Enough is enough. Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time.

[adembroski]

Depends on you definition of "blowing out of the water".

They have nearly identical completion percentages, and Montana's passer rating is 95 to Peyton's 85.

Montana has more rings, but Peyton's book isnt finished. He's still firmly entrenched in his prime.

Montana has better postseason numbers, but Manning has much better regular season numbers, plus his career is still going strong and he is adding to his overall legacy as we speak.

The best argument for Manning is that you can't imagine the Colts having a fraction of the success they have had without him. He has carried that team on his back on a level that can probably only be matched by 80's Elway. And unlike Elway, it's not because the Colts have lacked complimentary players, it's just that Manning is that damn good. The 49ers remained a powerhouse long after Montana left town.

Stats & facts aside, when I watch Peyton Manning play, there is no doubt in my mind he's a better player than Montana. And everyone else i've ever seen.

The 49ers were a powerhouse after Montana left town because they had a guy named Steve Young. If Tom Brady were Peyton Manning's backup, yes, I definitely could see the Colts having the same level of success.

Manning and Brady are not in Montana's league. Different world's, fuck different eras. There's no L.T. in the league today because L.T. would have been kicked out of the league. We've reached an era where not only are the defensive backs of the league less talented than they were in the '80s, they're also hamstrung by ridiculous rules and rule interpretations that make it damn near impossible to do their jobs.

I did see Montana play, and I still go back and watch his games whenever I have the chance. He made quarterbacking an art. Manning and Brady are amazing quarterbacks, don't get me wrong, but Montana might as well have played with 20 lb weights on each wrist and a ball and chain on his ankle the way the rules have changed to help those two.

[adembroski]

I don't think Marino or Favre belong in this converstion, and that's not really meant as an insult, I just don't think either of them are at the Manning/Montana level.

This I agree with you on. To me, there's 4 names in the conversation: Montana, Manning, Brady, and Unitas. Everyone else is fighting for 5th.

(Edit: I take part of that back... Staubach is 5th, the rest fight for 6th)

[MrBill]

I don't think Marino or Favre belong in this converstion, and that's not really meant as an insult, I just don't think either of them are at the Manning/Montana level.

This I agree with you on. To me, there's 4 names in the conversation: Montana, Manning, Brady, and Unitas. Everyone else is fighting for 5th.

(Edit: I take part of that back... Staubach is 5th, the rest fight for 6th)

You guys are right, breaking every record for QB play in fewer games than the guys you listed above who set them is a joke. Favre leading his team to the highest winning percentage in the league for the 17 years he was the starter for the Packers means jack squat.

I still think Joe Cool was the GOAT but to not even have Favre on the short list is redonkulous.

[Senser81]

Stop baiting me to get into a pissing contest with you about my intelligence, that is not what we're talking about here.

Its not a "pissing contest"...I am asking you a specific question about what you said. When you said ""It's preposterous to credit/discredit any player (especially a QB)...", what were you talking about? Why did you include "especially a QB"? That made zero sense.

You are a piece of work. Whenever anyone calls you out on the moronic bullshit you post, you refuse to address the topic and resort to trolling/namecalling. Notice how no one else is acknowledging your existence in this thread...they probably don't want to waste their time arguing with such a mental angry midget. Its amazing how everyone is trying to discuss the GOAT QB, and you are still stuck in the starting block with some absolutely retarded point that postseason games are meaningless.

Whats worse is that YOU ACTUALLY THINK YOU ARE INTELLIGENT. Newsflash...you aren't. Just accept it and move on.

However, as I outlined earlier, even arguing that when talking about Peyton Manning is a little suspect as he has only a small sample size of post-season games to go off of.

Right, because a sample size of 15 games is about an entire season, and whenever a player plays a season I'm still on the fence when it comes to judging their effectiveness. "Sure, Alex Smith threw 1 TD and 11 INTs last season, but the sample size was too small to make any judgment on his performance."

[Warner2BruceTD]

You guys are right, breaking every record for QB play in fewer games than the guys you listed above who set them is a joke. Favre leading his team to the highest winning percentage in the league for the 17 years he was the starter for the Packers means jack squat.

I still think Joe Cool was the GOAT but to not even have Favre on the short list is redonkulous.

This is why I dislike debating things like this, because you inevitably end up in a position of discrediting tremendous players.

I can talk up Manning all I want, but in order to justify telling people he's the best, I have to tear down Joe Fucking Montana & Brett Favre.

Brett Favre is better than 99.9% of the men who have played QB in the NFL, I just don't think he's better than Peyton Manning or Joe Montana. That sounds like an insult, or a backhanded compliment at best, but it's not.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

This I agree with you on. To me, there's 4 names in the conversation: Montana, Manning, Brady, and Unitas. Everyone else is fighting for 5th.

(Edit: I take part of that back... Staubach is 5th, the rest fight for 6th)

Your lack of Elway is...

disappointing.

[MrBill]

This is why I dislike debating things like this, because you inevitably end up in a position of discrediting tremendous players.

I can talk up Manning all I want, but in order to justify telling people he's the best, I have to tear down Joe Fucking Montana & Brett Favre.

Brett Favre is better than 99.9% of the men who have played QB in the NFL, I just don't think he's better than Peyton Manning or Joe Montana. That sounds like an insult, or a backhanded compliment at best, but it's not.

I hear where you are coming from. Montana is one of the guys that can easily be argued as the GOAT. Manning should be right there with him with another few years of production at his current level.

[Senser81]

You are absolutely ridiculous. I really have nothing else to say. This is not a validation of any of your points, it's just that your constant trolling and arbitrary statements and "loling" at my posts in an attempt to garner favor with the other posters is just way too much. You say "you're retarded" "moronic" and whatnot, yet instead of going through and showing how my logic about anything has been faulty or wrong, you latch on to one or two things and yell "SEE, I TOLD YOU HE WAS RETARDED!!".

I really don't know how anyone on this site deals with your sorry ass. I really don't

You have once again failed to address my questions about your "logic". I don't understand why you continue to post in this thread, because you are adding nothing to the discussion. Instead of trolling, how about responding to the content of my posting?

1) When you said ""It's preposterous to credit/discredit any player (especially a QB)...", what were you talking about? Why did you include "especially a QB"?

2) Why is 15 games considered "too small a sample size"?

For my part, I would much rather converse with you about football, but you give me nothing to go on. Look at any of your postings in this thread. Look at the post you just made....how am I supposed to respond? You have not one iota of "football discussion" in your post.

I would suggest that you take your ill-manners and "Look at me, I'm smart!" routine to the Locker Room, and leave the NFL/NCAA Discussion to the people who actually watch football and enjoy debating about it.

[shag773]

I'm guessing you guys are very young, because if you went throught the NFL era from 1981-1995 there would be no question that Joe Montana is the greatest quaterback of all time. Period, end of story, ship it. I have no issues with Manning personally. Truly a first ballot hall of famer, and one of the greats of this game. But he does have his place in the pecking order of all time quarterbacks, and it's 2 or 3 spots from the best. A 7-8 playoff record does not make you the GOAT, and the funny thing is Peyton would probably be the first one to tell you that.


P.S. How exactly can you tear down Joe Montana to make Peyton Manning look better?

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm guessing you guys are very young, because if you went throught the NFL era from 1981-1995 there would be no question that Joe Montana is the greatest quaterback of all time. Period, end of story, ship it. I have no issues with Manning personally. Truly a first ballot hall of famer, and one of the greats of this game. But he does have his place in the pecking order of all time quarterbacks, and it's 2 or 3 spots from the best. A 7-8 playoff record does not make you the GOAT, and the funny thing is Peyton would probably be the first one to tell you that.

Very young is a relative term.

At any rate, coming from someone who watched Joe Montana break the Rams hearts on a consistant basis, I obviously appreciate his greatness more than most. With that said, i'll take Peyton.

[shag773]

Depends on you definition of "blowing out of the water".

They have nearly identical completion percentages, and Montana's passer rating is 95 to Peyton's 85.

Montana has more rings, but Peyton's book isnt finished. He's still firmly entrenched in his prime.

Montana has better postseason numbers, but Manning has much better regular season numbers, plus his career is still going strong and he is adding to his overall legacy as we speak.

The best argument for Manning is that you can't imagine the Colts having a fraction of the success they have had without him. He has carried that team on his back on a level that can probably only be matched by 80's Elway. And unlike Elway, it's not because the Colts have lacked complimentary players, it's just that Manning is that damn good. The 49ers remained a powerhouse long after Montana left town.

Stats & facts aside, when I watch Peyton Manning play, there is no doubt in my mind he's a better player than Montana. And everyone else i've ever seen.

I apologize for trolling your thread, but some of these things are just plain incorrect.

1. What power house did Montana leave? They won 4 Super Bowls with him, won one without him. If they were such a powerhouse, why was Dallas winning 3 Super Bowls after Montana left? I don't hear any "Team of the 90's" arguments for the Niners.

2. Your argument is Manning has better regular season stats, and that cancels out Joe's post season stats. Brett Favre has better regular season stats than Manning. But Favre shouldn't be in the conversation? What are you saying here?


When Peyton has a winning record in the postseason and a couple of Super Bowls, than you at least have an argument. It could happen this year. Until then, it seems crazy to compare Manning and Montana.

[shag773]

[QUOTE=Warner2BruceTD;832549]Very young is a relative term.QUOTE]

I'll give you that one.

[Senser81]

I meant, "even" a QB....I had had a few drinks, what do you want from me?

LOL at "what do you want from me?".

I've asked you four times to provide clarification regarding your comment, and your only response is basically "I'm a retard, why are you badgering me?".

Thanks for the reply. In the future, whenever you type something completely illogical, I will assume you've been drinking.

It's not that it's "too small" per se, but the number of trials (15 games) does not lend itself to accurately representing the true value (in this case: Quarterback ability). And it's not that the meanings extrapolated from the data gained through the small sample size are necessarily wrong, it's just that there is a greater likelihood that they are misleading and don't represent the truth.

What is "the truth"? What would be representative of "the truth"? Again, you are acting as if the postseason doesn't exist. If you wanted an accurate representation of QB ability, then would it make sense to ignore postseason performance?

[Warner2BruceTD]

I apologize for trolling your thread, but some of these things are just plain incorrect.

You're not trolling.

1. What power house did Montana leave? They won 4 Super Bowls with him, won one without him. If they were such a powerhouse, why was Dallas winning 3 Super Bowls after Montana left? I don't hear any "Team of the 90's" arguments for the Niners.

2. Your argument is Manning has better regular season stats, and that cancels out Joe's post season stats. Brett Favre has better regular season stats than Manning. But Favre shouldn't be in the conversation? What are you saying here?


When Peyton has a winning record in the postseason and a couple of Super Bowls, than you at least have an argument. It could happen this year. Until then, it seems crazy to compare Manning and Montana.

1. The 49ers stayed at the top of the league and were a SB contender year after year after Montana left. As you pointed out, they even ended up winning one.

2. I don't think Manning's regular season numbers "cancel out" anything, but I think it's worth noting that his number, are in fact, superior to Montana's. If the crux of the Montana vs. Peyton argument is Montana being superior in the postseason, I think it's silly to discount the regular season as if it counts for nothing.

As far as Favre (and Marino, too), he has the better cumulative type numbers (yards, TD's, etc) but he lags behind guys like Peyton and Montana in the percentage/average categories...QB rating, Completion %, Yards P/A, Yards P/C, etc.

And don't forget, Peyton's book is still being written. He's still in his prime.

I have no issue with anyone ranking Montana ahead of Manning, I just prefer Manning.

[JeremyHight]

2. I don't think Manning's regular season numbers "cancel out" anything, but I think it's worth noting that his number, are in fact, superior to Montana's. If the crux of the Montana vs. Peyton argument is Montana being superior in the postseason, I think it's silly to discount the regular season as if it counts for nothing.

His numbers aren't that far superior to Montana's. Including playoffs, Manning has a 1% higher completion percentage and a 2.1 advantage on passer rating, while the rest of the stats are nearly identical, including Completion% (63% to 64%), Y/A (.6 to 7.7), AY/A (7.4 to 7.5), TD% (both 5%), and Interception% (both 3%).

I've already gone into Montana's post-season stats, which Manning cannot touch, but just look at the winning percentage of the two in comparison.

Player......Regular Season......Playoff.....Total
Montana...71%....................70%........71%
Manning....66%....................47%........65%

Yes, it is a team game, but a losing record in the playoffs and nearly identical stats despite playing in a FAR more passer friendly era, there is just no chance that Manning could be taken ahead of Montana.

Give Montana's today's pass happy rules and I wouldn't be surprised to see him put up numbers beyond that which Manning put up, especially considering how close there stats truly were.