Most overrated player in baseball

[SethMode]

Because if player a plays on a team with a bunch of former MVPs and gets 140 RBIs he isn't necessarily better then a guy with 90 RBIs. There are so many more ways to compare and evaluate players that there is no need to rely on a stat that is so team dependent.

It has nothing to do with a guys ability to hit with men on base we have measures for that. The point is as a counting stat it doesnt necessarily tell the whole story. I still use it and look at it, it shouldn't be ignored but if trying to decide player a .vs player b it's just not that effective.

It's not that high RBI guys are looked down upon it's just not a particularly effective measure of individual performance.

That makes sense and is sort of fair. I still think it's giving and or taking away credit due to a too stringent focus on statistics, but that's how I look at the game in general so something tells me we would never agree 100% on that fact. Still, you make a very good argument.

Unrelated, I like the small cache of baseball regulars here. One of the few places I can go without the extremes of either side. Refreshing.

[FirstTimer]

That makes sense and is sort of fair. I still think it's giving and or taking away credit due to a too stringent focus on statistics, but that's how I look at the game in general so something tells me we would ever agree 100% on that fact. Still, you make a very good argument.

Unrelated, I like the small cache of baseball regulars here. One of the few places I can go without the extremes of either side. Refreshing.

Your team sucks. Fuck you.

GO SAWX AND CUBZ

[SethMode]

Your team sucks. Fuck you.

GO SAWX AND CUBZ

"I swear to God, one of these days, I just kick this piece of shit out the window."

[Hasselbeck]

Totally agree with Ryan Howard. Dude has always been overrated as hell. I laugh at his comparisons to Pujols.

Throwing another name into the discussion.. how about B.J. Upton? Granted he's been the only Ray so far this season that can seemingly make contact with the ball.. but removing that he's done virtually nothing since his 2008 postseason. The last two years?

2010 - .237 average, 164K, 18 HR, 64 RBI
2009 - .241 average, 152K, 11 HR, 55 RBI

Terrible. Not to mention all the time the guy flat dogs it out there. He's a very frustrating player to watch at times.

[SethMode]

Totally agree with Ryan Howard. Dude has always been overrated as hell. I laugh at his comparisons to Pujols.

Throwing another name into the discussion.. how about B.J. Upton? Granted he's been the only Ray so far this season that can seemingly make contact with the ball.. but removing that he's done virtually nothing since his 2008 postseason. The last two years?

2010 - .237 average, 164K, 18 HR, 64 RBI
2009 - .241 average, 152K, 11 HR, 55 RBI

Terrible. Not to mention all the time the guy flat dogs it out there. He's a very frustrating player to watch at times.

Like the Upton pick. My homer senses have me disagreeing about Howard. For one, I don't think any sane fan compares him, or anyone for that matter, to Pujols. For two, I think he's almost to that point now where so many people consider him overrated that he almost becomes underrated. Regardless, I think he's in the top 5 of 1B in baseball, but part of that is arguably due to guy love. I'm certain I'll get some disagreement there.

[Chrispy]

The redsox starting pitching staff....

[NAHSTE]

HOLY SHIT! A MATTYG SIGHTING! I haven't seen MattyG post since Josh Beckett was good.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Expanding on Ichiro a bit. I was watching the Blue Jays debacle last night, and Ichiro showed why he is most defiinately not overrated.

In the 8th, he fisted a single to keep the big rally going, and scored. Then in the 9th, with the tying run on third, they pitched around him and eventually intentionally walked him. Keep in mind he was now the winning run, but they still opted to put him on rather than potentially let him drive in the game tying run. Why? Because you aren't going to strike him out. So in that spot, nobody cares about SLG or OPS+, they care about a big tikme player who always puts the ball in play tying the game. That's why he's a great player, he changes the game with his skillset.

The next batter doubled him in and they won the game.

Twice on base in the final two innings, two runs scored, scared the shit out of the oppposing manager. Some stuff doesn't show up in metrics.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I was mistaken. As much as Marmol sucks, he isnt even the most overrated player on his own team.

Carlos Pena is terrible. Just terrible.

AVG last four seasons: .247, .227, .196, .169

OBP last four seasons: .377, .356, .325, .306

Perfect example of OPS+ lying to you sometimes. This sack of shit sports a lifetime OPS+ of 122. He's had one truly great season in 2007 (1.037 OPS), and two other seasons (2008 & 2009) where he hit a lot of HR's but did little else. The rest of his baseball card is pretty non descript and mediocre at best.

Pena struggles to simply get a hit. In nearly 600 AB's last year, he managed 95 hits. How does a major league player keep his job and get a monster contract when he hits .196 over a full season? And dont confuse this clown with Adam Dunn. 87 walks hardly makes up for hitting .196...with 18 doubles. Walks are nice, but at some point you have to get a hit now & then.

And for a big time power hitter, he draws a shockingly low number of IBB's. And somehow, he once won a gold glove. This despite twice leading the league in errors. Probably because he led the league in fielding pct the year he won the award. Not hard to do when you are a statue.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I was mistaken. As much as Marmol sucks, he isnt even the most overrated player on his own team.

Carlos Pena is terrible. Just terrible.

AVG last four seasons: .247, .227, .196, .169

OBP last four seasons: .377, .356, .325, .306

Perfect example of OPS+ lying to you sometimes. This sack of shit sports a lifetime OPS+ of 122. He's had one truly great season in 2007 (1.037 OPS), and two other seasons (2008 & 2009) where he hit a lot of HR's but did little else. The rest of his baseball card is pretty non descript and mediocre at best.

Pena struggles to simply get a hit. In nearly 600 AB's last year, he managed 95 hits. How does a major league player keep his job and get a monster contract when he hits .196 over a full season? And dont confuse this clown with Adam Dunn. 87 walks hardly makes up for hitting .196...with 18 doubles. Walks are nice, but at some point you have to get a hit now & then.

And for a big time power hitter, he draws a shockingly low number of IBB's. And somehow, he once won a gold glove. This despite twice leading the league in errors. Probably because he led the league in fielding pct the year he won the award. Not hard to do when you are a statue.

[NAHSTE]

Do you want to keep the double post, or have me remove it? I enjoyed both.