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Ryan Braun wins appeal of positive test for PEDs. Gob rejoices, MM still banned

Good piece here, separating the public rhetoric from what really went on in the hearing.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Ryan-Braun-suspension-appeal-Milwaukee-Brewers-analysis-022412

Rob Manfred, baseball’s executive vice president for labor relations, shot back later Friday with a statement in which he said, in part, “The extremely experienced collector in Mr. Braun’s case acted in a professional and appropriate manner.” Manfred said the employee’s actions were consistent with the guidelines of the collection agency — which is jointly retained by MLB and the players’ union.

Manfred acknowledged there were inconsistencies between the sport’s drug policy and the instructions of the independent agency. MLB and the union will clarify them now that Braun’s legal team discovered the loophole.

Manfred added that neither Braun nor the players’ union argued in the grievance process “that his sample had been tampered with or produced any evidence of tampering.” In other words, Braun’s camp used different rhetoric before the arbitrator than during Friday’s news conference.

In the hearing, it was about the time it took the collector to submit the sample.
 
“To raise it now is a PR move,” said Travis Tygart, chief executive officer of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, which has consulted with MLB on its testing program. “If that’s really the case (that the collector deliberately tampered with the sample), then we ought to open up a criminal investigation. That’s felonious assault.”

Tygart said the seal on Braun’s sample was intact, and that it’s “impossible” for sample to be contaminated without the seal being broken. Braun made no mention of over-the-counter supplements during the news conference — even though Tygart says a spiked supplement (when used by an unwitting player) is far more likely to cause a positive test than a deliberately tainted sample.

Braun said Friday the players’ union informed him the test result was “three times higher than any number in the history of drug testing,” without specifically mentioning the substance or measurement. ESPN reported Braun’s testosterone/epitestosterone ratio was 20-to-1. If true, Tygart said that result is “not off the charts but consistent with use or ingestion of testosterone.”

Like I said earlier, 20/1 isn't outrageous or unheard of.
 
We need to hear from the collector.

This poor guy might be getting dragged through the mud for following orders and protocol. Braun has some balls accusing (or insinuating) that the guy tampered with the sample. Pretty ironic.

Braun never said he tampered with it. Braun specifically said he was wrongly accused and when reporters asked if he felt the collector tampered with it, Braun said he wouldn't want someone else to be wrongly accused like he was.
 
:bazookajones:

 
AmhJQ7KCIAAsSh4.jpg
 
Jesus Christ over 50% of the vote came from just two states? Don't those people have anything better to do than to vote on Sportsnation polls?

The averages from the polls are formulated from votes from everywhere. Each state just displays the color of the majority vote for that particular state.
 
Jesus Christ over 50% of the vote came from just two states? Don't those people have anything better to do than to vote on Sportsnation polls?

And it shouldn't be a surprise anyways. If this happens to any other high-profile player, chances are the state of the team's biggest rival will vote that he did it and the home state of the player's team will plead innocence.
 
Anyway, the sample never left Braun's sight and was sealed in three places.

I haven't researched the process, but isn't a seal just a seal? Doesn't something have to be sealed? So why can't something be unsealed and then resealed? How would the testing lab even know if something had been resealed.

I also haven't read anything about this, except for this thread (been avoiding sports news ever since NYG's beat GB in the playoffs), but this thread also mentioned an offer for DNA testing and a B sample passing the test.

I'm not sure Braun's as guilty as you claim him to be. I'm also not sure he's as innocent as he claims to be.

If part of Braun's argument was "can you prove it's my sample" and MLB was unable to, then the process needs to be improved.

I'll wait for, and do see if any, actual evidence comes out before I jump off the fence.
 
Tygart said the seal on Braun’s sample was intact, and that it’s “impossible” for sample to be contaminated without the seal being broken.

So the seal must be broken to be tampered with. DUH. I still don't see how this means something that was sealed ONCE already, can't be resealed. Anybody with any knowledge of the process have and answer? I clearly don't have a clue on how the process works. Why is it impossible for something to be resealed?

I imagine signatures, including the players are on the seals (just guessing). What really makes a seal untamperable?
 
So the seal must be broken to be tampered with. DUH. I still don't see how this means something that was sealed ONCE already, can't be resealed. Anybody with any knowledge of the process have and answer? I clearly don't have a clue on how the process works. Why is it impossible for something to be resealed?

I imagine signatures, including the players are on the seals (just guessing). What really makes a seal untamperable?

There is no signature on the seal (to protect the players identity), just a printed ID# that the player signs off for on a separate document. In order to follow this wacky, improbable conspiracy theory, you would have to believe that the collector (or whoever is OUT TO GET BRAUN in this scenerio) had THREE MORE pre printed seals with the same ID#.

All three seals (sample, bag sample is placed in, box bag is placed in) are sealed up with the player present, then the player signs off on the ID#.

And again, when he lab receives the package, they must file a report on the quality of the seals. They lab reported that the seals were in "pristine" condition.

That was Braun's piss, and it was 20/1.
 
I haven't researched the process, but isn't a seal just a seal? Doesn't something have to be sealed? So why can't something be unsealed and then resealed? How would the testing lab even know if something had been resealed.

I also haven't read anything about this, except for this thread (been avoiding sports news ever since NYG's beat GB in the playoffs), but this thread also mentioned an offer for DNA testing and a B sample passing the test.

I'm not sure Braun's as guilty as you claim him to be. I'm also not sure he's as innocent as he claims to be.

If part of Braun's argument was "can you prove it's my sample" and MLB was unable to, then the process needs to be improved.

I'll wait for, and do see if any, actual evidence comes out before I jump off the fence.

Braun never argued this in his appeal. Braun never argued the science in his appeal. He argued the process, and argued that the sample sat in the collectors house for too long before it went to FedEx. That's it, and he won based on that fact, and the cloudy wording in the collective bargaining agreement .

His PR argument has been to insinuate that the sample could have been tampered with during the 44 hour period before it got to FedEx, which is pretty absurd and takes quite the leap of faith to buy into for people who have read up on how the process works. For whatever reason, there are people willing to buy into that nonsense.

I think Braun should have won the appeal based on the bullshit loophole, because technically he's right. But I also think it's pretty clear that he pissed dirty.
 
That was Braun's piss, and it was 20/1.

Okay so here is what I don't get. In Braun's presser, he says "I know that substance did not enter my body." Did we ever find out what exactly caused the testosterone jump? I feel like as long as it wasn't anabolic steroids, Braun would have been fine admitting he accidentally ingested something. If he's playing the "it never entered my body" card, he better not be lying. Because if it was something innocuous, he'd have no reason to deny it entering his body.
 
According to Munson's sources he did.

I posted the link

From the same link:

Two sources told ESPN that Braun testified he never used performance-enhancing drugs, but that he and his representatives never disputed the fact that a second test on his urine sample showed exogenous testosterone in his body, meaning it came from an outside source.
 
From the same link:

From the same link:

Sources also told Munson that there was doubt over whose urine was actually being tested. Braun offered to take a DNA test to confirm whose urine was in the sample, but Major League Baseball declined. However, an MLB source told ESPN's Mike Golic that Braun's side backed off of the offer to take a DNA test.

Anyone trying to say we know anything definitive about this right now is fooling themselves.
 
Okay so here is what I don't get. In Braun's presser, he says "I know that substance did not enter my body." Did we ever find out what exactly caused the testosterone jump? I feel like as long as it wasn't anabolic steroids, Braun would have been fine admitting he accidentally ingested something. If he's playing the "it never entered my body" card, he better not be lying. Because if it was something innocuous, he'd have no reason to deny it entering his body.

All we know is that it was an elevated testosterone level caused by synthetic testosterone.

Braun may very well not even realize that he ingested something to cause this. But I disagree with your last sentence. He has very good reasons to deny it entering his body - 50 games, and loss of reputation.

We've all heard the "tainted supplement" excuse, and rightly or wrongly, people roll their eyes.
 
From the same link:

Reportedly Braun's team had the science to prove that they could replicate the 20-1 result through some means or another. How isn't clear. A guy wrote a story on it for SI but they didn't publish it. It's available for money on amazon (???). Here's another article that references it:
As such, those who relentlessly moralized about Braun from the moment his positive test results were leaked surely took a step back and apologized for their hasty jump-to-conclusions approach, right?

Um … not quite.

They continue to do exactly the same thing even after the suspension was ruled null and void, primarily because every major media outlet reported that it was overturned due to a technicality and not science (1/2/3/4/5).

Almost immediately after the suspension was overturned, the stories started to pile in, sharply shifting in tone from being about Braun’s exoneration to Braun simply getting off on a stroke of luck. As such, the public continues to spew this rhetoric that Braun is definitely guilty of using drugs, it’s just that he wasn’t caught because of MLB’s incompetence.

The problem is that it’s not exactly true.

As many have already shown, the chain of custody is part of science, much like the process aspect of the scientific method is as important as the results, yet people don’t seem to care about that because … uh … science is hard and stuff (1/2/3/4/5).

Additionally, it actually is a matter of science for other reasons as well, as two relatively important findings have been omitted (willfully or not) from almost every news story and opinion piece on Braun. Will Carroll and Lester Munson both offer interesting findings on the decision via their own sources.

Sources have told Carroll that the defense showed that the circumstances which led to the positive drug test was able to be repeated using the errors of the handler, which he explained on WEEI.


In shorter bursts, he explained it on Twitter as well (1/2/3/4/5)

Quit calling Braun decision a technicality, media. It was decided on science.

Repeatable result showed exactly how Braun’s single test showed positive. Arbitrator agreed. Simple, isn’t it?

Know what makes a good soundbite? “44 hours” and “FedEx”. Know what doesn’t? Technical details about urine flora.

Joe Sheehan: So the delay in processing the urine was repeated, and shown to be the cause of the high levels of T?

Will Carroll: More or less. It deserves an answer longer than 140.

JGERRITWULTERKENS: confused; so the sheer act of leaving out a sample in the wrong environment by itself raises the testosterone ratio by >3x?

Will Carroll: To vastly oversimplify, yes.

JGERRITWULTERKENS: Fair enough except if that’s a widely known, medically accepted fact you’d think MLB/testers would have been cognizant, no?

Will Carroll: Tester made a mistake. Its not usually an issue.

Do yourself a favor and read the article that he posted up on Amazon. Not only is it great work, but it benefits The Jimmy Fund.

Carroll’s information is not only relevant, but it’s monumentally important to the argument people are having over whether Braun case was overturned because of the chain of custody or because of doubts involving the actual sample. Carroll’s sources explain quite explicitly that their failure to keep up with the chain of custody caused a failure in the integrity of the sample. Then, not only was the sample’s validity questionable, but they were able to replicate the results and show how it happened. Thus, not only was it a failure in the process, but in the results as well.

In essence, this would break the case of anybody left moralizing, which is a reason I find it curious that nobody wants to run it. For Carroll’s part, he says Fox Sports isn’t silencing him, he was just beaten to the punch, but I preferred his insight over the article by David Epstein and Joe Lemire that actually was run.

Why does nobody want to talk about this? It’s beyond me.

Furthermore, Munson reports that Braun offered his DNA to check whether the urine was actually his, but was refused, suggesting that there were further questions about the legitimacy of the sample.

A failure to follow the delivery procedure seems like a technicality. Does it mean that Braun was clean and had not used any prohibited substance?

The failure to follow the delivery procedure casts significant doubt on the integrity of the collection procedure. That alone might have been enough for Braun to prevail in the arbitration. But Braun’s side went one step further. He and his lawyers, sources say, offered a DNA sample that could have been compared to the urine sample to determine whether the urine came from Braun. It was a bold move by Braun attorneys David Cornwell and Christopher Lyons. But instead of agreeing to a DNA test that would have determined conclusively whether it was Braun’s urine that tested positive, MLB declined the offer. The refusal to agree to the DNA test likely pushed the arbitrator toward a ruling for Braun. It was also a major first step for Braun in the effort to clear his name. He and his attorneys can now argue that he was clean and that MLB deliberately denied him the opportunity to prove that scientifically.

Odd.

If we accept those two pieces of information as true (which I have no reason to doubt), it’s a bit of a no-brainer for the arbitrator, in my opinion. Not only could Braun have potentially won solely on the grounds that the entire methodology was compromised by the handler of the sample, but additionally, the test results were duplicated by the defense, giving ample reason to suspect that the positive test was useless. Adding the fact that the MLB didn’t allow Braun to prove his innocence by checking the DNA to confirm it was his urine, and everything Das decided becomes quite clear.

Even if you don’t fully believe Carroll or Munson, because for whatever reason you think you have sources that they don’t, it’s more than enough doubt for me to not write articles that basically say Braun’s definitely still guilty.

And no, I’m not talking about angry Twitter commenters or angry bloggers, but mainstream sportswriters (1/2/3/4/5).

Why? Who knows? Perhaps blindly believing Braun got off the hook on a technicality is more interesting than the details of how and why things actually happened.

Either way, it’s inexplicable to me that the process worked and Braun still ends up as the bad guy to 89% of the people out there (at least according to one poll). The public chooses to spew religiously charged hate, conspiracy theories, and goes around blindly calling him a liar when they don’t even bother to check out all the facts and what we actually know.

People know for sure that he used steroids, people know for sure that he got off on a technicality, and people know for sure that he lied to them at his press conference. Apparently just like they knew for sure he was going to be suspended for 50 games.

I guess it’s just frustrating to me to see the blatant denial of logic and reason that’s thrown right in their faces, all so that they can feel okay with the assumptions they ran with after the positive test results were announced. The fervent and insistent nature of it just shocks me.

Actually, I take that back. I guess it’s par for the course now.
http://www.chadmoriyama.com/2012/02/ryan-braun-what-you-dont-know-about-his-case-is-important/
 
From the same link:



Anyone trying to say we know anything definitive about this right now is fooling themselves.

I'll trust all of the experts who say the science is solid, and the doctors at the lab who saw nothing wrong with the sample when it arrived, over wacky conspiracy theories that require all sorts of leaps in faith to be able to connect the dots.

Funny how Braun backed off his grandstanding offer to take a DNA test. Gee, I wonder why.

He should take one anyway if he is so sure of himself, he can really stick it to MLB. He won't.
 
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