Who is the greatest Canadian athlete ever?

[leaffan]

My head hurts reading this thread.

There are so many people here that have no idea what they are talking about I don't even know where to begin.

 

[ssags11]

Gretzky is EASILY the greatest canadian athelete EVER, its not even close.

What Gretzky did in the sport and for the sport, noone has or probably will ever touch most of what he did. You can mention Lemieux but thats all you can do, Gretzky was the better player.

To even question, even think about having GSP as the greatest canadian athlete, especially compared to Gretzky, is laughable. GSP is good but he aint that good.

Yes, I realize this is an old thread. But I am super shocked the lack of Bobby Orr's name being mentioned in here. Lots people that saw both Orr and Gretzky play pick Orr over Gretz. So, let's not say the argument is not close because there is a real debate on who was the best. Some publications have Orr listed above Gretzky.

 

[ssags11]

Bringing anything against Wayne Gretzky is a federal crime. CSIS is hunting down Rob's IP address right now to bring him in

There is some criticism of Wayne out there. He wasn't a very fast skater, he wasn't that great of a two way player and we all know he was soft. That's all legit criticism.

 

[calgaryballer]

There is some criticism of Wayne out there. He wasn't a very fast skater, he wasn't that great of a two way player and we all know he was soft. That's all legit criticism.

These are the dumbest criticism's I've ever seen. The 80's Oilers were designed to basically be a one way team and hope Fuhr would keep out enough shots to let them win. If someone wanted to be this picky, you can find something about EVERY SINGLE ATHLETE IN EVERY SPORT IN THE WORLD.

Michael Jordan had a weak three point shot. NOT THE BEST EVER
Babe Ruth didn't hit 70 home runs. NOT THE BEST EVER
Tom Brady can't run a 4.3 40. NOT THE BEST EVER

 

[ssags11]

These are the dumbest criticism's I've ever seen. The 80's Oilers were designed to basically be a one way team and hope Fuhr would keep out enough shots to let them win. If someone wanted to be this picky, you can find something about EVERY SINGLE ATHLETE IN EVERY SPORT IN THE WORLD.

Michael Jordan had a weak three point shot. NOT THE BEST EVER
Babe Ruth didn't hit 70 home runs. NOT THE BEST EVER
Tom Brady can't run a 4.3 40. NOT THE BEST EVER

Hey, you made the statement you can't criticize him. But in fact there is some stuff he can be criticize for. That's all, no big deal. And to honest that fact he needed someone to take care of him has always bothered me about Wayne. Orr never needed a goon to protect him, Orr would drop the gloves and protect his own self if he needed to. Orr was great at every single aspect of the game something that Wayne can not claim. Orr revolutionize the game of hockey into something it was not before he came into the league. You can't say that about Wayne, he didn't change how the game was played, he just smashed almost every single offensive category there was.

That said, I still think Wayne was the best to play hockey but I am making sure people understand he is not head and shoulders above everyone else when you had a guy named Bobby Orr play the same game.

 

[Ravin]

Yes, I realize this is an old thread. But I am super shocked the lack of Bobby Orr's name being mentioned in here. Lots people that saw both Orr and Gretzky play pick Orr over Gretz. So, let's not say the argument is not close because there is a real debate on who was the best. Some publications have Orr listed above Gretzky.

:jonesy:

No offence, but it is hard to take you seriously on this with the boston image in your name, considering people in the Mass state have a hard on for everyone that comes out of there.

I will say it, the argument is not close. I don't know what publications you know of that listed Orr above Gretzky, but the main ones have Orr in the 2-4 spot with Mario and Gordie.

Now I'm a Penguins fan and I can sit here and make a claim all day the Mario is the better player they Gretzky, and I could probably come up with some good ones. But I will say I have bias. When I sit and take my blinders off, it what Gretzky did can't be touched. Mario and Orr both got hurt and had short careers. You can't play the "what if" game with them.

Just being honest, and as a Canadian, I'm sorry to say that Gretzky will always be above Orr. Not only has 99 done so much while he played hockey, he continues to do so much for the game of hockey and Canada. Orr stepped away from the spotlight for awhile, then became an agent and really only gets mentioned when it comes to the Prospect Game. Other then that (and the feature story we did on him at THN in the 'Where are they now' issue) Orr is hardly talked about.

 

[Ravin]

Hey, you made the statement you can't criticize him. But in fact there is some stuff he can be criticize for. That's all, no big deal. And to honest that fact he needed someone to take care of him has always bothered me about Wayne. Orr never needed a goon to protect him, Orr would drop the gloves and protect his own self if he needed to. Orr was great at every single aspect of the game something that Wayne can not claim. Orr revolutionize the game of hockey into something it was not before he came into the league. You can't say that about Wayne, he didn't change how the game was played, he just smashed almost every single offensive category there was.

That said, I still think Wayne was the best to play hockey but I am making sure people understand he is not head and shoulders above everyone else when you had a guy named Bobby Orr play the same game.

You are seriously losing points fast here. Wayne didn't change the game? Are you kidding? There is so much homer in this post it is really hard to think you are being serious in this. Orr changed the game as a defencemen. Lets not sit here and say he changed the entire way we think of hockey. A dman in that day being an offensive threat was something different back in the day.

Actually, maybe I will agree with you and say wayne didn't change the game. You know why? Because he was the game. He was head and shoulders above everyone else. Saying he needed protecting so that doesn't make him great is pure crap. You know why he needed protecting? Because the people in Edmonton at the time looked at how short Orr's career was (and other superstars) and how they were attacked by the other team. So rather then 99's career being only a few years, they gave him some protection so he could do his greatness. That doesn't take anything away from his stats or his accomplishments.

You make a bunch of open statements and never give anything to back it up. Orr was great at every aspect and Wayne can't claim that? Really? Best goal scorer, set up man, teammate, etc. I'm sure if someone with some objective view looked at Orr they could find something in his game. Again, your Boston-Blinders are on.

 

[ssags11]

I am not just making up a debate. It's a real debate that has been going on for years. You also skipped that I give in and say Wayne is the greatest which is unfair to me. Am I biased...yup I am but I am not the only one that thinks Orr should be and in the talk. Here are several articles and you will see there is still a debate. Yes, Orr changed the entire game not just defenceman. There was no such thing as an offensive defenseman when Orr came into the league. That completely changed the game to 5 players being a part of the offense instead of 3.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2011/10/bobby-orr-vs-wayne-gretzky.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=buccigross_john&id=2693954

I really hope the doubters read this one in particular, quick read. But it puts into perspective how close the two of them are.

http://www.head-2-head.com/article/...-Who-Is-The-Greatest-Hockey-Player-Ever-.html

Here is an entire thread devoted to the debate

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1025345

http://bobbyorr.net/debates/debates.php

 

[ssags11]

:jonesy:
. Orr stepped away from the spotlight for awhile, then became an agent and really only gets mentioned when it comes to the Prospect Game. Other then that (and the feature story we did on him at THN in the 'Where are they now' issue) Orr is hardly talked about.

Very unfair statement about Orr as Orr is a very quiet and shy man. One of the most humble people that ever played a sport and again, if you know about his history, that's a very accurate statement. Again, I am not making it up, if you know anything about Orr, he never liked the spotlight and stay out of the limelight as much as he could. Not sure what you watch but I watch the CBC every Saturday and Orr is mentioned every telecast.

Everyone talks about Gretz putting hockey on the map in the USA but guess what Orr is the the one that made the NHL the 4th sport in the US. Everyone knew who Orr was in the US back during those days. Orr did as much for the growth of hockey as Wayne did. I know you guys will debate that point but if you read the links I posted you will see people that remember Orr also make the claim that Orr helped hockey become popular in the US.

 

[Fappin Raptor]

Gretzky > Gordie > Orr

 

[ssags11]

The most troublesome part of the disagreement on Orr or Gretz is not that I am saying it. It is that some on here think I am making it up or involved in homerism. This has been a debate I didn't make up, this is a debate that has been on going for years. Is Guy Lefleur some sort of Bostonian homer? Playing for the hated Habs and hated in Boston for the 1979 Cup finals. Because if you ask him, he will tell you Orr was the best player he ever saw and he played against Gretz and Howe also.

Like I said prior, most hockey talking heads that saw Orr play choose Orr over Gretz in the debate. I am willing to bet I am the only person in this chat that saw Orr play live. Maybe I am wrong but don't discount me because you think I am a homer. It's an on going debate that some of you have decided Wayne wins resoundingly

 

[Ravin]

Posting articles on opinion pieces isn't evidence, because someone asked the question and it got picked. Hell I bet there is someone out there who thinks Crosby is the greatest Canadian and if they asked the question at the right time, they would get an answer. The links you posted are really not creditable sorry to say. You have two opinion pieces (CBC, ESPN), the head2head site doesn't really say shit (I could do a Crosby/Gretzky one) same as hfboards, I can make up the same debate. Hockey News did its Best players of all time. Gretzky was still #1. TSN did it awhile back, same story.

This thread is about best Canadian, not best hockey player. In the best Canadian debate, Gretzky wins. I'm sorry, but that is not up for debate. I guess my issue is, you are not Canadian, yet are trying to tell Canadians who should be their best athlete based on the fact that you think Orr is better. Unless you live in Canada (just from your posts, it seems you don't) you would really have no idea about the image Gretzky has in this country. When he speaks, people still listen. People are always hunting him down for a comment. Orr not so much, and saying he is shy isn't really an answer. When he came into The Hockey News I was told he was the kindest person, did photos with everyone, signed anything, and was so eager to help in any way he could. But we still don't hunt him down for quotes on major issues unless Gretzky.

I won't debate Orr helping hockey grow in the US, because in his time, hockey was still Canada's game. But does that give him a bonus on Wayne just because he was born earlier? Wayne's trade to LA sparked so much for the sport, grabbed so many headlines, and would be up there in one of the most talked about NHL stories in history. It was ESPN's first film in the 30 for 30 series.

Anyways, as I said, there is no debate on best Canadian athlete. I even find it a little insulting that GSP was put up beside Wayne in the original post. Debating Orr vs Gretzky, well that isn't going anywhere. It will be the exact same when we debate Crosby vs Gretzky once his career is over, and you know it will happen. People will debate the style of the game, the pace, how Crosby has it harder to score, etc.

 

[Tailback U]

As a life long hockey fan born and raised in California, there is Wayne Gretzky and then there is everyone else. Not only is he hands down the greatest hockey player of all time, but many consider him the greatest professional athlete of all time. I would put him above Jerry Rice and below Jordan in terms of the greatest pro players of all time.

I think my sentiments are shared by most out here.

 

[ssags11]

Posting articles on opinion pieces isn't evidence, because someone asked the question and it got picked. Hell I bet there is someone out there who thinks Crosby is the greatest Canadian and if they asked the question at the right time, they would get an answer. The links you posted are really not creditable sorry to say. You have two opinion pieces (CBC, ESPN), the head2head site doesn't really say shit (I could do a Crosby/Gretzky one) same as hfboards, I can make up the same debate. Hockey News did its Best players of all time. Gretzky was still #1. TSN did it awhile back, same story.

This thread is about best Canadian, not best hockey player. In the best Canadian debate, Gretzky wins. I'm sorry, but that is not up for debate. I guess my issue is, you are not Canadian, yet are trying to tell Canadians who should be their best athlete based on the fact that you think Orr is better. Unless you live in Canada (just from your posts, it seems you don't) you would really have no idea about the image Gretzky has in this country. When he speaks, people still listen. People are always hunting him down for a comment. Orr not so much, and saying he is shy isn't really an answer. When he came into The Hockey News I was told he was the kindest person, did photos with everyone, signed anything, and was so eager to help in any way he could. But we still don't hunt him down for quotes on major issues unless Gretzky.

I won't debate Orr helping hockey grow in the US, because in his time, hockey was still Canada's game. But does that give him a bonus on Wayne just because he was born earlier? Wayne's trade to LA sparked so much for the sport, grabbed so many headlines, and would be up there in one of the most talked about NHL stories in history. It was ESPN's first film in the 30 for 30 series.

Anyways, as I said, there is no debate on best Canadian athlete. I even find it a little insulting that GSP was put up beside Wayne in the original post. Debating Orr vs Gretzky, well that isn't going anywhere. It will be the exact same when we debate Crosby vs Gretzky once his career is over, and you know it will happen. People will debate the style of the game, the pace, how Crosby has it harder to score, etc.

And my question will be Did you even bother to look and read them?

 

[ssags11]

Where are you getting your opinions on Orr? You don't think Canadians hunt down Orr like they do Gretz? You're crazy. Orr is just as revered as Howe or Gretz is in Canada.

 

[ssags11]

Crosby...WTF. He is not even the best player on his team but now you are trying to put him with Gretz. LOL Now, who is the homer?

 

[calgaryballer]

Where are you getting your opinions on Orr? You don't think Canadians hunt down Orr like they do Gretz? You're crazy. Orr is just as revered as Howe or Gretz is in Canada.

Yes, I read them. The H2H thing gave Gretz the win, and the others provided some anecdotes for Orr while still conceding Gretz is probably a better player. I can find you message board threads about just about anything (Shawn Bradley > Michael Jordan because he's so tall!), so lets pretend you didn't try and pass that off. No one is saying Orr wasn't amazing, but GRETZKY IS THE BEST HOCKEY PLAYER OF ALL TIME

 

[Ravin]

And my question will be Did you even bother to look and read them?

Where are you getting your opinions on Orr? You don't think Canadians hunt down Orr like they do Gretz? You're crazy. Orr is just as revered as Howe or Gretz is in Canada.

Yes I read them. The CBC one is Kelly doing emails on interesting topics. So basically picks what he wants. Again, one person making a single debate, not a large enough group.

And no, I am telling you, we don't hunt down Orr like we do Gretzky. That isn't me speaking out of my ass, that is just me telling you how it is. Interesting little story, and I'll start by posting this image.

Why I post that image is because there was probably little discussion about putting Wayne on the front of that cover. Now go to a month ago.

In a meeting we had, we needed a cover for this issue. Of all the players we did a "where are they now" on, Bobby Orr was probably the biggest name. But the issue was, was Orr "sexy enough for the front cover". Yes, we actually had to talk about it, and the art person had to make the cover up and get peoples opinions on it in order for us to make it the cover. We thought of some other options like making it more big words, and doing a line up of players such as Orr, Iafrate, Lindros, and others in the issue, but instead we kept with the big photo of Orr.

The biggest hockey magazine in the world was not 100% sure on Orr being good enough for the cover. This is by no means a shot at Orr, or his play. But the reality is, he isn't as big as you want him to be, and trying to downgrade Wayne's play to make Orr better is just a head scratcher.

Even tailback has put Wayne into a league of his own. Not just best hockey player, but best athlete period.

Crosby...WTF. He is not even the best player on his team but now you are trying to put him with Gretz. LOL Now, who is the homer?

:facepalm:

Crosby: 434GP - 223G - 386A - 609P
Malkin: 427GP - 208G - 319A - 527P

82 more points in 7 more games. Do I really need to go on.

I would hope Malkin is the best of his team )right now) considering he has PLAYED THE LAST TWO FUCKING YEARS WITHOUT A CONCUSSION. But lets be honest, Crosby is the best player in the NHL, and I guarantee you if the talk of "who could beat Wayne's records" ever were to come up, the only name that would appear would be Crosby.

 

[Liquidrob]

Still the champ, still the greatest Canadian athlete EVA

 

[Liquidrob]

Riddum