The Soccer Thread

[Champ]

 

[davie]

I don't really have anything to say to someone who think Hleb is a good footballer. Hleb, the slowest winger since Emile Heskey's youth vcarreer, with an absolute gash touch, and erratic passing.

The other players in the list I put on there because Donovan is flat out better than them, side-by-side, but I know why they're at those clubs and why their managers continue to play them, which makes sense why Donovan is starting over those players.

The other World's stage Donovan has shined on our the 02 World Cup, and last years Confed Cup. Whatever shit you want to say about the tournament is fine, but it always has the best teams in the world.

Like I said, I don't think he's a good signing for City, their squad is too big, they have enough wingers. He'd get lost and fade away. But, I do think he's good enough for a club of those ambitions, City's just a different situation. He'd fit in perfectly at Liverpool, Tottenham, even Man Utd. The number one reason you two, and other person I've met underrate Donovan is because he is American, and he's the poster child for American soccer. Even soccer moms know who he is, and everyone hates that because soccer is supposed to be their thing, not everyone's.

Looking at Donovan as a player though:

Pros:
Two-footed
Really fucking fast
Good technical skills, passing and touch are as good as you can get.
Can create and finish.
Plays anywhere amongst the top line and attacking midfield.
Able to take a game over and lead a team.

Cons:
Size
Heading
Receding hairline?

Compared to Champions League standards? No.

He played 13 of 19 possible games for them. Went to to win January player of the month and they were keen to re-sign him this summer again

I'd call that a pretty good loan spell.

He played because Everton had a million injuries and during January a couple of players were off to laugh at the Togo bus being shot at.

In January he scored a deflected shot* off Nyron Nosworthy to make it 2-0 at home to Sunderland (shouldn't have to tell you they were one of the worst prem away teams last season), he set up the 1st vs. Arsenal by taking a corner.

*assisted by Tim Cahill who had a much better January, and that's just from Everton. I mean, you could give Donovan the "Everton loan spell player of the month" if you want

 

[wr50l]

That is absolutely disgusting.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Those are some fuck-ugly Barca shirts...

And Bighouse, I do think you are overrating Donovan.

 

[BigHouseUSA]

Let it be known, I'm not saying he's World Class or anything. But he easily has the ability to be an important squad player or starter on most Champions League teams, sans Barca, Madrid, Chelsea, and some of the other bigger teams. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Let it be known, I'm not saying he's World Class or anything. But he easily has the ability to be an important squad player or starter on most Champions League teams, sans Barca, Madrid, Chelsea, and some of the other bigger teams. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

Because he hasn't proven it yet?

I don't see him walking into the squad on most regular Champions League squads, to be honest. The sides you mention, plus the likes of Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Inter, Lyon, Marseille, Schalke 04, Werder Bremen, Bayer Leverkusen, Roma, Milan... possibly not even the likes of Ajax or CSKA Moscow. He could be a spot starter and rotational player for many of those clubs, but I have my doubts he would be a clear starter over who they already have.

 

[BigHouseUSA]

Ajax? Seriously? Comon BP, you're more knowledgeable than that.

This all comes down to a lack of respect for the American game, even by Americans. He's had four stints in Europe, and two at the same club which was obviously not working, and during a time when he was a cunt. But that doesn't mean he'd not good enough, even at Bayern he impressed if you really watched and not read about it. And like mentioned, he was one of the best players at three major international tournaments. As well as far and away the best player for a decent national side. That's prove enough for me, as well as seeing him play a lot more than I would guess you guys have.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Ajax? Seriously? Comon BP, you're more knowledgeable than that.

This all comes down to a lack of respect for the American game, even by Americans. He's had four stints in Europe, and two at the same club which was obviously not working, and during a time when he was a cunt. But that doesn't mean he'd not good enough, even at Bayern he impressed if you really watched and not read about it. And like mentioned, he was one of the best players at three major international tournaments. As well as far and away the best player for a decent national side. That's prove enough for me, as well as seeing him play a lot more than I would guess you guys have.

Yeah, even Ajax. My first instinct was that he would take an immediate staritng role, given Ajax are hardly a real power anymore. But I look at their squad and I'm not sure he would replace? Clearly not Suarez, Enoh, or de Zeeuw. Probably not Sulejamni or Siem de Jong. Maybe Lodiero or Aissati, but neither are starters.

American soccer is "underrated" because it really hasn't proven anything in a long time. I find it difficult to point at a player and say "great player" based on their international play when their international side is only moderately successful.

Besides which, playing well for a national side - even being the best player - does not always equal out to how one performs at the club level. Look at Milan Baros, or Theodoros Zagorakis, or Traianos Dellas, or Angelos Charisteas, or Alpay Ozalan, or Maniche, or Rebcer Rustu, or Konstantin Zyryanov... They were all key players for their national teams doing very well in major tournaments, but most haven't had decorated club careers at the highest levels. If Donovan never manages to play reguarly at a high level at a bigger club in Europe and his contributions to the USNT are what essentially defines his career, he would not be alone in that.

 

[BigHouseUSA]

Two of the players you named as surely nots for AJax are defensive midfielders, and one's a forward. Of course he wouldn't be starting over them. He would easily fit in on the wing.

I'm not saying your underestimating American soccer because of its ability, but you're underestimating Donovan solely because he is American and as a whole, not many Americans have proved anything.

The main difference between those players you mentioned and Donovan, is that it's blatantly obvious when Donovan walks onto the field he is a step above a lot of the players. Whether that is the MLS, the Gold Cup, or the Premiership. He's shown he has the technical ability to be an important figure in a big team before, and like I said, I've seen him enough and enough of the people we're comparing him too to know he has the ability to be a solid player for a Champions League team.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Ajax still play a 4-3-3 so they really don't use true wingers.

Donovan clearly should be a step above most players in the MLS or playing in the Gold Cup. I would honestly expect nearly any player who starts regularly in one of the bigger European leagues to be at the top level of the MLS, at the very least, and better than most of the players in the Gold Cup. I love me some MLS, but the depth of quality of the league still isn't that high.

As for Donovan himself, I would love to see him succeed to be honest. I think it would help soccer in America (and Canada) a great deal. But I don't expect it. I've been hearing/reading the similar level of hype for the guy for the better part of a decade now. Very much the same arguements - he looks good for the USNT, has the skills, good leadership, etc etc. At some point, you just stop expecting to see it come through....

 

[BigHouseUSA]

But he has proven it, you cant hold a failur that happened to him at 7-10 years ago when he's proved it with Everton, and at the World/Confed Cup. Prem teams who saw firsthand what he did with Everton know that he's delivered, they don't need to expect anything.

 

[Bigpapa42]

But he has proven it, you cant hold a failur that happened to him at 7-10 years ago when he's proved it with Everton, and at the World/Confed Cup. Prem teams who saw firsthand what he did with Everton know that he's delivered, they don't need to expect anything.

How much can you really claim his spell at Everton proved? He played in 13 matches, 10 of them in the Prem and 7 were starts. Is that undeniable proof of class or a good run of form? And again, playing well for the national side is not necessarily the same as performing well at the club level on a consistent basis. I'm sorry, I just don't see national team play and 13 matches at Everton as clear and obvious proof that he could walk into all but the very biggest clubs in Europe and immediately be an impact starter.

I'm not holding Bayer Leverkusen against him. But most of his career since then has been playing well against mostly mediocre opposition. He's had to spells recently at the top level - one successful (Everton) and one failure (Munich). So again, it comes to basing the assessment of his quality on his play against MLS competition, his national team play, and those 13 matches with Everton... That's why I am not convinced.

 

[BigHouseUSA]

His past success combine with obvious skill is why I think he's good enough. And again, I didn't say impact starter. I said he can be an impact sub or solid starter for most CL teams. I'm not claiming anything outlandish here.

Like I said about Bayern, he played well throughout, it's just written as a failure. He was only brought into please Klinsmann, and by the ends of it he was about to fired and there was no way Donovan was going to brought back. But, if you watched the friendlies and league games he played in for them, it was a success.

 

[davie]

But he has proven it, you cant hold a failur that happened to him at 7-10 years ago when he's proved it with Everton, and at the World/Confed Cup. Prem teams who saw firsthand what he did with Everton know that he's delivered, they don't need to expect anything.

Just clear up for me, what has he proven?

 

[BigHouseUSA]

He has the technical and physical skills to play at a top level.
He can lead an average team against better competition (Spain, for one)
He's not a cunt anymore, like he was in his earlier years, when he failed.
He can play in the Premiership, and play well.

 

[1ke]

I admire you BH for goin to war over this lol....I just disagree on some things. I can say flat out I would love to see Landon succeed on Europe. I think if anyone one person can do magic for America and soccer, its him. I dont think he realizes how important he is, at times.

Im just sayin, especially in this situation. Going to Citeh would be a nightmare. He would be the same players as Bellamy, and not still cant mess wit David Silva.

He is good, but I think you may be overrating him a bit, maybe im underrating him. But what I want to see first is him LEAD the Galaxy to a title, him missing the PK last year didnt help...but if he wins a title here, then I think i jets.

 

[BigHouseUSA]

I've mentioned before, I wouldn't like a move to City either. He disappears in that squad, no doubt about it.

 

[Prodigal Son]

Donovans biggest con is that he's an American.

If he was from any other country, most of you would have his balls shoved down your throats.

In other news...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/soundersfcblog/2012414940_reports_uruguayan_mid_alvaro_f.html

Nice to sign World Cup players who aren't at the end of their career.

 

[Rudi]

I see you out there Donovan. Game tying goal tonight in the 90th minute. Galaxy are pretty tight

 

[Bigpapa42]

I admire you BH for goin to war over this lol....I just disagree on some things. I can say flat out I would love to see Landon succeed on Europe. I think if anyone one person can do magic for America and soccer, its him. I dont think he realizes how important he is, at times.

I'm the same. I'm not doubting him because I want to see him fail. I'd love to see him to go a good sized European club and find success. That would help soccer in the US. Which I think directly helps soccer here in Canada.