Enough is enough. Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time.

[Aso]

This doesn't make sense when comparing Elway and Montana etc. It's not like Elway hung around to just compile stats and passed Montana or other guys. Elways last four years were arguably the best of his career. The opposite could be(sort of) true of Montana who had two marginal to above average seasons at the end in Kansas City.

It's not like Elway put up great stats earlier in his career. Montana's QB rating in '93 is better than what Elway's was from '83 to '92. Montana has a better QB rating in '93 than Elway has in all but 4 of his seasons (3 of them are his last three years in the league). So an above average season for Montana is about 8 points better than Elways career. I can't think of any logical argument to dispute an average per year over their career. It's definitely the best way to compare, not career numbers.

The stat compiling argument doesn't really hold any weight in regards to a lot of these guys simply because you had very few guys ranked in the top 5-10 stats wise that hung around and put up empty stats for any real number of seasons.

Why do players need to have empty seasons to be able to be compared that way? Empty seasons has nothing to do with it. Averaging things out is easily better than a simple career average. If a player was above average for 15 years while another player was great for 10 their numbers will probably be similar.

Favre would still end up at or near the top because he was so productiove for so long. You're talking about a guy in 20 seasons that has really only had four or five average to sub par years and many more above average to great seasons statistically speaking. It would more than balance out in the end and still skew towards Favre having season average numbers that would be at or near the very top all time.

94-97 was the prime of Favre's career. After that he wasn't nearly as good. He had a hole in his career from 98-00 where he was average had a couple good years in 01 and 02 and from there on out it was every other year it was a good year then a horrible one.

[FirstTimer]

It's not like Elway put up great stats earlier in his career.

Do yourself a favor and go look at those Bronco's teams from early in his career. I also find it hilarious you bring up him not putting up great stats early in his career despite the fact that Elways carried those Bronco's teams to three Super Bowls in four seasons in the late 80's.

Talk about not seeing the forest from the trees.

Montana's QB rating in '93 is better than what Elway's was from '83 to '92. Montana has a better QB rating in '93 than Elway has in all but 4 of his seasons (3 of them are his last three years in the league). So an above average season for Montana is about 8 points better than Elways career. I can't think of any logical argument to dispute an average per year over their career. It's definitely the best way to compare, not career numbers.

Because it's a myopic way to look at it? It completely disregards the quality or lack of the QB was playing on and disregards the fact that while Elway played for longer not only was he capable of it but he also put up numbers the entire time as a front line QB in the NFL. This isn't Vinny Testaverde getting into the Top 15 in a lot of catagories by hanging around for 20+ seasons. This is John Elway, who was widely considered one of the Top QB's in the NFL his entire career putting up numbers season after season. Yeah sure average seasons can be looked at but it shouldn't be the end all be all.

Why do players need to have empty seasons to be able to be compared that way?

:obama:

Wow.

Talk about missing the fucking point.

Go back. Read again. Try again.

94-97 was the prime of Favre's career. After that he wasn't nearly as good. He had a hole in his career from 98-00 where he was average had a couple good years in 01 and 02 and from there on out it was every other year it was a good year then a horrible one.

Ok?
And that goes against what I said how?

'03 and '04 were good years for Favre. The last 5 have been inconsistant.

Favre's average to sub par seasons: '93, '99, '00, '05, '06, '08 '10

That's 7 out of 20. Trying to paint Favre as a guy who has hung around and simply compiled numbers for the hell of it really doesn't make much sense. He had his team in the Conf Champ game last season. It's not like he has proven he can't play.

[ram29jackson]

Favre- Manning-Elway- and Montana

are all on the top of the hill as the rest look up- enough said

[JOHNNYTHECLOWN]

Favre- Manning-Elway- and Montana

are all on the top of the hill as the rest look up- enough said

While Tom Brady is sitting the clouds looking down at them all.

[ram29jackson]

While Tom Brady is sitting the clouds looking down at them all.

he is behind all these guys. He is a trend

[bucky]

Favre- Manning-Elway- and Montana

are all on the top of the hill as the rest look up- enough said

Wrong,

[shag773]

Just for the record, Montana didn't go to KC to compile stats. He pulled a Favre and went there to try and prove the Niners made a mistake moving forward with Young over him.

[ram29jackson]

Wrong,

where ? they are the statistical leaders and icons that will never be forgotten. The rest are add ons

[shag773]

Young won a Super Bowl and retired as the highest rated QB of all-time.

Montana was a shell of himself in KC. Aside from getting crushed in the AFCC Game in 1993, and that shootout against Elway in 1994, there was nothing memorable about Montana while he was with the Chiefs. Just another legend playing out the string.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he was a shell of himself, but he certainly didn't do anything in KC that made the Niners second guess going with Young.

Even an over the hill Montana with an elbow swelled up to the size of a beach ball took KC farther than Krieg did, which in my eyes was a win for that organization.

[bucky]

where ? they are the statistical leaders and icons that will never be forgotten. The rest are add ons

It's not just about regular season career statistics.

Favre isn't in the top 5 all time. Too many playoff blunders. Not too many playoff losses cause a QB doesn't lose on his own. But too many playoff blunders.

Brett's a first Ballot HOF'er. Top 10 all time. Great QB (Regular Season). But when you look at the QB playoff performance (not just wins/losses, but performance), Starr > Favre.

Starr had the playoff wins plus he always performed great in the playoffs.

Brett is the second best QB in GB history.

[bucky]

Montana was a shell of himself in KC. there was nothing memorable about Montana while he was with the Chiefs. Just another legend playing out the string.

That's not true Aaron. He wasn't the same old Montana, but he was still a very good QB with some magic left. He took a KC team to the playoffs. Not an easy feat. You're really not being fair to Montana.

[bucky]

"Give into your anger.... only your hatred can destroy Brett....."

Whose angry? Just saying it like it is.

[bucky]

Give it up bro.

Bart HIMSELF doesn't even believe this, and has said as much.

He's a very humble man. He would never say something like it. You ever meet him?

There is nothing to give up. Bart > Brett.

[shag773]

Completely false.

The Chiefs made the playoffs every year from 1990-1994, and had only one losing season under Schottenheimer... which happened to be his last.. at 7-9 no less.

7 playoff appearances in 10 years under Marty. Home field advantage twice, AFTER Montana retired.

How many playoff wins did they have AFTER Montana retired under Marty?

[MrBill]

I met Bart Starr at Lambeau Field back in '96 before the Bears game and thought he was an exceedingly humble and nice man that was almost embarrassed the way people were fussing over him.

That said, he is still not going to be remembered by football historians as better than Brett Favre at his position. He was a great player on some of the greatest teams of all-time if you look at how many are in the HoF today. The only HoF in Green Bay during Favre's entire career was Reggie White and he was gone before the half-way mark of Brett's career.