whos the better overall player Ray Allen or Manu Ginobili

[Kuzzy Powers]

does he start though no!!!!!!!!!

i named 5 people better than him what do you have to say about that

the bench thing is a big deal ray is 33 and hes started his whole career if your a starter you whole career that means something. manu is a sixth man

If you honestly dont believe Manu could move into the starting 5 at any time and not miss a beat I dont know what to tell you. Its evident Manu should be topping out at 30 minutes or so a night, whether they're coming off the bench or not is irrelevant. Hes on the court in the 4th Q when it matters.

Do you honestly believe Michael Finley or Roger Mason are better than Ginobili? Come on dude... coming off the bench is irrelevant and the fact that some of you are trying to use that against Manu is simply laughable.

 

[jags224]

does he start though no!!!!!!!!!

i named 5 people better than him what do you have to say about that the bench thing is a big deal ray is 33 and hes started his whole career if your a starter you whole career that means something. manu is a sixth man

hes also blinded from homerism he lives in boston.

you didnt name 5 dumbass you named 2 maybeeeeee 3

sports guy tell me why ray allen is better

 

[Archer]

blinded by homerism...if you go back and read any of my posts i haven't even said that Ray is better. I don't think Ray is a better player, but to try and knock me for saying stuff like he's a 6th man at best, and then to come back and argue a point with stats from 2005, BEFORE the injury problems,BEFORE the "7 game starting spell" that i mentioned, and quite honestly when the Spurs were an overall better team is no better.

Ok then , the Ray Allen lovers cant use the 9 all star games or years of starting that he did in Seattle

Oh wait that would be the end of the argument

Of course the last time he consitently started has some importance . Calling him nothing but a good 6th man for me is moot because in most other systems he wouldnt be a 6th man , hes there because of Pop's system , nothing else , nothing more .

He plays starters minutes against the starters normally and excells while doing so.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Ok then , the Ray Allen lovers cant use the 9 all star games or years of starting that he did in Seattle

Oh wait that would be the end of the argument

Of course the last time he consitently started has some importance . Calling him nothing but a good 6th man for me is moot because in most other systems he wouldnt be a 6th man , hes there because of Pop's system , nothing else , nothing more .

He plays starters minutes against the starters normally and excells while doing so.

maybe you should go back one page and look at my post when i said i don't put stock into all-star voting

 

[Thesportsguy]

hes also blinded from homerism he lives in boston.

you didnt name 5 dumbass you named 2 maybeeeeee 3

sports guy tell me why ray allen is better

Ray allen is better because hes a far better shooter and is clutcher and is a 9 time allstar and averages 20.9 points a game for his career and 4.4 rebounds

 

[Joey P]

LOL, a civil bball discussion turned into insults.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Ray allen is better because hes a far better shooter and is clutcher and is a 9 time allstar and averages 20.9 points a game for his career and 4.4 rebounds

 

[Archer]

maybe you should go back one page and look at my post when i said i don't put stock into all-star voting

I saw the post then I also saw you call Manu nothing but a great 6th man . Nothing more or less was the basic jist of your post

You dont get into the all star team for nothing , espically in a place like San Antonio where everybody thinks your boring as fuck and bearly tunes in to start with . So if he could make an all-star team starting then that means he is more than a "great 6th man"

He also plays starters minutes against the starters when it matters . Way more than what you made him out to be

 

[The Messenger]

no one gives a fuck about '05. The question isn't who was a better overall player 4 years ago it's who is the better overall player right now.

And with that in mind, I don't think there is a valid argument for Ray being better other than Ginobili missed half of last year being injured. However, when Ginobili is on the court, he's easily the better overall player.

As Kuzzy said, you are terribly underrating Ginobili's role. He isn't just a great sixth man. He's not even really a sixth man. He's a starter who comes into the game 5 minutes later, plays all of the quality minutes, and is the 2-3rd best player on that team.

The Spurs couldn't sniff the Finals with Ginobili as the franchise guy? Well no shit, but how many players can actually be a franchise guy on a team that has the potential to win the championship? Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Chauncey Billups, Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett.... There's maybe another guy or two in the league, but the levels of franchise guys are guys like Chris Paul, Brandon Roy, and Joe Johnson (guys who can lead their team to the playoffs, but don't have it in them at this point to be Finals guys), and then guys like Al Jefferson, Devin Harris, and Kevin Durant (guys who can be franchise guys, but haven't shown they can produce more wins than losses for their team).

And let's not go through the whole take away Duncan and Parker and the Spurs couldn't win a championship thing because no other player in the history of the NBA has won a championship on their own without a complementary star. As far as winning anything period, well after the big three, the Spurs are nothing but elderly role players. You could put Manu on the Hawks instead of Joe Johnson and I believe they do just as good if not a little better. Manu on the Blazers and they do just as good, maybe a win or two less.

Just a great sixth man? Kobe labeled him as the toughest competitor in the NBA.

 

[Yawkey Way]

teeeccchhniicaallyy he played 4 less minutes off the bench than when he started.


MY POINT IS VALID/YOU LOSE.

 

[jags224]

Ray allen is better because hes a far better shooter and is clutcher and is a 9 time allstar and averages 20.9 points a game for his career and 4.4 rebounds

.....omg and manu is averaging 4.1 with 10 minutes less than ray allen, ginobili can pass better play D better get to the freethrow line whenever. has a good stroke, and is crafty as hell

 

[The Messenger]

Cmon man, the guy made 1 All Star team, ONE. To bring up the fact that he was an All-Star means absolutely nothing. A perennial All-Star being regulated to the bench actually holds a lil weight.

A career role player, being an All-Star for one season, then regulated to the bench means he is back where he belongs.

Might as well bring out the Tom Gugliotta/Dirk comparisons.

You're a horrible poster for one.

Two, learn what a role player is. A role player is a guy like Drew Gooden who can grab rebounds for the team and the team needs him to fulfill that role. Bruce Bowen is a defensive stopper and the team needs him to fill that role. Roger Mason is a three point shooter and the team needs him to fill that role. A role player is a guy who is needed to excel at one part of the game for the team.

Manu Ginobili isn't a role player. He's a complementary star on the Spurs, and a franchise guy on some other teams.

lol @ the All-Star and bench arguments. Funny shit.

 

[Thesportsguy]

manu averages 14.7 for his career in 7 years.

ray allen averages 20.9 for his career in 13 year his lowest total for a season is 13.4 which was his rookie year

 

[Yawkey Way]

I saw the post then I also saw you call Manu nothing but a great 6th man . Nothing more or less was the basic jist of your post

You dont get into the all star team for nothing , espically in a place like San Antonio where everybody thinks your boring as fuck and bearly tunes in to start with . So if he could make an all-star team starting then that means he is more than a "great 6th man"

He also plays starters minutes against the starters when it matters . Way more than what you made him out to be

yes yes i get it, i shouldn't of called him nothing more than a 6th man. He is a good player, don't get me wrong and i never doubted that. The only reason i even said anything after my first post is because Dwight keeps trying to bring the argument back to 2005.

In 2004-2005 Manu averaged 30 minutes a game, 16 points, 4 assists, and 1.6 steals. And he missed 4 more games than Allen, not that thats a big deal. But in a starter role he still averaged 30 minutes.

Allen averaged 39 minutes a game starting, 24 points, 4 assists, and 1 assist. Manu wasn't any more dangerous as a starter 4 years ago than he is/was as a 6th man.

 

[The Messenger]

manu averages 14.7 for his career in 7 years.

ray allen averages 20.9 for his career in 13 year his lowest total for a season is 13.4 which was his rookie year

You're arguing fucking stats in an argument on who is a more complete player? You're an idiot and also a horrible poster. I've seen nothing but shit from you thus far.

 

[Thesportsguy]

You're arguing fucking stats in an argument on who is a more complete player? You're an idiot and also a horrible poster. I've seen nothing but shit from you thus far.

1.kiss my ass

2.your a dumbass stats do matter when comparing a player your an idiot if you dont think that they matter what do you go by then

3.your a horrible poster and you have been saying the dumbest things ive heard stats dont matter what a dumbass get some fucking knowledge about basketball you dumbass people compare stats all the time.

 

[Yawkey Way]

.....omg and manu is averaging 4.1 with 10 minutes less than ray allen, ginobili can pass better play D better get to the freethrow line whenever. has a good stroke, and is crafty as hell

if your going to base your arguments off of cliche labels that the guy has then i give up.

Allen attempted 3 free throws a game, had a steal a game, shot 95% from the line and 48% from the field.

Ginobili attempted 4 free throws a game, had 1.5 steals a game, shot 88% from the free throw line, and 45% from the field. Not to mention he only shot 33% from three opposed to allen's 40%.

He's crafty as hell, lol.

If he wants to make things harder on himself be my guest, but if you can get 2 points by spotting up or coming off a screen, they are the same 2 points as a ridiculous drive in the lane where he gets hit hard and then has to go to the line,

 

[Joey P]

You're a horrible poster for one.

Two, learn what a role player is. A role player is a guy like Drew Gooden who can grab rebounds for the team and the team needs him to fulfill that role. Bruce Bowen is a defensive stopper and the team needs him to fill that role. Roger Mason is a three point shooter and the team needs him to fill that role. A role player is a guy who is needed to excel at one part of the game for the team.

Manu Ginobili isn't a role player. He's a complementary star on the Spurs, and a franchise guy on some other teams.

lol @ the All-Star and bench arguments. Funny shit.

Forgive me, I didn't know we was getting graded on posting. Maybe I need to throw more fucks and shits in my posts so I can fit in.

Sorry, Duncan and Parker are the ones that make SA go, Ginobili just helps.

I've seen enough of his kind when Kukoc played here. Pair him up with 2 great players, he seems like he is niiiice. Put him on his own, he sucks hard.

Fuck Manu weak ass...does that make me a better poster now?

 

[jags224]

manu averages 14.7 for his career in 7 years.

ray allen averages 20.9 for his career in 13 year his lowest total for a season is 13.4 which was his rookie year

okay..usually it takes players 3 -6 years to actually get into the groove and grow into a good player. ray allen came into the league what 22-23 years old around there, he had plenty of time to grow and shit. manu came into the league at 26 and he kept on getting better each year points reb assist all going up each year 2006-2007 year ginobili had his best season yet putting up 19.5 ppg 4 and 3, it took 5 years and hes 31, and does shit on the other side of the ball that people dont really pay attention to, he gets steals and draws charges, Flop or not.

 

[Archer]

1.kiss my ass

2.your a dumbass stats do matter when comparing a player you an idiot if you dont think that they matter what do you go by then

3.your a horrible poster and you have been saying the dumbest things ive heard stats dont matter what a dumbass get some fucking knowledge about basketball you dumbass people compare stats all the time.

Your bringing up Allen's PPG , Allen is a better shooter so of course he has better PPG in his career (considering neither are get in close guys) . We are talking about who is more complete not who scores the most points , you nicely avoided all defensive stats

Then we can talk about the stats that dont show up , making a player miss all night with a hand in his face , toughess and hustle . 3 things in which Manu does well that there isint many recognised stats for .

And the people who compare stats all the time are fucking retarded

A complete player is not measured by PPG or APG and never will be