whos the better overall player Ray Allen or Manu Ginobili

[Joey P]

If he was good, he would've been a starter.

 

[jags224]

oh give me a break we all know a team led by Ginobili wouldn't even sniff the Finals let alone win a ring Dwight. He piggybacked off of Duncan and Parkers success and is a good player, but not a stud.

To be quite honest, i think comparing the two players is far fetched. They both have different roles on different style teams and have different style games. This is like comparing Chris Johnson to Brandon Jacobs. Whose to say one is better when they both play the game differently and get the same results.

without ginobili the spurs are shit, just look at this years playoffs, and they would have not won the ship in 2005 without him.

 

[Thesportsguy]

if manu played ray allens min he would be even more injured then he is now. its close allen takes it though and not to mention ray is clutcher than mani

 

[jags224]

if manu played ray allens min he would be even more injured then he is now. its close allen takes it though and not to mention ray is clutcher than mani

you want to translate that to english please.

 

[Archer]

If he was good, he would've been a starter.

Yeah because No All-Stars have ever been 6th men

Give me a break

 

[Archer]

oh give me a break we all know a team led by Ginobili wouldn't even sniff the Finals let alone win a ring Dwight. He piggybacked off of Duncan and Parkers success and is a good player, but not a stud.

To be quite honest, i think comparing the two players is far fetched. They both have different roles on different style teams and have different style games. This is like comparing Chris Johnson to Brandon Jacobs. Whose to say one is better when they both play the game differently and get the same results.

Hes an all-star and a top 3-5 SG whichever way you want to spin it . Look at how much the Spurs missed him when hes gone , look at the pistons finals series . He doesnt seem to be doing alot of piggybacking to me , of course he couldnt lead a team to the finals but lets be honest not that many players in the NBA can lead a team to the Finals like you are saying .

And I think its fair enough to say Manu is better than Ray , hes a better all around player all together . It's no knock on Ray because he's a damn good player who can shoot and do a little bit of everything else but he can't do as much as Manu as-well as Manu which makes Ginoblli a better player for me.

Also I dont think anybody Piggybacked anything of Parker , Duncan well yes , but when you have the best PF of all time any player in the same team would be classed as piggybacking

 

[jags224]

Without Manu, the Spurs aren't Champions, but shit? That's over exaggerating his impact.

just that specific year, 2005 playoffs they might not even got past the sonics, in game five series tied two a piece, they were down the whole game and manu went off and had 39 and spurs won by like 5 and then game six duncan got a game winning layup to win the series.

and in the finals the pistons were nasty but ginobili had clutch plays and shit, i just cant see someone replacing him, or stepping up like he did

 

[Joey P]

Yeah because No All-Stars have ever been 6th men

Give me a break

1 All Star game for Ginobili compared to Ray Allens 9x's...

YOU, gimme a break...

Hes an all-star and a top 3-5 SG whichever way you want to spin it . Look at how much the Spurs missed him when hes gone , look at the pistons finals series . He doesnt seem to be doing alot of piggybacking to me , of course he couldnt lead a team to the finals but lets be honest not that many players in the NBA can lead a team to the Finals like you are saying .

And I think its fair enough to say Manu is better than Ray , hes a better all around player all together . It's no knock on Ray because he's a damn good player who can shoot and do a little bit of everything else but he can't do as much as Manu as-well as Manu which makes Ginoblli a better player for me.

Also I dont think anybody Piggybacked anything of Parker , Duncan well yes , but when you have the best PF of all time any player in the same team would be classed as piggybacking

Its obvious that some of you guys haven't seen Ray Allen play when he played with Milwaukee or Seattle cuz he was much more than a shooter. He plays with a better team now so he defers his game to PP and KG.

 

[Archer]

1 All Star game for Ginobili compared to Ray Allens 9x's...

YOU, gimme a break...



Its obvious that some of you guys haven't seen Ray Allen play when he played with Milwaukee or Seattle cuz he was much more than a shooter. He plays with a better team now so he defers his game to PP and KG.

First of all I didnt claim Manu played in more All-Star games so that point was moot . I said hes an all-star SG which I think most people can agree on . You say he wouldnt be on the bench if he was so good , I'm saying hes not the first all-star to be the 6th man on a team so dont act like being on the bench takes away from him in the slightest.

I also said Ray can do a little bit of everything on top of being a good shooter , I just dont think he can do as much as Manu can or as well as Manu does them (apart from Shooting)

But please , If you want to show me where I said Manu had been in more all-star games than Ray I will stop talking . I'm pretty sure you cant though

 

[jags224]

manu developed late he came into the league when he was 26, shit manu doesnt even have a chance to get 9 allstars, hes only been in the league for 7 years. hes always had timmy over him and shit, he doesnt have the chance to launch 25 shots a game like ray did

 

[jags224]

might i add ginobili was 7th in mvp voting in 2007 when he was 30 years old, playing behind hall of famer tim duncan and tony parker

 

[Thesportsguy]

ray allen is not a great defender but hes not a horrible defender also anyone who thinks ray allen is just a shooter is completly wrong eddie house is just a shooter. like some others have been saying watch more than one game and by the way ray can take it to the hole in the 2008 finals he did a pretty good job driving it in. the reason why he doesnt drive to whole all the time is because he is an amazing 3pt shooter and the celtics have two people that drive in pierce and rondo they need ray to spread the floor out he could easly create from him self like he's done from time to time in seatle in boston paul pierce is the driver and he kicks it out to open shooters. ray allen could do that if that was his role on the team.

 

[Joey P]

First of all I didnt claim Manu played in more All-Star games so that point was moot . I said hes an all-star SG which I think most people can agree on . You say he wouldnt be on the bench if he was so good , I'm saying hes not the first all-star to be the 6th man on a team so dont act like being on the bench takes away from him in the slightest.

I also said Ray can do a little bit of everything on top of being a good shooter , I just dont think he can do as much as Manu can or as well as Manu does them (apart from Shooting)

But please , If you want to show me where I said Manu had been in more all-star games than Ray I will stop talking . I'm pretty sure you cant though

Cmon man, the guy made 1 All Star team, ONE. To bring up the fact that he was an All-Star means absolutely nothing. A perennial All-Star being regulated to the bench actually holds a lil weight.

A career role player, being an All-Star for one season, then regulated to the bench means he is back where he belongs.

Might as well bring out the Tom Gugliotta/Dirk comparisons.

 

[Yawkey Way]

as if anyone cares about 7th in MVP voting..

Ginobili is an explosive scorer and a great sixth man, no one is arguing that. But to come up with all of these crazy idea's to say, " Oh well if he had Ray's minutes his numbers would be this this and this" is stupid. You can't predict someones numbers, especially if you were to take Ginobili out of his comfort zone and make him a starter.

Just this past year, Manu started 7 games. In those 7 games he saw every offensive statistic drop with the more minute he got. Now that could be because he might change his style of play, he may get tired, who knows. All i'm saying is that Ginobili is nothing more than a 6th man. A talented 6th man, but not someone who can do a lot of things on his own.

 

[jags224]

ray allen is not a great defender but hes not a horrible defender also anyone who thinks ray allen is just a shooter is completly wrong eddie house is just a shooter. like some others have been saying watch more than one game and by the way ray can take it to the hole in the 2008 finals he did a pretty good job driving it in. the reason why he doesnt drive to whole all the time is because he is an amazing 3pt shooter and the celtics have two people that drive in pierce and rondo they need ray to spread the floor out he could easly create from him self like he's done from time to time in seatle in boston paul pierce is the driver and he kicks it out to open shooters. ray allen could do that if that was his role on the team.

yes he can do all that i never said he couldnt but manu ginobili does all of that BETTER besides shooting, which is why i think hes a better OVERALL player.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Ive never seen Manu disapear in the playoffs the way Ray has done in strches the last 2 years.

Lmfao @ Manu PIGGYBACKING to his championships. What a fucking joke of a statement that is. None of Duncan, Parker, or Manu are piggybacking off each other.

 

[Archer]

Cmon man, the guy made 1 All Star team, ONE. To bring up the fact that he was an All-Star means absolutely nothing. A perennial All-Star being regulated to the bench actually holds a lil weight.

A career role player, being an All-Star for one season, then regulated to the bench means he is back where he belongs.

Might as well bring out the Tom Gugliotta/Dirk comparisons.

Hes a top SG/All Star SG whichever way you want to spin it . If you would like to show me 3 or 4 better SG's then please do so because I would like to see this list

If you have him ranked at 3 or 4 then it goes to show how many Shooting Guards that start are behind him

I only quoted your post because you made the dumbest comment in this thread imo by saying if he was so good he wouldnt be on the bench or something along those lines .

Do you honestly beleive that right now Ray Allen is a better player? Right at this current moment , they are both fit and healthy we will say . Do you honestly think Ray Allen is a better player?

If you think he is then there is no point in me continuing because it seems like we will never agree and will just agree to disagree.

Once again I only brung up all star/ top Shooting Gaurds because you made that comment about how he would'nt be on the bench if he was so good

 

[Thesportsguy]

as if anyone cares about 7th in MVP voting..

Ginobili is an explosive scorer and a great sixth man, no one is arguing that. But to come up with all of these crazy idea's to say, " Oh well if he had Ray's minutes his numbers would be this this and this" is stupid. You can't predict someones numbers, especially if you were to take Ginobili out of his comfort zone and make him a starter.

Just this past year, Manu started 7 games. In those 7 games he saw every offensive statistic drop with the more minute he got. Now that could be because he might change his style of play, he may get tired, who knows. All i'm saying is that Ginobili is nothing more than a 6th man. A talented 6th man, but not someone who can do a lot of things on his own.

good point hes a good or even great sixth man ray has been in the league a long time starting along time and hes is a perennial allstar unlike manu who is just a great sixth man.

 

[Archer]

If he was good, he would've been a starter.

This is the comment I'm talking about ^

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Cmon man, the guy made 1 All Star team, ONE. To bring up the fact that he was an All-Star means absolutely nothing. A perennial All-Star being regulated to the bench actually holds a lil weight.

A career role player, being an All-Star for one season, then regulated to the bench means he is back where he belongs.

Might as well bring out the Tom Gugliotta/Dirk comparisons.

LMFAO @ trying to say Manu was "relegated" to the bench. Come on.. if you have a brain you know Manu coming off the bench is a moot point because hes on the court when it matters and plays starters minutes. Pop likes his spark off the bench. Trying to swing it like hes a real bench player is beyond retarded. You're underrating Manu Ginobili BIG TIME.