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Brady is a system quarterback.
Manning IS the system.Comment
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WHAT WE KNOW:
Brady has 3 rings, NFL record most TD passes in a single season, multiple SB MVPs, NFL MVP, numerous 4th quarter come backs and clutch plays. We also know that, when given weapons, he can put up similar or BETTER numbers then Manning DESPITE playing some bad-weather games, and not in a dome. We also KNOW that Manning has the better CAREER #'s because of a bad D for most of his career that gave up ton of points, talent surrounded him his WHOLE CAREER, and played in a dome.
With all these things known, how prolific of a passer Brady is with weapons, when you add up his rings, his playoff performances, his records -- there's no real true argument on why anyone can say, Manning > Brady. He's not as good of a playoff QB, only thing he has is better career numbers, which CAN BE EXPLAINED..Comment
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Then why do we give accolades for regular season wins, or for good numbers? No QB alone has complete control over that.
Face it, WINS for HOF QBs in the post-season is what seperates one from another, and adds up to their legacy. I know as a Manning/Colts fan that's hard for you to swallow.Comment
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Who gives accolades to QBs for regular season wins? And a QB has a much greater influence on his own stats than he does on the overall outcome of the game. It isn't even close.
According to who? Bradhsaws wins in the postseason do not separate him from Marino.Last edited by Bear Pand; 10-26-2009, 04:01 PM.Comment
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He is better because the D is bad? How so? It gives him more chances is one way of viewing it . Teams didn't get into alot of shootouts with Indy ..... they would bleed us for 6-7 YPC and milk the shit outta the clock then Manning would come out in score in a few minutes resulting to more attempted clock milking .
And the weapons talk can be seen many different ways ..... is Manning better becuase of it? maybe ... or is he making the talent better than it is? (outside of Wayne , Clark) . He is playing better right now than ever argubly and he is doing it with guys named Collie and Garcon .... hardly studs . He turned multiple guys into top stats performers and as soon as they left Indy they turned to shit (Marcus Pollard is a good example) .
I will give you the dome ... that does helpComment
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You guys can argue about Manning vs Brady, but neither are in the argument for greatest QB of all time.Comment
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From the Indianapolis Star Sunday Morning after Colts playoff loss to Chargers.
COLTS ARE UNDERACHIEVERS
SAN DIEGO -- Another 12-victory season . . . and nothing.
Another Peyton Manning MVP season . . . and nothing.
Another Tony Dungy playoff appearance, his record 10th straight . . . and nothing.
Another glorious chance to advance to a Super Bowl, their second in three years, with the New England Patriots out of the way and the AFC unfettered by the existence of a dominant team . . . and nothing.
Let's just say it how it is: The Colts are the ultimate paper tigers. And if you don't like the Atlanta Braves comparison -- multiple postseason appearances, one championship -- feel free to come up with your own. But how can a franchise be so routinely dominant year after year, and yet be found so routinely lacking when the brightest lights are shining?
Saturday night's 23-17 overtime loss to the short-handed San Diego Chargers was all too typical of the Colts' recent postseason history.
It happens year after year after frustrating and infuriating year. And it's always something. The weather in New England. The officiating in New England. The long layoff before Pittsburgh. The Dwight Freeney injury against San Diego.
It's always something.
And yet teams like last year's Giants march on despite losing Jeremy Shockey, or the Chargers win this game without their top running back.
If it happens once, it's an anomaly. But this happens time and time again. It's a trend, and it's something Jim Irsay and Bill Polian have got to address. The nagging problem this year was that running game, the one Polian kept insisting was just fine, despite ample statistical evidence to the contrary.
It wasn't fine.
It was never fine.
And now the Colts are going on vacation way before a team with this talent, this pedigree, ought to be hitting the links.
These were not just the 8-8 San Diego Chargers. These were the 8-8 Chargers without a reasonable facsimile of LaDainian Tomlinson, who didn't even play in the second half because of a serious groin injury. These were the 8-8 Chargers with Antonio Gates struggling with a high ankle sprain. And yet, there was Gates, maybe the toughest guy on the field, riding Antoine Bethea downfield for a monster first down on San Diego's game-winning drive in overtime.
Last year, the Chargers beat the Colts with backup quarterback Billy Volek, or as we came to call him, Billy Freaking Volek. This year, the Chargers beat the Colts with Mike Scifres, a punter, and a magical elf named Darren Sproles, who merely filled in for Tomlinson and produced 328 all-purpose yards.
And, oh yes, there was the San Diego defense, which held the Colts' underperforming offense in check, as is often the case in the playoffs. For all of Manning's greatness, for all the weapons the Colts have on that side of the football, the fact is, Manning is sub-.500 in the playoffs, along with his head coach. The running game was a cipher. Marvin Harrison was invisible, as he usually is during the playoffs. Still think Harrison is coming back next season?
Predictably, the Colts defense will get pounded this morning and for the rest of the week, and those three defensive penalties on the game-winning drive don't speak well of their discipline down the stretch, but they did force two San Diego turnovers in the end zone on potential game-tying or go-ahead drives.
They played well enough to win.
Bottom line is, when the Colts needed a third-and-short conversion, they couldn't get it. You can't win in the playoffs if you can't run the football.
It's pretty elemental stuff. The Colts couldn't run it. Couldn't run it all season, couldn't run it all night, couldn't run it when one conversion on third-and-2 with 2:30 left in regulation and San Diego out of timeouts could have put this game away.
One and done.
Or, should we say, one and Dungy.
If (when) Tony Dungy decides to retire sometime next week, will there be a great hue and cry for him to come back and give it another shot? As much as this town loves and reveres him and appreciates him for everything he's done on and off the field, isn't it time for a new face, a new voice, something different?
At this point, it's going to be tough selling fans on Jim Caldwell who, at least from a distance, promises to bring more of the same.
Overtime?
Of course it went overtime.
Because they're the Colts and the Chargers. Because they don't know how to play football games that don't end on the final drive, the final play, the final gasp. Because they've developed as good of a rivalry as you will ever see between two teams who aren't in the same division.
It took more than 60 minutes to decide, but the deserving team won.
There's no nice way of saying what has to be said:
Paper tigers.
Folding again.
-- Bob KravitzComment
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THE DAY BEFORE CHARGERS/COLTS:
Article a day before the game on Colts, Manning...and legacies...lmao..Indianapolis Star Bob Kravitz
What's on the line? Legacies for Colts, Manning, Dungy
Jan 2nd, 2009
We were talking on the radio, and I got to wondering:
What if the Colts somehow lose on Saturday? How will history treat them? How will we treat them?
After six straight seasons of 12 victories or more, but just one Super Bowl appearance/victory, what will their legacy be?
Now, before the multitudes attack, let me quickly add that I believe the Colts will win Saturday's game in San Diego. The Chargers are hot, but the Colts are hotter. The Chargers are playing better than earlier this season, but they're 0-5 against playoff teams. They dropped 52 on Denver, but as Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler said, "We can't stop anybody.'' San Diego is dangerous, especially if the Colts let Darren Sproles hurt them on special teams, but the bottom line is, they're wretched against the pass, meaning Peyton Manning should have a monster day.
(Oh, and a quick aside: I've been informed that in the first known example of bulletin-board material being provided by a vanquished team, the Chargers are using Cutler's San Diego loss observation as their rallying cry for this week. So we can't blame this one on Mike Vanderjagt. At least not without trying real hard.)
OK, then.
But let's play "what if . . .''
What if they lose?
What will be the ugly fallout?
I've written this before and I said it on the radio the other day and I'll write it again: They will cast themselves as the Atlanta Braves of the NFL. One great regular season after another, one postseason appearance after another, and just one championship to show for it.
Look at history. The only teams that have done what the Colts have done, stringing together all these double-digit-victory seasons, are the dynastic San Francisco 49ers and Dallas Cowboys. Those teams won multiple Super Bowls. The Colts need to win multiple Super Bowls to fully validate and bring into focus the scope of this run of excellence.
And there's no excuse this time. No New England lying in wait. No dominant AFC team preparing to pounce on the unsuspecting Colts. No major Colts injuries, except for Gary Brackett's fractured fibula. No extended rest periods, providing the excuse that maybe they got rusty during the time off.
They will have to travel the hard road -- probably three road games unless Baltimore springs some surprises -- but this team has shown it can win on the road. Heaven knows, it hasn't handled home-field prosperity in the past.
In my addled mind, anything short of an appearance in the AFC Championship Game is a disappointing season. Ordinarily, I would say anything short of a Super Bowl would be a disappointment, but given how and where they started, how far they've come back and how hard it's going to be to reach the conference final, I'm willing to lower the bar just a bit.
But they've got to beat San Diego, at the very least.
And if they don't?
What will history say about Manning, at least at this point in his career? He will leave the game someday owning every statistical record, and for all we know, he might win a couple of more Super Bowls, but at this point, a loss would make him 7-8 in the postseason with some very ordinary numbers. That's not the record of a legendary quarterback. Call me crazy, but even at this point in his career, I'm not completely sure I trust Manning in the playoffs. Some games he's extraordinary; others he's very average.
What will history say about Tony Dungy? First, a loss would probably be his last game as the Colts coach. But his postseason record would move to 9-10. Clearly, Dungy is one of the all-time great coaches and his regular-season record with two franchises is beyond compare. Nobody, not a quarterback nor a coach, should be judged solely by his postseason accomplishments.
But how do you ignore 9-10 in the postseason? How do you ignore the one-and-dones in Tampa, the one-and-dones here against the Jets, Pittsburgh, San Diego and, perhaps again, San Diego?
The Colts now are playing for more than a chance to reach the Super Bowl; they're playing for their place in history. There may be more 12-win seasons, more postseason chances, but these kinds of runs don't last forever. So the question is what they do with this opportunity, as good an opportunity as they've ever had.
If they can run the football, even a little bit, even as a mere threat to keep the linebackers and safeties honest, they can go to Tampa. The record doesn't lie: Playoff teams that don't run don't go deep into the postseason. But, then, the record said teams with lousy run defenses don't win Super Bowls, so in 2006, the Colts' porous run defenders turned into the Monsters of the Midway.
San Diego beckons. And history awaits
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Thought this was a good read...Comment
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And before you shoot the author, which would be dumb anyway, focus on the message and what's said -- he's right.Comment
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