Enough is enough. Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time.

[ram29jackson]

Hed won 2 superbowls before those mediocre stretches.
Those 85-86 Giants were also some of the best defenses of that era.
I dont hold it against someone to struggle against LT and company.

Some of the teams the Colts lost to were nowhere near that class.

But yes , he wasnt invincible.



So are you insinuating these QBs fell apart in the playoffs because the Oline and game plans were suddenly bad ? Not the QB play ?

Thats what seperates Elway from Marino. Marino lost games he should have won...Elway won games he should have lost.
Elway playoff losses came in the SB against clearly superior teams.
Marino , Manning lost games they were favored in or at least had equal talent in.

Again...4 SB wins for the niners..the only constant in them was Joe Montana. Thats not a coincidence.

Superbowl wins are still total team efforts. and Montana had a goldmine of talent around him. This is about great individual talents at the QB position. Not post season victories. And yes, I can seperate the catagories. Not making the playoffs or not winning them doesnt mean you sucked as a QB.

Warren Moon didnt suck and his playoff history wasnt good.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Superbowl wins are still total team efforts. and Montana had a goldmine of talent around him. This is about great individual talents at the QB position. Not post season victories. And yes, I can seperate the catagories. Not making the playoffs or not winning them doesnt mean you sucked as a QB.

Warren Moon didnt suck and his playoff history wasnt good.

No one is saying these guys "suck"...we are all talking about some of the best to play the game...but these guys, are...well...peers, and you need to further dissect them if you want to compare and contrast.

Warren Moon was great...but he wasn't better than Montana, Elway, Brady, Favre, etc.

[Tailback U]

Have you guys already discussed the different types of offenses that these guys, specifically Manning and Montana, play and played in?

I think you have to take statistics with a grain of salt because the difference in eras, offenses, and personnel.

Answer this question, as it may be the only question that really matters, if you had to choose 1 guy to get the ball into the end zone with under 2 minutes left in the game, who would you pick?

I'd pick Montana every single time.

[DJ Fog]

Manning is so great I tried trading the entire Jets offense in a Online Franchise for him.

I still would if the league allowed me to.




But in all seriousness, as a 23 year old, I can't say I grew up watching all of the great QB's that have played. Since I have been into football however, Manning has been unparalleled. Maybe at some point in my life I will see someone who I believe will surpass him, but at the current time, I don't see anyone.

[Senser81]

No one is saying these guys "suck"...we are all talking about some of the best to play the game...but these guys, are...well...peers, and you need to further dissect them if you want to compare and contrast.

Warren Moon was great...but he wasn't better than Montana, Elway, Brady, Favre, etc.

Yes, I don't understand why this very simple concept is eluding so many people. Oh well. I guess even though I ripped on the MM posters, they were much smarter than these folks at VSN.

[FirstTimer]

Outside of Warner, KOF, Larry, Senser, Mr Bill, JHight, and Jeffx...and this post....this thread is so full of fail it's not even funny.

Keep it going old MMer's.

Jesus Christ. Do VSN kids even have TV's to watch football?

I don't know what's worse: Lefty trying to use big words in some desperate attempt to make himself seem/feel smart or steeljakes awful weekly recaps.

[KoRnStARr]

First of all, this is not a rip Tom Brady thread, nor is it a Peyton vs. Brady thread, even though it will definately turn into one. Tom Brady is a fine football player, that is not up for debate. But he isnt Peyton Manning, and quite frankly, nobody is.

I'm not going to post a bunch of stats, either. But i'm sure someone else will. Mannings numbers obviously stack up with anyone, and when he retires, he may end up the leader in all of the significant categories.

Just watch him play....

Peyton Manning has a command over the game that nobody else has ever had. Not Montana, not Elway, not Marino, not Brady. He controls the pace of the game from behind center, in a way nobody else can or ever has. I've watched Colts games where Manning intentionally stalled drives, because he knew his defense was suspect. He's good enough to know that he will score, so he can dictate when he scores. It's an amazing thing to watch.

As far as mechanics go, he's the best. Pinpoint accuracy, great footwork, and he can make any throw.

He's one of the smartest players to ever take the field. He calls his own plays, seemingly always calls the right audible, and he never burns TO's or makes mental errors.

He never gets hurt, either. Not even banged up.

He's reached the Michael Jordan level, where you could resonably give him the MVP every single year. Some of his teams have been very suspect over the years. The Colts seemingly are never able to stop the run, and have years where they can't run the ball at all. They had a K for years who always missed the big kick. It's not hard to imagine the Colts being a 5 or 6 win team certain years, had they not had Manning.

There are good QB's, and there are great QB's, and then you have Peyton Manning. He's one of the 10 best football players ever, appreciate the fact you get to watch him.

He's the best regular season QB to ever live.

...

Key word: REGULAR SEASON.

He's not the best of all time, he's not the best in the league, Brady is.

[ram29jackson]

Outside of Warner, KOF, Larry, Senser, Mr Bill, JHight, and Jeffx...and this post....this thread is so full of fail it's not even funny.

Keep it going old MMer's.

Jesus Christ. Do VSN kids even have TV's to watch football?

I don't know what's worse: Lefty trying to use big words in some desperate attempt to make himself seem/feel smart or steeljakes awful weekly recaps.

what site was MM ?

[longhornfan]

what site was MM ?

Come on JE, don't act like you don't know.

[Gonzo]

He's the best regular season QB to ever live.

...

Key word: REGULAR SEASON.

He's not the best of all time, he's not the best in the league, Brady is.

The Colts would not make the playoffs without Peyton Manning; I think that's something we can mostly agree on.

The Pats have already proved they can be a successful team without Brady.

[citizenerased]

Come on JE, don't act like you don't know.

Rams29Jackson isn't J.E/Nuk

[KoRnStARr]

The Colts would not make the playoffs without Peyton Manning; I think that's something we can mostly agree on.

The Pats have already proved they can be a successful team without Brady.

Agreed.

But the Pats DID miss the playoffs last year, despite a good record.

[JMeist]

every word this guy posted I believe. Peyton Manning is the man and is hands down the greatest quarterback of all time. If there was one player I would wanted QBing my team it'd be Peyton.

[Gonzo]

Agreed.

But the Pats DID miss the playoffs last year, despite a good record.

I did want to mention that; I'm not discrediting Brady here, and to be honest, this thread is nothing new to me. I've known for a long time that Peyton was going to be one of the best in history.

11-5, 99% of the time is going to get you the playoffs, so that's not on Cassell and the Patriots really [sure, they could have won some games, but for all intensive purposes, they were in a position to warrant a playoff spot].

The mere fact that Peyton has led a [significantly] weaker team [defensive for the most part] to 12 wins for x amount of years in a row is enough to bump him over Brady. I know Tom's a great QB, and I know the Patriots would not be the same without him...But honestly, they'd be close. The Colts success in the playoffs lies mostly on Peyton, whereas the Patriots had the talent to be there in most of the years, with Brady or without him.

[Deviant]

Doesn't Peyton have the record for largest deficit overcome in a conference championship game? Throwing a perfect passer rating doesn't count either? Is that not coming up huge in big games?

Also, I've looked at some of Peyton's loses in the playoffs and in four of them, he has put his team in a situation to win and there were faults by teammates that stopped him. For instance, in his playoff game against Miami in 2001(?), the Colts gave up a playoff-record 209 yards to Lamar Smith on the ground. A last second TD by the Dolphins tied the game (after Peyton had pushed the lead to a touchdown on the previous drive). After the defense halted the Dolphins in OT, Peyton set up Vanderjagt with a game-winning FG from 48 after they just missed a 3rd and 12 conversion by a yard. Vanderjagt shanks it (despite nailing a 52 yarded earlier) and the Dolphins win the game.

Two fumbles by Dominic Rhodes and Reggie Wayne while in Patriots territory for potential scores killed their chances to win in a 20-3 game. Is that fair to hang against Manning considering he didn't commit a turnover until the last seconds of the game in desperation?

Peyton came back from 21-3 to 21-18 in the Fourth against the Steelers and after a present from his defense, drove the team down the field and set up a field goal situation for Vanderjagt. Vanderjagt shanks again.

I think Peyton deserves a lot more credit in his games than just the W & L column.