Most overrated player in baseball

[FedEx227]

Well yeah, Crawford is horribly overrated and grossly overpaid. Good player but nowhere near worth the deal he got. Just happened to be in a light free agent class.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Ichiro is overrated in the sense that he's paid like a superstar but generates runs like a slap hitter.

200 singles are impressive, but they don't help your team a whole lot. Add in the fact that he's really not getting on base anymore than most of the other superstars takes him out of that class for me. Career 117 OPS+ doesn't deserve to be in the highest paid category of players.

Are you saying he's overrtaed, or over paid?

Yes, let's boil his production down to one neat, tidy, OPS+ number. That's fair. He never takes a day off, and is a mortal lock for over 200 hits. He never strikes out or hits into DP's. He's a great baserunner and plays defense. He doesn't walk that much, but why would he need to? He's going to have 215 hits and bat well over .300. Hits are better than walks, but that argument is for another day. He knows how to bunt, and he fouls off a million pitches. You'd be insane to not want him hitting somehwere in the top of your order and playing in your OF. He's the kind of player who's value gets clouded in a stat like OPS+.

Now if you want to tell me he's over paid, I'll trust you, because I'm not too much a salary guy and have no clue what he is being paid, or what he is being paid compared to others. Buut for fucks sake, the guy has been a superlative top of the order guy for a decade, and isn't slowing down.

[FedEx227]

I'm not arguing he's a great production, leadoff guy but he's paid like a run-producing superstar. He'd be about 1,000 times better if he hit a double or any extra base hits every once and awhile. Does lengthing his swing to generate more power reduce his amount of pure hits? Possibly, but I think it's well worth it. That's the trade off to me that makes him overrated. He gets a ton of hits which is cool, he undoubtedly makes great contact, but as I said all he really is just an elite slap hitter. What level of superstardom is that?

So I guess you can say overpaid, but I think it's one in the same. He's no doubt good at what he does, but he's not one of the top superstars in the game in my mind despite peoples thoughts and what his checks say.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not arguing he's a great production, leadoff guy but he's paid like a run-producing superstar. He'd be about 1,000 times better if he hit a double or any extra base hits every once and awhile. Does lengthing his swing to generate more power reduce his amount of pure hits? Possibly, but I think it's well worth it. That's the trade off to me that makes him overrated. He gets a ton of hits which is cool, he undoubtedly makes great contact, but as I said all he really is just an elite slap hitter. What level of superstardom is that?

So I guess you can say overpaid, but I think it's one in the same. He's no doubt good at what he does, but he's not one of the top superstars in the game in my mind despite peoples thoughts and what his checks say.

I can buy that.

Personally, i'd bat him second with his bat control, speed, bunting ability, etc. To me, he's the ultimate #2 hitter.

[FirstTimer]

Ichiro is overrated in the sense that he's paid like a superstar but generates runs like a slap hitter.

.

All those singles woul dbe a hell of a lot more valuable if he had anyone hitting behind him. If he played in NY, Boston, Chicago etc no one would care he only hits singles. They be creaming over how he is setting runs scored records.

Are you saying he's overrtaed, or over paid?

Yes, let's boil his production down to one neat, tidy, OPS+ number. That's fair. He never takes a day off, and is a mortal lock for over 200 hits. He never strikes out or hits into DP's. He's a great baserunner and plays defense. He doesn't walk that much, but why would he need to? He's going to have 215 hits and bat well over .300. Hits are better than walks, but that argument is for another day. He knows how to bunt, and he fouls off a million pitches. You'd be insane to not want him hitting somehwere in the top of your order and playing in your OF. He's the kind of player who's value gets clouded in a stat like OPS+.

Now if you want to tell me he's over paid, I'll trust you, because I'm not too much a salary guy and have no clue what he is being paid, or what he is being paid compared to others. Buut for fucks sake, the guy has been a superlative top of the order guy for a decade, and isn't slowing down.

This.

I'm not arguing he's a great production, leadoff guy but he's paid like a run-producing superstar. He'd be about 1,000 times better if he hit a double or any extra base hits every once and awhile. Does lengthing his swing to generate more power reduce his amount of pure hits? Possibly, but I think it's well worth it. That's the trade off to me that makes him overrated. He gets a ton of hits which is cool, he undoubtedly makes great contact, but as I said all he really is just an elite slap hitter. What level of superstardom is that?

So I guess you can say overpaid, but I think it's one in the same. He's no doubt good at what he does, but he's not one of the top superstars in the game in my mind despite peoples thoughts and what his checks say.

To be fair he is in the Top 10 in the league in triples on a pretty consistant basis. He only gets about 20 doubles a season but all things considered you'd have a tough time naming a better leadoff hitter in the entire league.

[FedEx227]

To be fair he is in the Top 10 in the league in triples on a pretty consistant basis. He only gets about 20 doubles a season but all things considered you'd have a tough time naming a better leadoff hitter in the entire league.

2010: 121st
2009: 77th
2008: 19th
2007: 25th
2006: 16th

[FirstTimer]

2010: 121st
2009: 77th
2008: 19th
2007: 25th
2006: 16th

Per baseballref.com
Triples s c a p y
2001 AL 8 (7th)
2002 AL 8 (3rd)
2003 AL 8 (8th)
2005 AL 12 (2nd)
2006 AL 9 (3rd)
2007 AL 7 (9th)
2008 AL 7 (6th)
Active 71 (8th)

[shag773]

Pete Rose had a career OPS of .784 and if I'm not mistaken, was one of, if not the highest payed player in the league, especially when he signed with the Phillies in '79. Was he overrated?

[shag773]

Just to gain some perspective, here are the top 20 salaries of 2010 from Wikipedia. List of highest paid Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many of these players actually outplayed Ichiro last season?

Alex Rodriguez 3B New York Yankees $33,000,000
CC Sabathia SP New York Yankees $24,285,714
Derek Jeter SS New York Yankees $22,600,000
Mark Teixeira 1B New York Yankees $20,625,000
Johan Santana SP New York Mets $20,144,707
Miguel Cabrera 1B Detroit Tigers $20,000,000
Carlos Beltran RF New York Mets $19,401,569
Ryan Howard 1B Philadelphia Phillies $19,000,000
Carlos Lee LF Houston Astros $19,000,000
Alfonso Soriano LF Chicago Cubs $19,000,000
Carlos Zambrano SP Chicago Cubs $18,875,000
John Lackey SP Boston Red Sox $18,700,000
Manny Ramirez LF Los Angeles Dodgers/White Sox $18,695,006
Torii Hunter CF Los Angeles Angels $18,500,000
Barry Zito SP San Francisco Giants $18,500,000
Ichiro Suzuki RF Seattle Mariners $18,000,000
Magglio Ordonez RF Detroit Tigers $17,825,976
Todd Helton 1B Colorado Rockies $17,775,000
Aramis Ramírez 3B Chicago Cubs $16,750,000
A.J. Burnett SP New York Yankees $16,500,000

[FirstTimer]

Just to gain some perspective, here are the top 20 salaries of 2010 from Wikipedia. List of highest paid Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many of these players actually outplayed Ichiro last season?

Alex Rodriguez 3B New York Yankees $33,000,000
CC Sabathia SP New York Yankees $24,285,714
Derek Jeter SS New York Yankees $22,600,000
Mark Teixeira 1B New York Yankees $20,625,000
Johan Santana SP New York Mets $20,144,707
Miguel Cabrera 1B Detroit Tigers $20,000,000
Carlos Beltran RF New York Mets $19,401,569
Ryan Howard 1B Philadelphia Phillies $19,000,000
Carlos Lee LF Houston Astros $19,000,000
Alfonso Soriano LF Chicago Cubs $19,000,000
Carlos Zambrano SP Chicago Cubs $18,875,000
John Lackey SP Boston Red Sox $18,700,000
Manny Ramirez LF Los Angeles Dodgers/White Sox $18,695,006
Torii Hunter CF Los Angeles Angels $18,500,000
Barry Zito SP San Francisco Giants $18,500,000
Ichiro Suzuki RF Seattle Mariners $18,000,000
Magglio Ordonez RF Detroit Tigers $17,825,976
Todd Helton 1B Colorado Rockies $17,775,000
Aramis Ramírez 3B Chicago Cubs $16,750,000
A.J. Burnett SP New York Yankees $16,500,000

Ouch at that list.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Pete Rose had a career OPS of .784 and if I'm not mistaken, was one of, if not the highest payed player in the league, especially when he signed with the Phillies in '79. Was he overrated?

Many people thought he was, but again, here is a guy who would spike his own mother to break up a double play, and do anything it took to win. That stuff rubs off, and he won everywhere he went.

He's another guy who OPS doesn't treat fairly, because its a stat that favors a slugger who K's a lot and hits into DP's, over a good hitter who does neither. Never mind baserunning, fielding, and non boxscore things like moving runners over, going first to third, etc.

This is why I have shifted my thoughts on OPS and OPS+ to using it to compare hitters with similar skill sets, as opposed to "well, this guy was 127, this guy was 108, so that's that." Thats short sighted imo.

[manchild24]

Pete Rose had a career OPS of .784 and if I'm not mistaken, was one of, if not the highest payed player in the league, especially when he signed with the Phillies in '79. Was he overrated?

I'll BET

:saythat:

[manchild24]

Just to gain some perspective, here are the top 20 salaries of 2010 from Wikipedia. List of highest paid Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many of these players actually outplayed Ichiro last season?

Alex Rodriguez 3B New York Yankees $33,000,000
CC Sabathia SP New York Yankees $24,285,714
Derek Jeter SS New York Yankees $22,600,000
Mark Teixeira 1B New York Yankees $20,625,000
Johan Santana SP New York Mets $20,144,707
Miguel Cabrera 1B Detroit Tigers $20,000,000
Carlos Beltran RF New York Mets $19,401,569
Ryan Howard 1B Philadelphia Phillies $19,000,000
Carlos Lee LF Houston Astros $19,000,000
Alfonso Soriano LF Chicago Cubs $19,000,000
Carlos Zambrano SP Chicago Cubs $18,875,000
John Lackey SP Boston Red Sox $18,700,000
Manny Ramirez LF Los Angeles Dodgers/White Sox $18,695,006
Torii Hunter CF Los Angeles Angels $18,500,000
Barry Zito SP San Francisco Giants $18,500,000
Ichiro Suzuki RF Seattle Mariners $18,000,000
Magglio Ordonez RF Detroit Tigers $17,825,976
Todd Helton 1B Colorado Rockies $17,775,000
Aramis Ramírez 3B Chicago Cubs $16,750,000
A.J. Burnett SP New York Yankees $16,500,000

SHag, you could have just typed:

New York Yankees and saved alot of tim.

[manchild24]

Personally I dont care about OPS that much. Just in Ichiro's case (whos low total for doulbes was 27 high 40+ bye the way) whats the differnce if (example only)
Tori Hunter hits 130 singles and 45 doubles 20 steals
Ichiro hits 170 singles 30 doubles and 45 SBs (thats like hitting 75 doubles if he steals frst to second, who cares how he got there.)

[shag773]

Isn't Ichiro the most popular player across the globe as well? Im not saying that has anything to do with being overated but you can take that into account when talking about salaries. He brings the team alot of money from foreigners.

He obviously brings a lot of exposure for MLB to the Japanese fans. I'm not sure what that equates to financially, but it must mean something I guess.