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Sports Illustrated's "Baseball's Greatest"

dell71 said:
It's amazing how thin third base is, historically.
Click to expand...

Was a defense first position for many decades (due to a propensity of bunts and right handers pulling grounders) before strategy shifted to strong fielders at second base.

That's all I got. I have no idea if that's the reason.
 
I wouldn't vote him in (Traynor), but given when he was, I understand why. Career .320 BA, 7 100 rbi seasons - over 1200 for his career probably ranked pretty high at the time, lots of triples, a number of years with MVP consideration. That's pretty much what voters were looking for.
 
dell71 said:
I wouldn't vote him in (Traynor), but given when he was, I understand why. Career .320 BA, 7 100 rbi seasons - over 1200 for his career probably ranked pretty high at the time, lots of triples, a number of years with MVP consideration. That's pretty much what voters were looking for.
Click to expand...

It's funny, he got almost zero support initially, and fell off the ballot. Then he got voted back on, and eventually got in.

He was getting like 2% on his first go around. I wonder what changed.
 
Warner2BruceTD said:
Was a defense first position for many decades (due to a propensity of bunts and right handers pulling grounders) before strategy shifted to strong fielders at second base.

That's all I got. I have no idea if that's the reason.
Click to expand...

Does Cal Ripken get credit for finishing at third? What about Chipper or ARod?
 
Warner2BruceTD said:
I'd call Cal a SS for sure. I'd call Chipper a 3B for sure.

ARod I have no idea what to do with. Probably SS.
Click to expand...

ARod is at the point where his career has been split between the two positions just about 50/50. So I wouldn't complain if you listed him as either. That said, he's more worthy of being listed as a 3B than Rose who only played a little over 600 of 3500+ games at 3rd.
 
I don't know where i'd put Pete, but honestly his best shot at any top ten would probably be 3B. Bill James has him in RF, I guess because he played his peak years there (27-30). He played 3B during the BRM championship years. He came up as a 2B. He played the most games at 1B, but mostly when he was old. He played LF during the early BRM years. He even played some CF.
 
Third base was interesting to work through. I'll go with this...

1. Mike Schmidt
2. Alex Rodriguez
3. Chipper Jones
4. George Brett
5. Eddie Matthews
6. Brooks Robinson
7. Home Run Baker
8. Miguel Cabrera
9. Ron Santo
10. Wade Boggs

Went with Alex Rodriguez as a 3B. After all, 2 of his 3 MVPs have come while playing the hot corner. Schmidt and A-Rod are very close offensively given the difference in their eras and other...ahem..."enhancements." Schmidt has the far better glove so that put him over the top for me. Speaking of the glove, that's really what puts Brooks Robinson ahead of the guys behind him. He was that good in the field.

Chipper always surprises me. I've watched his whole career, and I've always known he was great. Still, whenever I look at his numbers it's like "woah, I forgot." If you want to switch him and Brett, and/or Matthews I wouldn't complain, though.

I slotted Miggy 8th largely because it's only been 11 years. Obviously he's still climbing and could easily wind up 1st, especially if you factor in the very large possibility of spending a few seasons exclusively at DH.

I tried desperately not to include Boggs, but had to. I've always thought he was overrated and, at least in part, a creation of Fenway Park. In other words, his career split of a .369 BA in Fenway and .306 elsewhere is a bit alarming to me. Sadly, I couldn't really justify putting anyone in that spot. Rose is the most viable, but I've never been blown away by Rose, either. Not to mention, he played far more games at first, and was much better in RF. I guess Scott Rolen is the next best option. Or George Kell, Freddie Lindsrom, Darrell Evans. Almost went with a sentimental pick and put Graig Nettles 10th.
 
Warner2BruceTD said:
Haven't had time to do this yet, but I'm glad you mentioned Rolen & Darrell Evans, probably the two most underrated 3B.
Click to expand...

Though I didn't do it, I wouldn't be upset if anyone wanted to slot them ahead of Boggs.

Interesting note on Miggy: now that the Tigers traded Fielder away, Cabrera should be in for a lot more games at 1st potentially changing how we should classify him in a few years.
 
dell71 said:
Sports Illustrated's Greatest Third Basemen

1. Mike Schmidt
2. George Brett
3. Eddie Matthews
4. Wade Boggs
5. Brooks Robinson
6. Chipper Jones
7. Home Run Baker
8. Ron Santo
9. Miguel Cabrera
10. Pete Rose
Click to expand...

I don't know what to do with Rose position wise, and not sure he'd make any of my top ten's anyway, so i'm leaving him off every list. With that said, if I need to win one game, he's playing somewhere.

New age hardcore stat guys eye roll stuff like this, but they're lost - Pete Rose would kill his mother to win a baseball game. NOBODY played harder, and no matter what Keith Law says with that dumb smirk on his face, that matters when you are talking about splitting hairs with great player vs great player. This new age idea that playing hard doesn't really matter is something I will never hop on board with. Getting every ounce of what you have out of yourself means something, and it's also infectious. I read a lot of books about leadership & people management, and the human psychology of "do as your leader does" is very real, very tangible, and has been proven to be true.

If i'm starting a team to win one game, life on the line, i'm taking Ruth, i'm taking steroid Bonds, i'm taking Ty Cobb, and my next pick is probably Pete Rose.

My full 3B list coming later.
 
1. Mike Schmidt
2. Miggy Cabrera
3. Eddie Matthews
4. George Brett
5. Chipper Jones
6. Wade Boggs
7. Scott Rolen
8. Brooks Robinson
9. David Wright
10. Home Run Baker

I can't deny Miggy's bat. He's one of the greatest hitters of all time.

Tough leaving Beltre off. You can stick him in the 10 spot, same for Santo if you want, and a bunch of guys with no definable position like Rose or Dick Allen or Molitor or Edgar Martinez or Darrell Evans litter 3B more than any other spot. 3B tends to collect these types of guys.

I was waiting to see if anybody would bring up David Wright, who is a really great player and to me a lock HOF unless disaster strikes. I'm not as high on Brooks Robinson as most, a little more bat and he's top 5 easily. Evan Longoria is a better player imo than some of these guys and will easily make the top ten by the time he's done.
 
Just looked up something interesting.

Wright has the 4th highest OPS+ of all time at 3B, if you eliminate pre 1900 players & the cloudy multi position guys like Miggy, Dick Allen, Edgar Martinez, etc.
 
Beltre's not a guy I thought much about, nice mention.

Thought about Wright, didn't quite pull the trigger on him. Might have to look more closely at him.
 
Warner2BruceTD said:
"HOF" Pie Traynor is 49th in WAR below Eric Chavez, Carney Lansford, and Don Money.
Click to expand...

Did a little more digging on Pie Traynor. You (we) might be being a bit too harsh on him. The reason being that at the time he retired, it could be argued very strongly that he was one of the 3 best players to ever play the position. He, Baker, and Lindstrom were really the first guys to bring their bat to the position. Plus, whether it's true or not, everything I've read says he was considered the best fielding third basemen of his era, too. Sure, we could say that in the time since his numbers have become decreasingly impressive, but given those other factors I won't begrudge the man his spot. I think there are far more worthy candidates to be kicked out of the HoF. I'll get to one very shortly.
 
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