Tim Tebow sucking it up

[Sven Draconian]

For the most part its the defenses that are more complicated to read for an offense.

Defenses in the NFL are able to disguise things much easier because the hash marks are closer together. In the NCAA they have so much more ground to cover because the hash marks are wider that they are forced to show their hand early and the offense has more time to adjust to that.

There are a lot of NCAA teams that disguise coverages without showing until snap. Penn State is one (I have a packet from Ron Vanderlinden). USC is big on it (more on them later). Greg Robinson does it a ton (Michigan). TCU is another. Va Tech is one of the best. Those are just places I have literature on.

What looks like a 2 shell pre-snap in the NFL can easily turn into a cover 3 or cover 4 when the ball is snapped. Defenses shift around a lot more and bring a wider variety of blitz packages and such.

Just as an example (since I was looking over USC stuff earlier). Carrol's base coverage is Cover 1, spinning a safety down to cover the snap. They base out of the 4-3 (under front) with 2 high safeties, but usually spin one down at the snap based on backfield flow. There's good stuff over at trojanfootballanalysis.com

For the most part the difference between NFL and college offenses is all of the various motions and personel packages (It took Robert Meachum 3 years to get Payton's offense down), as well as having to read more of a defense post-snap as a reciever (and obviously as a QB as well).

Mario Manningham put it best... "In college I only had to read the corner and safety on my side, now I've gotta read the entire secondary plus the LB's."

The NFL does have more window dressing and a wider variety of blitzes. No disputing that. But the process of reading remains the same, there's just more junk to sort through.

There's only so many coverages you can play, and only so many route combinations you can throw together. An NFL team is going to have a larger amount of material, but that doesn't change the basis of the material.

 

[Nukleopatra]

I can't wait to see him throw at the combine.

Should be good for a few laughs.

 

[Sven Draconian]

Sort of. Again, think Alstott.

You are just saying that because he is white.

 

[NAHSTE]

I can't wait to watch Senior Bowl practices tomorrow. This is even worse than Andre Woodson and Colt Brennan from what I'm reading. Not that I'm surprised, I watched 4-5 Florida games a season while Teb's was there and can't remember a single spiral during that time.

 

[Fox1994]

Cutthroat douche almost fucks-up THANKZ BOMBING

Cutthroat douche almost fucks-up THANKZ BOMBING

Why exactly again? Tell me how the Colts/Pats/Saints lining up with with 3 receivers and throwing it 40 times a game is different than a college team doing it.



Um, why can't they teach Tebow how to take a snap? They are his coaches. Of course, maybe because NFL coaches are too lazy to teach the basics might be the reason half the first round busts every year.




If they can't teach him to take a 3 step drop, or take a snap under center, why could they be bothered with coaching him how to block?

You earned your thanks. Actual thought in posts is certainly appreciated, my fellow Raider-SC fan...

Stop using big words, black people post here.

You're the only groan I've given in several days. There's a reason for that... Asshole, you almost fucked-up the THANKZ BOMBING... Ugh.

There are a lot of NCAA teams that disguise coverages without showing until snap. Penn State is one (I have a packet from Ron Vanderlinden). USC is big on it (more on them later). Greg Robinson does it a ton (Michigan). TCU is another. Va Tech is one of the best. Those are just places I have literature on.



Just as an example (since I was looking over USC stuff earlier). Carrol's base coverage is Cover 1, spinning a safety down to cover the snap. They base out of the 4-3 (under front) with 2 high safeties, but usually spin one down at the snap based on backfield flow. There's good stuff over at trojanfootballanalysis.com




The NFL does have more window dressing and a wider variety of blitzes. No disputing that. But the process of reading remains the same, there's just more junk to sort through.

There's only so many coverages you can play, and only so many route combinations you can throw together. An NFL team is going to have a larger amount of material, but that doesn't change the basis of the material.

You also earned your thanks.

I can't wait to see him throw at the combine.

Should be good for a few laughs.

And so you redeem yourself...

 

[dave]

You know times are changing when they want to switch a white guy away from quarterback.
It's only a matter of time before Al Sharpton gets fired for saying whites lack the intelligence to play the position.

 

[steeljake]

whats even worse than his hoorid throwing motion and hour glass timed release is when he talks he always sounds out of breath and keeps saying he doesnt care what people think. he also claims he has nothing to prove and will always do his best. he does know that he could undrafted right?

wait... i take that back. the raiders still have al davis.

 

[hoodyallen]

It's okay guys, he has strep throat. He'll do fine in the pros.

 

[Rush]

The college spread offences are terrible for NFL development.
Frankly, if I were a top U.S. high school QB, I simply would not play for a spread offence team.

While that is true, if you dont have stats in HS you aren't going ANYWHERE. No matter what your credentials are.

 

[Bear Pand]

Video showing his release times from high school through college:
http://www.quarterbackacademy.com/coach_cast.html

Maybe the people who made this video are biased but his release seems to get worse.

 

[Senser81]

No, there isn't. If you think there is, tell me one.

What reads are different? MOFO/MOFC. If MOFC find the overhang, is he APEX, wide or tight. Set the protection and you're good to go.
There might be MORE progressions, but they are not different. The biggest difference I know of is setting protections (not usually put on the college QB). There might be MORE concepts, but the mechanics of reading them are the same.

LOL at this post. Its like saying the "mechanics" of reading a book is the same, so a 3rd grader should have no problem reading a book that is written in Chinese.

WTF are you even talking about? Have you never seen a college game and compared it to an NFL game? There is so much about your post that is so senseless and empirically false, I don't even know where to begin. I still don't understand what is meant by "mechanics of reading"...do you mean the QB in college uses his eyeballs just like the QB in the NFL? The reads in the NFL are much different than the reads in college. I thought this was obvious...CONSIDERING THAT THE MOST DIFFICULT THING FOR A ROOKIE QB TO MASTER IS READING DEFENSES.

The biggest adjustment a college QB has to make in the NFL is "setting protections"? SERIOUSLY?? So Mike Vick being a bust has nothing to do with his inaccuracy and his inability to read a defense...its because he does a poor job at "setting protections"?

Please stop talking.

 

[steeljake]

LOL at this post. Its like saying the "mechanics" of reading a book is the same, so a 3rd grader should have no problem reading a book that is written in Chinese.

WTF are you even talking about? Have you never seen a college game and compared it to an NFL game? There is so much about your post that is so senseless and empirically false, I don't even know where to begin. I still don't understand what is meant by "mechanics of reading"...do you mean the QB in college uses his eyeballs just like the QB in the NFL? The reads in the NFL are much different than the reads in college. I thought this was obvious...CONSIDERING THAT THE MOST DIFFICULT THING FOR A ROOKIE QB TO MASTER IS READING DEFENSES.

The biggest adjustment a college QB has to make in the NFL is "setting protections"? SERIOUSLY?? So Mike Vick being a bust has nothing to do with his inaccuracy and his inability to read a defense...its because he does a poor job at "setting protections"?

Please stop talking.

jesus sven you dumb fuck... you made me thank senser. DIAF.

btw, the biggest thing an nfl rookie has to adjust to is the speed of thegame. i was sure this was common knowledge...

 

[FedEx227]

Yeah, what the hell.

I agree with Senser.
Jake agrees with Senser.
Senser agrees with me.
I agree with Jake.
Jake agrees with me.

 

[Senser81]

btw, the biggest think an nfl rookie has to adjust to is the speed of thegame. i was sure this was common knowledge...

True. This has a big effect on being able to read a defense. In college, a QB has 5 seconds to read a defense, and he really only has to look at his primary and secondary WRs, because one of them will probably be open. And when I say "open", its in the college sense that the WR will have no one within 10 yards of him.

In the NFL, a QB has 3 seconds to read a defense, and he sometimes had to go through 4 progressions because NFL defenses are so much better at pass coverage. And guys in NFL are only open for a split-second, so the QB has to read the defense and time his throw. Its not like Tim Tebow casually looking around the field, spotting Adrian Hernandez completely uncovered, and then tossing a wobbly duck in Hernandez's direction for a 25-yard gain.

 

[Sven Draconian]

LOL at this post. Its like saying the "mechanics" of reading a book is the same, so a 3rd grader should have no problem reading a book that is written in Chinese.

No, it isn't. Again, Senser uses hyperbole, hurray.

If you want a real comparison, it would be the equivalent of learning a new language. As long as you have mastered a single language, you have the ability to learn any language, as long as you have the work ethic to do so.

Is the NFL harder? Of course. But there are still only so many ways to play a coverage.

Want to tell me what coverage is ONLY played in the NFL and why a college QB can't possibly read it?

WTF are you even talking about? Have you never seen a college game and compared it to an NFL game? There is so much about your post that is so senseless and empirically false, I don't even know where to begin. I still don't understand what is meant by "mechanics of reading"...do you mean the QB in college uses his eyeballs just like the QB in the NFL? The reads in the NFL are much different than the reads in college. I thought this was obvious...CONSIDERING THAT THE MOST DIFFICULT THING FOR A ROOKIE QB TO MASTER IS READING DEFENSES.

Alright, so what is different. You (believe) they are different, and since I'm sure you are just spitting out information you heard from a talking head (that would be silly talk) why not educate us VSN on how a college QB reads a defense and how an NFL QB reads a defense?

The biggest adjustment a college QB has to make in the NFL is "setting protections"? SERIOUSLY?? So Mike Vick being a bust has nothing to do with his inaccuracy and his inability to read a defense...its because he does a poor job at "setting protections"?

Please stop talking.

Thats the largest added responsibility. That isn't the same as saying the biggest adjustment.

The majority of the reason most players bust (not just QBs) is a lack of maturity and mental discipline. The actual game at both levels is not that different (again, you are free to tell me an actual difference).

Vick (and others) bust because they don't have the ability to adapt to the competition and develop as a player....because they get caught up in off-the-field distractions, a lack of competitiveness or they simply can't handle the pressure (ala Joey Harrington, Ryan Leaf ect.).

 

[Sven Draconian]

True. This has a big effect on being able to read a defense. In college, a QB has 5 seconds to read a defense, and he really only has to look at his primary and secondary WRs, because one of them will probably be open. And when I say "open", its in the college sense that the WR will have no one within 10 yards of him.

2 things here:
1) 10 yards? Really.

2) Nobody reads for "open receviers" you are reading defenders. I'm sure you know that though.

In the NFL, a QB has 3 seconds to read a defense, and he sometimes had to go through 4 progressions because NFL defenses are so much better at pass coverage. And guys in NFL are only open for a split-second, so the QB has to read the defense and time his throw. Its not like Tim Tebow casually looking around the field, spotting Adrian Hernandez completely uncovered, and then tossing a wobbly duck in Hernandez's direction for a 25-yard gain.

Because, of course, that is how QBs read defenders (just look for the open guy). It's almost identical to a flag football league.

 

[Senser81]

Is the NFL harder? Of course. But there are still only so many ways to play a coverage.

Want to tell me what coverage is ONLY played in the NFL and why a college QB can't possibly read it?

Did you not read my post? First, I don't remember mentioning that NFL defenses play different coverages than college defenses. Second, are you fucking serious with this line of "arguing"?! Whats next? Are you going to say that you don't understand why MLB hitters did so poorly against Nolan Ryan, because everyone has seen fastballs since Little League?

Alright, so what is different. You (believe) they are different, and since I'm sure you are just spitting out information you heard from a talking head (that would be silly talk) why not educate us VSN on how a college QB reads a defense and how an NFL QB reads a defense?

Oh wait...you still haven't explained what you meant by "mechanics of reading"...so no matter what I say, you can always fall back on "...but the mechanics of reading the defense is the same." Also, why/how would you even pursue this argument?! Do you honestly think that a college QB being able to read NFL defenses is a given, because their is no difference between a college defense and an NFL defense? That is the ONLY way your "argument" would make sense, and even then their is zero evidence to support your "hypothesis".

 

[SuperKevin]

It depresses me to know Buffalo will need a QB this year. I'm almost hoping they don't and decide to tank it this year in hopes of a better QB class next year

 

[Senser81]

2 things here:
1) 10 yards? Really.

2) Nobody reads for "open receviers" you are reading defenders. I'm sure you know that though.



Because, of course, that is how QBs read defenders (just look for the open guy). It's almost identical to a flag football league.

I get it! I'm wrong, and YOU are right! Thats why every top QB draft pick experiences immediate success in the NFL, and thats why every QB in the NFL is a superb athlete who runs a 4.4 forty....because reading defenses is a mere rote exercise. Like you said, its as simple as looking at the defense then passing to the open receiver. The only person who couldn't play QB in the NFL is Stevie Wonder.

 

[Sven Draconian]

Did you not read my post? First, I don't remember mentioning that NFL defenses play different coverages than college defenses. Second, are you fucking serious with this line of "arguing"?! Whats next? Are you going to say that you don't understand why MLB hitters did so poorly against Nolan Ryan, because everyone has seen fastballs since Little League?

What is your obsession with terrible comparisons?

Oh wait...you still haven't explained what you meant by "mechanics of reading"...so no matter what I say, you can always fall back on "...but the mechanics of reading the defense is the same." Also, why/how would you even pursue this argument?! Do you honestly think that a college QB being able to read NFL defenses is a given, because their is no difference between a college defense and an NFL defense? That is the ONLY way your "argument" would make sense, and even then their is zero evidence to support your "hypothesis".

Besides a couple of things, such as....
I'm not the one spouting off about how reading coverages change (if it does, how. Just tell me how it changes. If it's different enough that you, a fan, knows the difference, it should certaninly be easy to explain).

and...

I already have (a few posts up).

I've already told you how reading them is the same. You find the shell (MOFO/MOFC), find any overhang, identify his position. Identify zone vs man. Identify press vs loose. Set the protection (this is new for most rookies). Which step is different in the NFL?

I know there are some different things (More freedom to check to a new concept, more window dressing by the defense, more variety of coverages seen during an individual game), but that doesn't change the process.

And they have a coach, making hundreds of thousands, dedicated to teaching him these differences.

More importantly, why does coming from a spread offense change the ability for a QB to learn these things?

If you think there is a difference in reading the coverage, tell me what the difference is. Not just sound-bites (NFL defenses are FASTER! NFL defenses give a lot of different looks!) Just tell me what process is different, and why they are incompatiable.