and ruling based on shitty interpretation.

And none of your sources answered the question I'm looking to have answered. Was correct and proper policy for followed for protecting the evidence. Still waiting for that answer. According to the Arbitrator it wasn't. All you've quoted is scientists stating that the amount of time the evidence sat didn't effect it and that it was sealed. That doesn't answer what I'm waiting to hear.

bucky, you couldnt be more off base. "It could be a different cup". Ok. Next you'll be tellkng us how the lab techs could have pissed in the cup. The moon landing could have been staged, too. 9/11 could have never happened. Elvis could be alive. Could could could. How far do you want to take this?

Really? I couldn't be more off base saying that policy is put in place for a reason, to protect the evidence and the innocent? And that if proper policy is not followed the evidence has to be considered unusable? Really? That's WAY OFF BASE?

 

[bucky]

What makes you think "policy wasn't followed?"

The Arbitrators ruling. Wasn't his ruling based on proper handling policy? And so far, he is the most credible person that has made an official ruling on this. But I'm still waiting for more to come. If MLB can show why the Arbitrator's ruling was incorrect.

 

[bucky]

Warner2Bruce still wants to incarcerate Casey Anthony, so, his attempts to bring down Braun are not surprising.

He loves to bring down the not guilty.

I love this. It's probably much more accurate than saying "the innocent".

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The Arbitrators ruling. Wasn't his ruling based on proper handling policy? And so far, he is the most credible person that has made an official ruling on this. But I'm still waiting for more to come. If MLB can show why the Arbitrator's ruling was incorrect.

The arbitrator is not nearly as credible as the laundry list of experts I provided you who universally agree on the time issue. He likely knows a fraction of what the professionals in this field know. He's just a lawyer who interprets wording of the contract.

Why are hung up on this stupid policy. The policy in this case is irrelevant, because even if there is a time policy, it shouldn't matter in this case because the experts UNIVERSALLY AGREE than there is no way the sample was tampered with, and that it is impossible for time to corrupt the sample. And i've shown you precedent that chain of custody excuses don't fly in court when it comes to drug screenings, unless there is proof of tampering...which there is none of in this case.

No need to wait for the arbitrator report, because he is going to cite the 44 hours, and based on your posts, you are going to stand behind that. And that's absurd considering what we know now about the test.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

And you have to care if the evidence is deemed usable or not. Ignoring proper handling of evidence leaves open the possibility of mistakes to happen. We have to care how evidence is handled and if proper procedure is adhered to.

Every expert in the field has already said it was handled properly, INCLUDING THE LAB!!

There is no smoking gun, join the rest of us in reality.

 

[bucky]

The arbitrator is not nearly as credible as the laundry list of experts I provided you who universally agree on the time issue. He likely knows a fraction of what the professionals in this field know. He's just a lawyer who interprets wording of the contract.

Why are hung up on this stupid policy. The policy in this case is irrelevant, because even if there is a time policy, it shouldn't matter in this case because the experts UNIVERSALLY AGREE than there is no way the sample was tampered with, and that it is impossible for time to corrupt the sample. And i've shown you precedent that chain of custody excuses don't fly in court when it comes to drug screenings, unless there is proof of tampering...which there is none of in this case.

No need to wait for the arbitrator report, because he is going to cite the 44 hours, and based on your posts, you are going to stand behind that. And that's absurd considering what we know now about the test.

I'm going to stand behind whatever the wording of the contract says, until the contract is deemed incorrect and amended. The contract had to have been written or overseen by experts in the field. The contract, and policy written in the contract, was put in place for a reason. We have to follow what the specific rules in that contract say. If the contract isn't followed, then the evidence should not be used. The policy in this case is completely relevant. It's why the Arbitrator ruled the way he did. It is extremely relevant in this case.

 

[Fappin Raptor]

The glove don't fit. :kobe:

 

[bucky]

The glove don't fit. :kobe:

That's exactly right. Except it's more like when the officer was questioned about how the blood evidence was handled. Mark Furman was it? If evidence was handled better, that case may have had a different outcome. And the purpose of those policy's is to protect the evidence and the innocent. These things are vital to the system. O.J may have gotten lucky. Braun may have gotten lucky.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Dino Laurenzi Jr is also the specimen collector for the Cubs, and the Cubs love the guy:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/base...n-braun-urine-collector-endorsed-by-cubs.html

‘‘Just from knowing Dino the three years I’ve been here, he’s been nothing but professional,’’ Cubs infielder Jeff Baker said. ‘‘He’s been very, very thorough. I have no concerns and no qualms.’’

Reed Johnson: ‘‘You see them seal it, and the stickers they put all over everything, and then make sure that your number matches up to the number that’s on your sample, slash your case, slash your other case that the case goes in. … If you witnessed it firsthand and saw all the detail that goes into making sure things are safe as far as not having a false positive or anything like that, you wouldn’t be too worried about it as a player.’’

‘‘I’m not worried that it’s the same guy,’’ outfielder Alfonso Soriano said, backing Johnson’s thoughts on the seals and safeguards involved in the process. ‘‘I’m not worried because I know what I take. It doesn’t matter who takes the sample. If you don’t take nothing, he can take [the specimen] home for a week, and nothing will come out.’’

‘‘There’s been some guys coming up from the minor leagues that you might be concerned about, but Dino, the way he carries himself professionally, the way he carries himself personally — it’s unfortunate that his name’s out there involved [this way].

‘‘I have no problems taking a drug test with him. None.’’

With everything that has come out, you'd have to be nuts not to trust this collector. He's extremely credible. There is no way he fucked with Braun's sample. Didn't happen.

 

[Fappin Raptor]

Please, can we wait for official word from the arbitrator? Protocol, seals, Greg Jennings....

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Wow, Braun just can't let it go.

Look Braun's scummer lawyer going after Laurenzi after Laurenzi made his statement:

Braun's attorney, David Cornwell, issued a statement on Thursday criticizing Laurenzi.

"Ryan Braun presented a winning defense in the forum that counted. The landmark decision in Ryan's favor was based on the evidence and the plain meaning of the words in baseball's joint drug program," Cornwell said in the statement. "The collector's attempt to re-litigate his conduct is inappropriate, and his efforts will only be persuasive to those who do not understand the evidence or the rules.

"Ryan Braun was properly vindicated. Both Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association should be applauded because their joint program worked."

Did we really need that? You got your guy off, on the bolded technicality, now leave this poor man alone. He had a right to defend himself.

And how fucking smug is that statement? It makes you want to smack the lawyer and Braun.

 

[Goober]

"If somebody mishandles a sample, that's not just a technicality, that's an error," Narveson said. "I don't know all of the details, so I don't want to comment too much. But put it this way: This isn't the first time we've had issues with the people [in charge of testing] in Milwaukee. There have been other issues with timing."

Braun isn't the only one with problems with this guy though either.
http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/ne...23&content_id=26813960&vkey=news_mil&c_id=mil