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Ryan Braun wins appeal of positive test for PEDs. Gob rejoices, MM still banned

Braun should be ashamed of himself for dragging this man through the mud and the shit this poor guy has had to go through.

According to his statement, as widely reported and speculated, taking the specimans home on weekend testing is not unusual and is part of the protocol. The guy did his job.

Braun was all "no comment" today. He wont talk anymore, he knows he buried himself. He would have been better off taking the suspension and giving the old "tainted supplement" excuse or something similar. What a disaster.
 
So now we know something about the collector.

Really doesn't mean much. Not really the issue.

So here you have Braun, because basically he has no other leg to stand on, killing this poor guy in this sham of a presser on Friday, burying him and insinuating that the guy fucked with the sample, and then Braun has THE BALLS to say "I was falsely accused, so I dont want to falsely accuse somebody else" when he just spent 30 fucking minutes passive aggressively finger pointing the guy! I mean, Braun really makes you sick in this situation.

Ironic, cause that's what you're doing here. We don't know what may or may not have happened. All we know is somebody F'd up.

So you have three seals that were not broken, and one of the best labs in the world that determined that the sample was in pristine condition when it arrived.

You have a sample with seals. You don't know if they are the original seals and if the original seals were broken or not.

Plus, the collector had two other samples with him all weekend of the two other players who were tested, so there goes the idea that he mishandled the samples anyway, because the others came up clean.

Doesn't mean anything other than the other two athletes could have used the same defense.

The entire Braun argument hinges on the idea that this man intentionally fucked with the sample (without breaking the seals). With no motive. And besides the fact that tampering with a sample is nearly impossible,
LOL. Ok, sure, that's plausible.

The argument is that protocol was not followed, so the sample has to be considered invalid.

Let's be real, nobody fucked with that sample, and Braun's argument that somebody could have fucked with the sample is preposterous and impossible to take seriously at this point.

No it's not impossible to take seriously. Protocols are put in place for a reason. If the protocols are not followed, things can be legitimately questioned.

the collectively bargained policy is a joke that needs to be tightened up

You finally hit on something relevant.

And I LOL at you trashing on "conspiracy theory's". You're the one that was trying to discredit the arbitrator saying he only ruled in favor of the player so he doesn't look biased against the players.

You can act all internet tough guy all you want, trying to prove how much smarter you are than others, but to me you're just another anonymous internet message boarder trying to act tough and smart.

The arbitrator ruled that protocol wasn't adhered to. This here is the BIGGEST issue. Protocols are put in place to protect the integrity of the sample. If protocol is broken, the sample has to be considered potentially tainted. That tells me that the sample COULD potentially be tainted or they wouldn't have these protocols in the first place.

So the REAL question is "how did this happen"? Cause the one players quilt or innocence is now unprovable and irrelevant. Just to make things real clear for you, that is in no way saying that Braun is innocent, or that the Currier is guilty of anything other than not following correct protocol. It's just saying that according to the arbitrator, protocol was broken, and it leaves open the potential for the integrity of the sample to be questionable.

So now, either the arbitrator made a wrong ruling and didn't understand the MLB drug testing documents (or according to you, has no integrity and made a ruling purely on professional image), or the Currier messed up, or MLB didn't understand the drug testing documents and gave the Currier's bad instructions. But somewhere their was a breakdown that allowed this to happen and it needs to be tightened up. This is what I've been saying to you from post ONE. This in no way accuses the Currier of anything and it in no way says Braun didn't break the rules.

Then you say the Currier's break this protocol ALL THE TIME. So does that mean a lot of other athletes could use the same defense?

I'm far more concerned with the process and the breakdown than if one athlete is potentially guilty. Because that is all you have, that an athlete may potentially be guilty.
 
I will never understand why some people so vehemently defend athletes, particularly in a situation where those on the outside looking in ALL agree that the athlete is looking kind of douchie. Why do fans of a particular uniform design feel the need to trumpet a dude that doesn't give a shit about them?

Personally, I think this whole situation is pretty fucked, but I think it's crazy to act like Braun doesn't come out of this seeming like sort of an a-hole. But hey, if he's on your favorite team that's all that matters.
 
I will never understand why some people so vehemently defend athletes, particularly in a situation where those on the outside looking in ALL agree that the athlete is looking kind of douchie. Why do fans of a particular uniform design feel the need to trumpet a dude that doesn't give a shit about them?

Personally, I think this whole situation is pretty fucked, but I think it's crazy to act like Braun doesn't come out of this seeming like sort of an a-hole. But hey, if he's on your favorite team that's all that matters.

I stopped following baseball, and the Brewers many years ago. I'm not a Braun fan. I'm not a baseball fan anymore. I'm not vehemently defending the athlete, I'm just not vehemently attacking him.

Baseball, the MLB Players Association, the Currier F'd up. Never should have come to this. Protocol is broken, the sample needs to be thrown out. Now there is no way to prove whether he was guilty or not.

But I'm used to VSN posters going off the deep end. Got to love extreme opinions.
 
A bunch of stuff

bucky, you're lost

The arbitrator made a bad ruling, an AWFUL ruling, and he has some explaining to do. He, like you, clearly doesn't understand the testing process, how these tests work, or how impossible it is to tamper with the integrity of the seals. This is why MLB is talking about challenging the ruling in court, because the basis of the appeal is absurd.

There was no breakdown, that is Braun rhetoric that you are buying. The collector followed the same procedure he's been following since 2005. This is just a case of an arbitrator being dead wrong.

Here is your most ridiculous statement, and the one that proves you don't know shit and should probably get out of the thread:

bucky said:
You have a sample with seals. You don't know if they are the original seals and if the original seals were broken or not.

YES WE DO, BECAUSE THE PROFESSIONALS WHO DO THIS FOR A LIVING AT THE LAB CONFIRMED IT.

You sound ridiculous.

Have you ever been drug tested?

These aren't duct tape seals, these are tamper proof seals with watermarks that are numbered and can not be duplicated. Do some research, read some articles, because it's obvious you have no clue.


Again, if you or anybody else wants to tell me that this wasn't Braun's piss, then you need to give me motive and method, something the Braun side didn't even bother attempting to do. There is no motive, and the seals were never broken, so there is no method.

I mean, have some of you really convinced yourself that this guy was not only out to get Braun, but also pulled off this genius crime of not only bypassing the seals, but also naturally contaminating the samples? You really buy this? Really? You think this is possible? You honestly find Braun more credible than the specimen collector? I find that mind blowing.
 
This thread is so awful I want to just shut the forums off forever due to the utter ridiculous human thought that deserves to be banned from existence.


Fucking idiots can't separate "legal" from "truth"
 
I stopped following baseball, and the Brewers many years ago. I'm not a Braun fan. I'm not a baseball fan anymore. I'm not vehemently defending the athlete, I'm just not vehemently attacking him.

Baseball, the MLB Players Association, the Currier F'd up. Never should have come to this. Protocol is broken, the sample needs to be thrown out. Now there is no way to prove whether he was guilty or not.

But I'm used to VSN posters going off the deep end. Got to love extreme opinions.

Protocol wasn't broken, it's the same protocol that has been followed for years.

What was 'broken' here, was a high priced lawyer convincing the arbitrator that protocol was broken due to weak language in the collective bargaining agreement.

I did some research. The Nevada State Athletic Commission does not accept chain of custody breaks as a viable excuse unless there is legitimate evidence of tampering. Same goes for the state of New Jersey concerning drug testing for state employees. A prosecutor from New Jersey was on the radio the other day talking about how in thousands of appeals for supposed breaks in custody, he's only seen one overturned, and that was due to clear cut tampering. There is no evidence of any tampering with Braun, only a slimy lawyer picking apart language in a contract.

Seems clear to me that MLB is off the hook, the collector is off the hook, and this is now a case of an arbitrator being completely lost and making a horrible ruling. If MLB pursues this is court and can show precedent, I think they would win. This type of ruling that the arbitrator made was highly unusual.
 
"Given the lateness of the hour that I completed my collections, there was no FedEx office located within 50 miles of Miller Park that would ship packages that day or Sunday. Therefore, the earliest that the specimens could be shipped was Monday, October 3. In that circumstance, CDT has instructed collectors since I began in 2005 that they should safeguard the samples in their homes until FedEx is able to immediately ship the sample to the laboratory, rather than having the samples sit for one day or more at a local FedEx office. The protocol has been in place since 2005 when I started with CDT and there have been other occasions when I have had to store samples in my home for at least one day, all without incident.

Again, no break in protocol, just a horrible ruling.

Braun's entire argument is that the sample went to the guys house. Well, that's how they do things. It safer in the hands of a professional than on a shelf at FedEx.


EmpireWF said:
Braun is a cheat and a liar.

Indisputable.

Braun may very well not even think he took anything, it may very well have been unintentional, but his testosterone level was 20/1, and that's all that matters.
 
The arbitrator made a bad ruling, an AWFUL ruling, and he has some explaining to do. He, like you, clearly doesn't understand the testing process, how these tests work, or how impossible it is to tamper with the integrity of the seals. This is why MLB is talking about challenging the ruling in court, because the basis of the appeal is absurd.

The bold is entirely possible. But right now, I give the arbitrator a lot more credibility than some guy on an anonymous message board. And until MLB comes out with something official, confirmed by impartial lawyers, I'm believing the arbitrator, though I'm anxious to hear from MLB. This is one of the things I mentioned as a possibility in the post before my last one. Either the arbitrator didn't understand what the correct protocol was, or MLB and the Currier didn't. I'm waiting to hear more before making accusations. You can call that lost if you want to. I call it common sense.

There was no breakdown, that is Braun rhetoric that you are buying. The collector followed the same procedure he's been following since 2005. This is just a case of an arbitrator being dead wrong.

I'm not following Braun rehtoric, I haven't even paid attention to what he has to say. I'm going by the Arbitrator and what the Arbitrator has to say. To me he's a lot more credible than either you or Braun.

Here is your most ridiculous statement, and the one that proves you don't know shit and should probably get out of the thread:

What I've said is that protocols are put in place for a reason. If protocols are broken, the integrity of the evidence is questionable.

YES WE DO, BECAUSE THE PROFESSIONALS WHO DO THIS FOR A LIVING AT THE LAB CONFIRMED IT.

The arbitrator's are professional's and arbitrate these kinds of things all the time as well.

Have you ever been drug tested?

For jobs and security clearances.

Again, if you or anybody else wants to tell me that this wasn't Braun's piss, then you need to give me motive and method, something the Braun side didn't even bother attempting to do. There is no motive, and the seals were never broken, so there is no method.

Why? No we don't. You have to prove that it is. So far, the Arbitrator has thrown it out. If protocols were truly not adhered to, then it should be thrown out. The evidence then lacks credibility. Either the Arbitrator, the Currier, or MLB really F'd up. Things need to be tightened up so that this doesn't happen again.

I mean, have some of you really convinced yourself that this guy was not only out to get Braun, but also pulled off this genius crime of not only bypassing the seals, but also naturally contaminating the samples? You really buy this? Really? You think this is possible? You honestly find Braun more credible than the specimen collector? I find that mind blowing.

We're do you get that I or others are even insinuating that the Currier was out to get Braun. I thought I made it clear in an earlier post that I WAS NOT SAYING THAT. The integrity of evidence has to be kept at a high level. The evidence can't be questionable. That's why protocols are put in place. Any handling of evidence has a very strict protocol, especially criminal evidence. If the correct protocol isn't followed, the evidence can't be used.

And how extreme, and sensational to ask if I find Braun more credible than the specimen collector. Typical VSN straw man bullshit. What I find is the Arbitrator more credible, until I hear from credible sources on why the arbitrator was wrong. So I'm really anxious to hear from MLB.

Now tell me how and why that is such a ridiculous stance to take.
 
Again, no break in protocol, just a horrible ruling.

Let's wait and find out if protocol was broken or not. Just because MLB has been doing it that way for years doesn't mean they haven't been doing it incorrectly for years. Why would the arbitrator just flat out ignore what MLB and the NFLPA lawyers put in place as protocol. Maybe the Arbitrator did, but I'm not taking your word for it. I want someone to confirm what's correct from reading the actual legal documentation.

No matter what, things need to be cleared up so that this doesn't happen again.
 
Braun may very well not even think he took anything, it may very well have been unintentional, but his testosterone level was 20/1, and that's all that matters.

Even if Braun legitimately did not intentionally ingest anything to increase his levels, shouldn't he and his people be looking (in public fashion) to find out what supplements forced them to be so high?

Instead, he's said he's innocent of all charges, MLB, the testers are out to get him, blah blah blah.

We know he lied about the latter, why lie? Unless he's stupid, it's to cover something up.
 
Even if Braun legitimately did not intentionally ingest anything to increase his levels, shouldn't he and his people be looking (in public fashion) to find out what supplements forced them to be so high?

Instead, he's said he's innocent of all charges, MLB, the testers are out to get him, blah blah blah.

We know he lied about the latter, why lie? Unless he's stupid, it's to cover something up.

Curious....where did this information come from, or is it just an opinion of how you took his presser?
 
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