UFC 99 Thread (Spoilers)

[Steel Mamba]

of course Chuck had weird fundamentals, but thats how he trained them believe or not, that was the gameplan during his UFC title run

just like you say you cant really judge machidas technique because he is using karate Chuck is in the same boat, he had a karate background and thats where his training is from

The difference is that there's huge holes in Chucks game that a lot of good strikers have been able to exploit. While Machida's style is also unique there doesn't seem to be any large holes in his game, unlike Chuck's.

Jardines main weapon was leg kicks if I remember correctly, it was a total effort in combination, not just jabbing chuck in the face which didnt happen, I never said it cant work against bombs, I said you gotta be careful, of course it can work, but not to the extent you can in boxing becuase you can show better defense with the gloves and the lack of getting taken down and kicked

like I said, a jab can be effective, never said it wasnt, but in a boxing match you can say about the majority of the fights 'he needs to work the jab' and you would correct, doesnt work like that in MMA

Yeah it was the front kick, but also the jab as well. He setup some good combos off of his jab and at times kept Chuck at bay with the jab and front kick. But, I agree with you, you're not going to see the jab used as often as it is in boxing. In MMA it shouldn't be used as often, but that doesn't make it any less important.

 

[Liquidrob]

The difference is that there's huge holes in Chucks game that a lot of good strikers have been able to exploit. While Machida's style is also unique there doesn't seem to be any large holes in his game, unlike Chuck's.

thats part of my problem with your arguement, chuck has had to fight some very good strikers and has had some sucess, probably like 3-3 vs legit striking comp

Machida hasnt had to face any great strikers to be exposed, I watch machida highlights and he gets in, leaves his chin wide open, doesnt always have his hands high while punching, etc...he just hasnt been tested by anyone, of course he looks so sharp, same with Silva, the best strikers he fought was a street brawling boxer in lee Murray and guys like Cote? lol, Rich probably is the best he faced, but Rich doesnt have a great striking pedigree and had no answer for the clinch which better strikers would

let me see machida fight rampage, shogun, mousasi, etc...first

let me see Silva fight Manhoef or Vitor, he wont be dancing against those 2

dont put this guys in the striking hall of fame without ever getting tested by a legit striking threat, I think people tend to overrate the 'hot' fighter, the newest thing before they are even tested, I fall into that sometimes, but try not to

 

[Liquidrob]

this is what happens to Silva when he tries to get And1 with guys who are not afraid to strike with him

 

[Steel Mamba]

thats part of my problem with your arguement, chuck has had to fight some very good strikers and has had some sucess, probably like 3-3 vs legit striking comp

Machida hasnt had to face any great strikers to be exposed, I watch machida highlights and he gets in, leaves his chin wide open, doesnt always have his hands high while punching, etc...he just hasnt been tested by anyone, of course he looks so sharp, same with Silva, the best strikers he fought was a street brawling boxer in lee Murray and guys like Cote? lol, Rich probably is the best he faced, but Rich doesnt have a great striking pedigree and had no answer for the clinch which better strikers would

let me see machida fight rampage, shogun, mousasi, etc...first

let me see Silva fight Manhoef or Vitor, he wont be dancing against those 2

dont put this guys in the striking hall of fame without ever getting tested by a legit striking threat, I think people tend to overrate the 'hot' fighter, the newest thing before they are even tested, I fall into that sometimes, but try not to

You're right, I just think Machida and Silva would perform well against those guys you mentioned. But, of course there's only one way to know for sure, so hopefully we get to see some of those matches.

 

[Liquidrob]

I know some people just don’t like certain things, but do any of you guys watch K1 at all? I don’t follow it as much as I used to besides some of there freak show matches and wacky scoring, this is the highest level of kick boxing around

I think most people in American need are to boxing-centric and don’t see the other forms of striking as 'technical’, but just watch some K1 stuff, its pretty entertaining and some high level stuff

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[Liquidrob]

Nice mix of Cro Cop in K1 and MMA

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[Steel Mamba]

I used to watch K1, but haven't in a long time. There's some very talented guys in K1, but some strictly MMA guys have beaten some good K1 fighters before (in K1). So, I don't make the assumption that just because someone has a K1 background automatically makes him an elite striker in MMA. I mean you can say that for some of the guys, but not all of them. Also, how many K1 guys are in the P4P talks, or even at the top of their divisions'?

 

[Liquidrob]

I used to watch K1, but haven't in a long time. There's some very talented guys in K1, but some strictly MMA guys have beaten some good K1 fighters before (in K1). So, I don't make the assumption that just because someone has a K1 background automatically makes him an elite striker in MMA. I mean you can say that for some of the guys, but not all of them. Also, how many K1 guys are in the P4P talks, or even at the top of their divisions'?

Of course it doesnt make you an elite striker in MMA, makes you better than most for sure (besides the freak show fights), but you know if you fight a K1 guy you are in for a battle and the guy can handle himself on his feet

MMA guys have done ok because of the rounds and rules, shorter rounds makes it easier for a less skilled guy to win and the scoring structure, its hit or be hit, kill or be killed, also open weight fights make size and power a big factor

not sure about the P4P talks would matter, its not there sport, but Cro Cop was the number 2 or 3 HW for awhile because he actually devolped a sprawl and ground defense and trained MMA full time which I dont think many K1 guys have besides Cro Cop, all the K1 guys lose in MMA because of the ground game, just like boxers would if they would make the jump

K1 is hardcore, like Mo Smith once told me 'MMA is a vacation compared to K1'

 

[calgaryballer]

God damn, I love Ernesto Hoost

The K-1 World GP Final is one of my favorite events every year

 

[Liquidrob]

AA quote his training, chin and Rogers

"I focused too much on boxing and not enough on the wrestling and jiu-jitsu. It wasn’t right. It’s another thing I have to think about. MMA is not boxing. I have to change something."

"I don’t understand this question about my chin. When you open your face for four or five punches it doesn’t matter your chin, you will get KOed." Crediting his adversary, he continued, "Rogers was great, he did what he did. I took the fight and I got my ass kicked, it’s that simple. It’s embarrassing, but what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. I have to move on. I’m definitely going to come back."

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Lol @ I didnt focus enough on wrestling and BJJ. You got fucking decked before you could do much of anything AA..

 

[Liquidrob]

Lol @ I didnt focus enough on wrestling and BJJ. You got fucking decked before you could do much of anything AA..

thats not really the point, seems like AA is saying all he has been doing is boxing and thats not the right mindset to have when fighting MMA, you can focus on your boxing, but you cant forget you are not in a boxing match

look at old AA, against Paul B, he threw an overhand right right into a double leg to start the fight, just so happened he KO'd Paul and didnt need to finish the double, its just a mindset

AA was a Sambo champ, he looked pretty crappy on the ground against Nelson and Rothwell, I think he understands he needs to get back to the total game and not just being a 'boxer'

He more than likely would still have gotten KO'd because it was the first exchange, but I dont think he is trying to make an excuse, but just realizing he has to retool his game

Just another case of a MMA fighter who has a bunch of skills falling in love with his hands and becoming 1 dimensional and losing

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

thats not really the point, seems like AA is saying all he has been doing is boxing and thats not the right mindset to have when fighting MMA, you can focus on your boxing, but you cant forget you are not in a boxing match

I think hes looking for excuses, TBH.

But yeah.. AA obviously falls in love with his boxing, but thats nothing new.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I don't read anything really that tries to make excuses. Especially when he gives props to Rogers, to which he basically said "dude knocked me the fuck out, there wasn't anything I could do about it...heck, anyone would get knocked out after taking the punches I took!"

 

[Tailback U]

wait...if AA was focusing too much on boxing wouldn't it have helped him stand up against rogers and not get knocked out?

i can see how it would have hurt him if the fight went to the ground but it was the first exchange of the fight and the two were both standing and going to trade. if had been practicing his boxing as much as he says he should have been moving his head much more and not gotten knocked out so easily.

sidenote - watching TUF right now and i hate how the american fighters never listen to hendo in the corner. he just yells the same thing over and over again all fight and they never ever listen to him, i know they have trouble hearing while in there but come on dudes.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

wait...if AA was focusing too much on boxing wouldn't it have helped him stand up against rogers and not get knocked out?

i can see how it would have hurt him if the fight went to the ground but it was the first exchange of the fight and the two were both standing and going to trade. if had been practicing his boxing as much as he says he should have been moving his head much more and not gotten knocked out so easily.

sidenote - watching TUF right now and i hate how the american fighters never listen to hendo in the corner. he just yells the same thing over and over again all fight and they never ever listen to him, i know they have trouble hearing while in there but come on dudes.

AA is looking for excuses cause his career is at a cross-roads.

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

wait...if AA was focusing too much on boxing wouldn't it have helped him stand up against rogers and not get knocked out?

dont matter how great you are at boxing if you your chin open like that and take those shots your going down.