MLB network's Top 9 Second Basemen Ever

[FirstTimer]

9. Bobby Grich

8. Ryne Sandberg

7. Roberto Alomar

6. Charlie Gehringer

5. Rod Carew

4. Nap Lajoie

3. Joe Morgan

2. Eddie Collins

1. Roger Hornsby

[killgod]

Robbie!

[Senser81]

Carew is too high. He spent a majority of his career at 1B, too. I would move Alomar and Sandberg above Carew, because they were both such great well-rounded players. I always though Sandberg was better than Alomar, but thats probably due to my bias.

I was actually going to mention something about Grich when someone else was bitching about Lou Whitaker's lack of HOF votes. IIRC, Grich lasted one year on the ballot because he got like 4% of the vote. Really? The greatest all-around 2B of the mid-70's to early 80's gets as many votes as Duane Kuiper?

Grich is one of the most underrated players in history, and he also shows how stupid the baseball HOF voting is.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I like Bobby Grich, very underrated player, but I think i'd rather have Jeff Kent.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Carew is too high. He spent a majority of his career at 1B, too. I would move Alomar and Sandberg above Carew, because they were both such great well-rounded players. I always though Sandberg was better than Alomar, but thats probably due to my bias.

I was actually going to mention something about Grich when someone else was bitching about Lou Whitaker's lack of HOF votes. IIRC, Grich lasted one year on the ballot because he got like 4% of the vote. Really? The greatest all-around 2B of the mid-70's to early 80's gets as many votes as Duane Kuiper?

Grich is one of the most underrated players in history, and he also shows how stupid the baseball HOF voting is.

Grich/Kent/Whitaker/Joe Gordon all pretty close. Joe Gordon is always forgotten in conversations like this.

[FirstTimer]

Surprised no mention of Craig Biggio yet as being left off.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Totally forgot about Biggio.

This is tough.

[FirstTimer]

Totally forgot about Biggio.

This is tough.

You're not high and indifferent like West are you?



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I'd have Carew lower . Sandberg higher. I'd also wedge Biggio in there.

I think the Top 4 are pretty good locks.

9. Biggio

8. Carew

7. Alomar

6. Sandberg

5. Gehringer

4. Nap Lajoie

3. Joe Morgan

2. Eddie Collins

1. Roger Hornsby

[Senser81]

Surprised no mention of Craig Biggio yet as being left off.

Biggio would definitely need to be on the list.

I'm surprised no mention yet of this guy:

[Senser81]

I like Bobby Grich, very underrated player, but I think i'd rather have Jeff Kent.

The people who'd rather have Jeff Kent don't know baseball.

[Warner2BruceTD]

The people who'd rather have Jeff Kent don't know baseball.

Kent had 600 more hits, 240 more doubles, 150 more HR's, nearly identical OPS+, similar baserunning numbers, both had 47 triples, Grich 67 WAR, Kent 59 WAR. Grich rates out better defensively, I'm not old enough to remember Grich's fielding, but do remember Kent being a butcher, although his numbers treat him better than that.

It's close.

EDIT-the offensive WAR is nearly identical, 60 for Kent, 59 for Grich. I think it's safe to assume Grich was a better defensive player, he won multiple GG's and his metrics shake out significantly better.

[NAHSTE]

I have never even heard of Bobby Grich. Damn, he was good.

[Senser81]

Kent had 600 more hits, 240 more doubles, 150 more HR's, nearly identical OPS+, similar baserunning numbers, both had 47 triples, Grich 67 WAR, Kent 59 WAR. Grich rates out better defensively, I'm not old enough to remember Grich's fielding, but do remember Kent being a butcher, although his numbers treat him better than that.

It's close.

I responded flippantly...I didn't really research anything. Grich was a great fielder who won 4 GGs until Frank White took over as the dominant fielding 2B. I always thought of Kent as being more of a 3B attempting to play 2B. I remember Grich being the best hitting/fielding combo of 2B when I started watching baseball. Then when he retired he became completely forgotten.

What about Nellie Fox?

[Warner2BruceTD]

I responded flippantly...I didn't really research anything. Grich was a great fielder who won 4 GGs until Frank White took over as the dominant fielding 2B. I always thought of Kent as being more of a 3B attempting to play 2B. I remember Grich being the best hitting/fielding combo of 2B when I started watching baseball. Then when he retired he became completely forgotten.

What about Nellie Fox?

Yeah, Fox would be another one.

"New" stats don't treat him well, but he led the league in hits during an era where you weren't looking for offense from his position, and his great fielding reputation is backed up by the sketchy metrics, fwiw.

I think I prefer the Grich/Kent/Gordon group of guys who brought more to the table offensively, though.

[FedEx227]

Nellie Fox despite being a White Sox legend isn't really great.

.288/.348/.363, 93 OPS+, 44 WAR. Even his 5-year peaks aren't that great.

The issue comes up with the fact that he wasn't really bad. He got a lot of hits, tons of hits, played great defense and basically did everything a 2B was suppose to do in the time he played.

However in the context of all-time 2B he doesn't really stand out at all.