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Would you allow your son to play football?

I just want to start out by saying amarant, you are quite possibly the most ignorant person I've ever come across that speaks matter of factly about a serious issue.


Unless I am missing it, I have seen no concrete studies here

You're missing a lot actually. Studies abound. Pretty impossible for something like this to be clinically studied, though some things have been. Such as research showing the concussions are actually worse for adolescents than adults. This is a case were epidiomoligical research is going to be at the forefront and where these stats are coming from.

furthermore there has been no age specified and whether these were repeat head traumas that caused these.

Irrelevant. What we do know is that repeat head traumas happen, and are actually common. We also know that repeat head traumas cause much worse long term damage.

Basically I see no valid reason to be of concern more than the fact that trauma does happen and cause damage.

That's like saying "I see no valid reason to be concerned with jumping off this bridge more than the fact that gravity does exist and the ground causes damage"

Do we know 1.) if these youth players sustained injuries prior to having the permanent damage done? Every study and everything every league from the NFL to Youth and is even mentioned by the CDC is to recognize when the trauma first occurs and remove them until they can seek medical attention. There is no evidence here supporting that this has occurred and these permanent effects are still there.

Your English sucks. Rephrase this so it makes sense.


2.) if there is any linkage between the size of the players, because god knows all kids are not created the same. Some kids are larger and more developed at earlier age while some are slow to develop and are undersized. Also if there is any consistency with positions played due to these injuries, some positions take a ton more abuse than others, primarily the QB and RBs in youth football.

Again, irrelevant.

3.) there has never been any statistic thrown out other than the one from the Sports Medicine and Trauma center that I posted, which stated that in 1998(14 years ago) that injury rates were at 5% and of those some 61% were moderate and 38.9% major injuries(it does not specify, could bone breaks be considered major?).

Never huh?

And a study from the National Center for Injury Prevention found that 47% of high school football players say they suffer a concussion each season, with 35% of those reporting multiple concussions in a season.

But most sports-related concussions -- about 85% -- go undiagnosed, according to the American College of Sports Medicine.


http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/features/football-player-concussions?page=2

Seems like a lot of statistics being thrown out there. Are you really so fucking dumb that you think the latest statistics are from 1998? Seriously?

I'm not going to reply to the rest of your post because frankly, your posts are all full of idiocy and strong lack of understanding for science, and a lack of knowledge of the existing evidence.

Football accounts for over half of all high school sports related concussions. That's pretty fucking telling, and makes your "injuries happen in baseball too" statement look pretty dumb.
 
Thanks RS. Saved me a lot of time this AM.

amarant is looking for an excuse to let his kid play football. He can rationalize it all he wants to but to somehow try and argue that repeated head trauma doesn't occur in football at the youth level then all of a sudden appears once they enter HS is pretty fucking stupid

21: Legal age to drink

18: Legal age for tobacco, porn, voting, the draft

16: Legal age to drive

14: Legal age to start getting head trauma
 
KOF asked how youth league players generate enough force to injure each other. I've seen several youth league games...my friend's son played in a league. The problem is that the kids don't have enough body control to protect themselves. And the helmets themselves are somewhat dangerous, because they are usually too heavy for a kid's neck muscles. My friend's son played RB, and one play he was knocked out for 10 minutes. A couple kids wrapped him up, and when he fell to the ground he couldn't protect himself and hit facemask first. Quite scary. And the games are terrible. I guess the kids would learn about the rules of the game, but the gameplay is more like rugby than anything.

Football is a sport you can walk into in high school and earn a D1 scholarship by the time you leave if you are physically talented and good enough. Sports like baseball, golf, soccer, etc. require years of practice and acquired skill in order to become elite.

I don't see how this is relevant, and if anything this should be a negative for having your kid play football as opposed to baseball, golf, soccer, etc. If my son is a decent athlete and he dedicates himself to baseball, golf, soccer, there is a chance that he will earn a D1 scholarship. But football is very dependent on a person's physical size. My son could be the best HS football player in the area, but if he's a 170 lb RB, I don't think the SEC schools will be lining up at the door.

I played football in HS and was pretty good (4.4 speed, 300 lb. bench press, 750 lb. dead lift), but when I went to college and got to know some of the football players, it was an eye-opening experience. The guys were just as athletic as me, but the difference was that they were literally twice my size. Their arms were the size of my legs. I think you are vastly underestimating D1 football.
 
So much truth Senser. I met Chauncey when he was a junior at Florida State (plays for the Bears now) and his thighs are the width of my torso. 6'2 280lbs 12% bf looks pretty damn massive in person.
 
The more Im reading up the more I very much dislike Youth Football and how slow its moving in protecting kids. H.S College I get since there's so much "old school" entrenched in it but Youth football is very parent dependent so kind of shocked how clueless or careless they are.
Sensers 100% right about the helmets being too heavy most kids look like bobble head in them and dont have the body control to deal with that Helmet/Pads without that frequent loss of balance.


Lastly while football is certainly something you can just go into H.S and dominate you do have to be pretty freakish to just waltz in and be a stud there and in D1. Lineplay is particularly tough because most of these big kids are already "Berawkward" and there sense of balance and movement is comical at best. It takes years of development to properly use your feet , hips ,and hands and learn the leverage involved. Unless they're wrestling they simply arent going to have that base from any other sport.
 
Like Senser said, D1 football players are absolutely terrifying in size. I can't even begin to imagine what a hit from a LB is like at that level. When I went to USC, Taylor Mays' neck was as thick as my thigh and Tyron Smith's chest was as wide as two of my entire body. And Taylor Mays runs a 4.3 or something...

Also, to stevsta: the line is not the only position at-risk. In fact, the most at-risk positions for CTE in football are the lines (offensive and defensive) as well as defensive backs. And it only seems natural to think that backers (half, full, and line-) are right behind them.
 
I don't see how this is relevant, and if anything this should be a negative for having your kid play football as opposed to baseball, golf, soccer, etc. If my son is a decent athlete and he dedicates himself to baseball, golf, soccer, there is a chance that he will earn a D1 scholarship. But football is very dependent on a person's physical size. My son could be the best HS football player in the area, but if he's a 170 lb RB, I don't think the SEC schools will be lining up at the door.

That's exactly what I was getting at with that statement. If my son resembles me physically, then he will be too small to play college football but a decent athlete. I never played baseball and I think I could have definitely been good enough to play in high school had I learned the fundamentals acquired the skills at a young age.

Basketball was my first passion and then I turned to football in high school when I realized I was way too short to start on the high school basketball team. I won't deter my son from any sports, but I will definitely want him to think about playing sports that suit him physically as he develops and gets closer to high school.
 
Harry Carson's attitudes are well known. Here's Ann Ligouri recapping them...

Harry Carson, who works tirelessly to educate the sports world on post-concussion syndrome, explained that the reason he wrote his latest book, “Captain for Life,” and shared the details of his suffering from post-concussion syndrome from years of playing in the NFL, is because “there are no voices out there, especially ‘Hall of Fame’ voices, discussing this issue.” Carson continued: “If I had to do it all over again, I would not have played football. I already told my daughter that my two-year-old grandson will not play football! I’ve already played the game. I’ve seen the damage…The brain is the most complex body part that we have and we really have to protect it because in a blink of an eye, everything can change…”
 
Some of you probably have read this, but I thought it applied to this thread.

What Would the End of Football Look Like?

The NFL is done for the year, but it is not pure fantasy to suggest that it may be done for good in the not-too-distant future. How might such a doomsday scenario play out and what would be the economic and social consequences?

By now we're all familiar with the growing phenomenon of head injuries and cognitive problems among football players, even at the high school level. In 2009, Malcolm Gladwell asked whether football might someday come to an end, a concern seconded recently by Jonah Lehrer.

Before you say that football is far too big to ever disappear, consider the history: If you look at the stocks in the Fortune 500 from 1983, for example, 40 percent of those companies no longer exist. The original version of Napster no longer exists, largely because of lawsuits. No matter how well a business matches economic conditions at one point in time, it's not a lock to be a leader in the future, and that is true for the NFL too. Sports are not immune to these pressures. In the first half of the 20th century, the three big sports were baseball, boxing, and horse racing, and today only one of those is still a marquee attraction.

The most plausible route to the death of football starts with liability suits.1 Precollegiate football is already sustaining 90,000 or more concussions each year. If ex-players start winning judgments, insurance companies might cease to insure colleges and high schools against football-related lawsuits. Coaches, team physicians, and referees would become increasingly nervous about their financial exposure in our litigious society. If you are coaching a high school football team, or refereeing a game as a volunteer, it is sobering to think that you could be hit with a $2 million lawsuit at any point in time. A lot of people will see it as easier to just stay away. More and more modern parents will keep their kids out of playing football, and there tends to be a "contagion effect" with such decisions; once some parents have second thoughts, many others follow suit. We have seen such domino effects with the risks of smoking or driving without seatbelts, two unsafe practices that were common in the 1960s but are much rarer today. The end result is that the NFL's feeder system would dry up and advertisers and networks would shy away from associating with the league, owing to adverse publicity and some chance of being named as co-defendants in future lawsuits.

It may not matter that the losses from these lawsuits are much smaller than the total revenue from the sport as a whole. As our broader health care sector indicates (try buying private insurance when you have a history of cancer treatment), insurers don't like to go where they know they will take a beating. That means just about everyone could be exposed to fear of legal action.

This slow death march could easily take 10 to 15 years. Imagine the timeline. A couple more college players — or worse, high schoolers — commit suicide with autopsies showing CTE. A jury makes a huge award of $20 million to a family. A class-action suit shapes up with real legs, the NFL keeps changing its rules, but it turns out that less than concussion levels of constant head contact still produce CTE. Technological solutions (new helmets, pads) are tried and they fail to solve the problem. Soon high schools decide it isn't worth it. The Ivy League quits football, then California shuts down its participation, busting up the Pac-12. Then the Big Ten calls it quits, followed by the East Coast schools. Now it's mainly a regional sport in the southeast and Texas/Oklahoma. The socioeconomic picture of a football player becomes more homogeneous: poor, weak home life, poorly educated. Ford and Chevy pull their advertising, as does IBM and eventually the beer companies.

There's a lot less money in the sport, and at first it's "the next hockey" and then it's "the next rugby," and finally the franchises start to shutter.

Along the way, you would have an NFL with much lower talent levels, less training, and probably greater player representation from poorer countries, where the demand for money is higher and the demand for safety is lower. Finally, the NFL is marginalized as less-dangerous sports gobble up its market share. People — American people — might actually start calling "soccer" by the moniker of "football."

Despite its undeniable popularity — and the sense that the game is everywhere — the aggregate economic effect of losing the NFL would not actually be that large. League revenues are around $10 billion per year while U.S. GDP is around $15,300 billion. But that doesn't mean everyone would be fine.

Big stadiums will lose a lot of their value and that will drag down neighboring bars and restaurants, causing a lot of them to shut their doors. Cable TV will be less profitable, and this will hasten the movement of TV-watching, if we can still call it that, to the web. Super Bowl Sunday will no longer be the best time to go shopping for a new car at the dealership.

Take Green Bay as a case study: A 2009 study of the economic impact of the Packers' stadium estimated "$282 million in output, 2,560 jobs and $124.3 million in earnings, and $15.2 million in tax revenues." That's small potatoes for the national economy as a whole, but for a small and somewhat remote city of 104,000, it is a big deal indeed.2

Any location where football is the only game in town will suffer. If the Jets and Giants go, New York still has numerous other pro sports teams, Broadway, high-end shopping, skyscrapers, fine dining, and many other cultural activities. If college football dies, Norman, Oklahoma (current home to one of us), has … noodling? And what about Clemson, in South Carolina, which relies on the periodic weekend football surge into town for its restaurant and retail sales? Imagine a small place of 12,000 people that periodically receives a sudden influx of 100,000 visitors or more, most of them eager to spend money on what is one of their major leisure outings. It's like a port in the Caribbean losing its cruise ship traffic. (Overall, the loss of football could actually increase migration from rural to urban areas over time. Football-dependent areas are especially prominent in rural America, and some of them will lose a lot of money and jobs.)

Outside of sports, American human capital and productivity probably rise. No football Saturdays on college campuses means less binge drinking, more studying, better grades, smarter future adults. Losing thousands of college players and hundreds of pro players might produce a few more doctors or engineers. Plus, talented coaches and general managers would gravitate toward management positions in American industry. Heck, just getting rid of fantasy football probably saves American companies hundreds of millions of dollars annually.

Other losers include anything that depends heavily on football to be financially viable, including the highly subsidized non-revenue collegiate sports. No more air travel for the field hockey teams or golf squads. Furthermore, many prominent universities would lose their main claim to fame. Alabama and LSU produce a large amount of revenue and notoriety from football without much in the way of first-rate academics to back it up. Schools would have to compete more on academics to be nationally prominent, which would again boost American education.

One of the biggest winners would be basketball. To the extent that fans replace football with another sport (instead of meth or oxy), high-octane basketball is the natural substitute. On the pro level, the season can stretch out leisurely, ticket prices rise, ratings rise, maybe the league expands (more great athletes in the pool now), and some of the centers and power forwards will have more bulk. At the college level, March Madness becomes the only game in town.

Another winner would be track and field. Future Rob Gronkowskis in the decathlon? Future Jerome Simpsons in the high jump? World records would fall at a rapid pace.

This outcome may sound ridiculous, but the collapse of football is more likely than you might think. If recent history has shown anything, it is that observers cannot easily imagine the big changes in advance. Very few people were predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union, the reunification of Germany, or the rise of China as an economic power. Once you start thinking through how the status quo might unravel, a sports universe without the NFL at its center no longer seems absurd.

So … Tennis, anyone?

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7559458/cte-concussion-crisis-economic-look-end-football
 
Not a chance in hell I'd ever let my son play football.

As usual, most of the comments or the pro-football people are bringing "big collisions" and concussions into the discussion when the game itself has been proven to cause head injury. High school players have shown signs of CTE. It begins the second you put on a helmet and start banging your head around for hours at a time. Doesn't take any major injury or major hit to make it happen but the repeated smaller hits to the head that is slowly damaging the brain. There's no way to really avoid it if you want to play football.

Concussions are obviously a huge deal but even if you take out the probability of getting one there are still extreme dangers in playing football at any level.
 
I think American football could take on many of the traits of rugby and turn out to remain a very dynamic and exciting sport. Certainly one that's good enough to keep garbage sports like NBA basketball from stealing viewers.
 
My son (12 y/o) played football last year and took a fair share of big shots, usually to the body. Hes tall (he was about 5'9 at the time) and really thin (around 115 when the season ended) and faster than pretty much everyone in the league, but in practice the coaches had him running drills with linemen and taking shots from his own damn team constantly. As a person that shredded his own knee playing football, i would prefer him not to play but im not the type of parent to push my kid into a sport, or prevent him from trying something he had interest in. He loved playing at first (since he could outrun everyone) but once the coach started sitting him "so everyone can play" he grew so irritated that I think hes done with the sport. Although I think he could be pretty good if he stuck with it, im very happy he feels that way. Last thing I want is for him to fuck up his knees, or end up with a concussion.
 
I'm laughing at your idea that the NBA is an awful sport, like that has any bearing on the conversation at hand. But what's a hockey or football discussion without an NBA sideswipe?!

Well you need to quit being a little bitch there buddy.

I was simply saying that a bastardized version of football would still be more exciting than basketball which was specifically mentioned as one to benefit from the demise of football in ralaw's article.
 
Well you need to quit being a little bitch there buddy.

I was simply saying that a bastardized version of football would still be more exciting than basketball which was specifically mentioned as one to benefit from the demise of football in ralaw's article.

Just stop talking about basketball since it's clear you'd rather take a kick to the nuts than have an open mind about it. :thumbsup:
 
At this point, I'm not sure if I'll forbid my kid from playing if he really wants to, but I will damn sure not be encouraging him to do so.
 
I don't football is going anywhere. It's too consistent of a proven money maker for too many people in every economic class to just go away.

It will really just become a sport where you make a decision if you want your kid to play or not, so not much different. I'm sure more mothers and fathers will stop their kid from doing it, and it likely will fall on the lesser social-economic ladder.
 
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