You have one game.

[Irish]

Mantle - 2415 hits, 536 home runs, .298 average. 3 time MVP. 18 seasons

Mays - 3283 hits, 660 home runs, .302 average. 2 time MVP. 22 seasons.

 

[FirstTimer]

That was the rule Firsttimer. We all know Gehrig played his best ball post 1930. We all know Gehrig would start at 1st base.

80s baseball and 90s baseball are two different games, that is not the reason why 1930 was the cut off. It just was a date we through out while discussing. Simple as that. This isn't a game about build the all time best team. This is a build the best team post 1930.

Then what's the rationalization for "baseball being very different" before 1930?

What was so different pre 1930 as opposed to pre 1940? Pre 1950? Pre 1960?

Stop shitting on this guys thread. Jesus fucking christ.

:yell:


C-Gaby Hartnett
1B: Gehrig
2B: Roger Hornsby
3B: Fred Baker
SS: Honus Wagner
LF: Joe Jackson
CF: Ty Cobb
RF: Ruth

LHP: Lefty Grove
RHP: Old Hoss Radbourn

 

[FirstTimer]

It is not like we had no clue about baseball players before 1930. We know guys like Ruth, Cobb, Wagner and etc. are great players and would make everybodies teams. They are some of the greatest to ever play the game of baseball. It is not like we didn't appreciate the history and the impact these guys made. It was just a discussion to keep things more recent. It is no different than if I made the cut off at 1990. Like I said it not an all time greatest team thread.

Well thank God players from 1931 makes it more recent.

 

[Irish]

Then what's the rationalization for "baseball being very different" before 1930?

What was so different pre 1930 as opposed to pre 1940? Pre 1950? Pre 1960?

Because we agreed the cut off to be 1930. That is why.

 

[FirstTimer]

Because we agreed the cut off to be 1930. That is why.

That's not the reason you gave:

Baseball was a much different game back then.

 

[Irish]

That's not the reason you gave:

I did not think you would take it so literally. I figured you would just need a simple reason and move on. Not moan and moan about it and take away from the discussion.

 

[FirstTimer]

I did not think you would take it so literally. I figured you would just need a simple reason and move on. Not moan and moan about it and take away from the discussion.

1. How else was I supposed to take it? Figuratively?

2. Learn to VSN/D.

 

[NAHSTE]

I still want answers from Lan on why he chose Mantle over Mays and why Roberto Clemente is in over Aaron, Williams or Guerrero.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Mantle over Mays isn't crazy. Only knock on Mantle is the injuries. If he hadn't stepped in the drain pipe when he was 23 and fucked up his knee, he may have been the best ever.

 

[Sharkweather]

Mantle over Mays isn't crazy. Only knock on Mantle is the injuries. If he hadn't stepped in the drain pipe when he was 23 and fucked up his knee, he may have been the best ever.

Also crazy to think the numbers he would have had if he had played sober his entire career.

 

[NAHSTE]

Mantle over Mays isn't crazy. Only knock on Mantle is the injuries. If he hadn't stepped in the drain pipe when he was 23 and fucked up his knee, he may have been the best ever.

I'm a huge Mantle fan but I still think it's crazy.

 

[FirstTimer]

Mantle over Mays isn't crazy. Only knock on Mantle is the injuries. If he hadn't stepped in the drain pipe when he was 23 and fucked up his knee, he may have been the best ever.

He was actually 19. :smug:

Scary....

 

[inthecards21]

Why do players before 1930 not count?

Not sure I would want anyone like Honus Wagner or Nat Lajoie playing on my team. Athletes are much better nowadays than back then

 

[Lanteri]

I still want answers from Lan on why he chose Mantle over Mays and why Roberto Clemente is in over Aaron, Williams or Guerrero.

a) Guerrero's not even in the discussion of best RFer of all time for me. And Ted Williams is a LFer, and is my starting LFer so I'm not really sure what your beef is there. I'd take Frank Robinson, Aaron, Clemente, Al Kaline, Tony Gwynn, etc. before considering Vlad. He's a great player, but not on t he same level.

As for taking Clemente over Aaron? Clemente was a 4 time batting champ, and arguably the greatest defensive RFer of all time. Aaron's the best offensive RFer of all time, but Clemente's all around game seals it for me.

b) Both Mickey and Mays in their prime were fantastic players, but give me Mickey at his finest any day over Mays. You can't understate the value of being a switch hitter as well. Mays obviously was the better fielder of the two, but I'll take Mantle's bat without question

 

[NAHSTE]

a) Guerrero's not even in the discussion of best RFer of all time for me.

That's cool, but he's had a better statistical career than Clemente, had an equal arm when he was at his best in the field and provided more base running value. I really think Vlad was the evolutionary Clemente so it's hard for me to see picking version 1.0 over 2.0. Plus if the parameters are that you get this player in his prime, it's hard for any RF to fuck with Vlad's 2000 season.

I'd take Frank Robinson, Aaron, Clemente, Al Kaline, Tony Gwynn, etc. before considering Vlad. He's a great player, but not on t he same level.

That's all fine, and I'd take most of those other guys over Clemente. We're obviously splitting hairs over hall of famers so it's gonna get nitpicky.

b) Both Mickey and Mays in their prime were fantastic players, but give me Mickey at his finest any day over Mays. You can't understate the value of being a switch hitter as well. Mays obviously was the better fielder of the two, but I'll take Mantle's bat without question

Fair enough, the switch hitter point is definitely worth factoring in.

 

[Irish]

Clemente(18 seasons) - 3000 hits, 240 home runs, 2 seasons over 100 RBIs, .317 career average, 83 stolen bases, 1 MVP, 12 time all star, 266 outfield assists, 1230 Strikeouts

Guerrero(16 seasons) - 2502 hits, 442 home runs, 10 seasons over 100 RBIs, .319 career average, 179 stolen bases, 1 MVP, 9 time all star, 126 outfield assists, 960 Strikeouts

Interesting comparisons.

 

[NAHSTE]

Clemente(18 seasons) - 3000 hits, 240 home runs, 2 seasons over 100 RBIs, .317 career average, 83 stolen bases, 1 MVP, 12 time all star, 266 outfield assists, 1230 Strikeouts

Guerrero(16 seasons) - 2502 hits, 442 home runs, 10 seasons over 100 RBIs, .319 career average, 179 stolen bases, 1 MVP, 9 time all star, 126 outfield assists, 960 Strikeouts

Interesting comparisons.

Interesting indeed. You forgot these:

Vlad .381 OBP, .557 SLG
Roberto .359, .475 SLG


Clemente has a huge edge in career fWAR (91-63) largely because he remained a great fielder for his entire career, but I do believe this thread is based on the players at their peak. Before the back problems hit him Vlad was equal in arm, defense and superior in base running, slugging and batting. I had a Roberto Clemente poster hanging in my bedroom for 20 years, but I gotta go with the Impailer. Expos-era Vlad > Clemente.

 

[Obst]

LF- Ted Williams
CF- Willie Mays
RF- Hank Aaron
SS- Alex Rodriguez
3B- Mike Schmidt
2B- Ryne Sandberg
1B- Eddie Murray
C- Yogi Berra
RHP- Tom Seaver
LHP- Warren Spahn