Originally posted by RodgersThat
NFL's Top 100 Discussion
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Better yet, post a Josh Freeman highlight video from before 2010, when Williams hit the roster.
Thanks.Comment
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Check his numbers pre-Williams.
Check his numbers after.
Do the same with Blount.
Or re-read the thread, we did it for you. Those two players changed the team far more than Freeman did.
You posted a video that backed it up!Comment
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Now that I've had some time to cool down and step away from this clusterfuck of a thread, I'd like to present some stats that I find interesting. These are facts, gentlemen, so it would be nice if they could be taken at face value, and not as an attempt to troll, or slob on Freeman, or whatever. I think sometimes since some of us have posted on the same sites for so long that people tend to argue the poster or the screen name instead of the actual information presented, so it would be nice if you guys actually read this shit and think about it before letting dumbassery ensue again.
So anyway, here is my futile attempt to actually make a decent football post.
To put in perspective how truly outstanding Freeman's season was last year, I looked up the TD/INT ratios of other 1st round QB's to see how Freeman stacked up. Like Freeman, I looked at each QB's 2nd year in the league, if they started. For guys who didn't start in their second year like Rodgers, I looked at their first year starting. I'm simply going to list the numbers as +2, for example, if a QB had 20 TD's and 18 INT's. Here we go...
Carson Palmer - even
Alex Smith - even
Mark Sanchez - +4
Kerry Collins - +5
Jay Cutler - +6
Eli Manning - +7
Matt Ryan - +8
Mike Vick - +8
Donovan McNabb - +8
Ben Roethlisberger - +8
Joe Flacco - +9
Peyton Manning - +11
Phillip Rivers - +13
Rodgers - +15
Josh Freeman - +19
Tell me that doesn't mindfuck the shit out of you.
Keep in mind, I'm not saying that Freeman is better than any of those guys, I'm just saying his season was really impressive...certainly more impressive than the guys arguing with me thought.
Now, I know what's coming next..."it's just one year...let's see him do it for more than that before we start kissing his ass". I agree. But, I think Freeman's high level of play that he displayed last year will most likely continue based on the way other young QB's have grown. How many guys on that list, especially the guys with better numbers, regressed as they got more experience? A breakout year is usually a sign of things to come.
I know Warner was hung up on draft position and whatnot, so why did I include only first rounders? I did that because QB's chosen in the 1st round are expected to be franchise QB's that you can win Superbowls with. In this league, IMO, you need a franchise QB to be successful. The recent Superbowl winners would agree with that as well since 5 out of the last 6 champions were quarterbacked by first rounders, and the QB left out, Drew Brees, was a high 2nd round choice.
BTW, I know some dumbass is going to be like "look at Tom Brady...". Major exception. How many success stories like Tom Brady are there? Exactly. There are a lot of first round examples you can point to.
So yeah, Freeman had an exceptional year, not "one decent season" like Warner tried to say. He will probably only get better, which is why I don't have a major problem with him cracking the list a year early. If history is any indication, he will probably deserve to make future lists.Comment
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I don't think anyone ever disputed he had a good statistical season.
He still isn't the 86th best player in the league.
And its not me hung up on draft positions. I'm the one who doesn't care. You kept refering to players draft positions and college status for some odd reason. Its irrelevent.Comment
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This is where you are missing the basic point I have been trying to make, and also the basic point of everyone else "anti" Freeman.
Nobody has diputed he had a good season. In fact, I don't think anyone has said that he can't play, or that he's a bad player.
ALL WE ARE SAYING IS THAT HE ISN'T A TOP 100 PLAYER
Of course I have tried to 'discredit' him. If I'm trying to show a player is overrated, am I supposed to point out the positives? Are you on a Polish debate team, or something?
I've pointed out what I've seen from him, which is a guy who sucked two years ago, and had a good year last year, helped greatly IMO by several spectacular plays by Williams and some others. Based on this, I'm not ready to crown him. I also feel he will never repeat those numbers, as he will revert back to the norm (in terms of hiis lack of turnovers, 50/50 balls going the other way, etc.) I feel a lot went his way.
I also dispute the claim by BB and others that he was the primary reason the Bucs improved so dratically. I think it had more to do with the emergance of Williams & Blount. Numbers of both Freeman and the offense back that up.
That's the cliffs of my stance throughout this mess.Comment
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NO FUCKING SHIT. The issue here (btw, I love how I keep having to explain this to you when you have this superior attitude and don't even know wtf is going on) is how close we think he is to the top 100.
I've pointed out what I've seen from him, which is a guy who sucked two years ago, and had a good year last year, helped greatly IMO by several spectacular plays by Williams and some others. Based on this, I'm not ready to crown him. I also feel he will never repeat those numbers, as he will revert back to the norm (in terms of hiis lack of turnovers, 50/50 balls going the other way, etc.) I feel a lot went his way.
And, LOL at him never repeating his numbers. Are Williams and Blount no longer going to play? I don't know how you can make such a big case for them having a significant impact, and then say Freeman is going to revert back to his rookie self...aren't your boys going to continue to lift Freeman's play up? PLUS, Primetime said Freeman's QB rating was 85 before Blount. So, Freeman worked hard and made himself better and got his QB rating from 59.8 his rookie year to 85 before Blount. That's a jump of about 25 points WITHOUT BLOUNT. Blount's impact made Freeman's rating jump 17 points...but yeah, you're right, Blount had more of an impact.
And as I pointed out in my post about 1st round QB's, they don't regress or revert back to the struggling play of their rookie seasons after they have a breakout year. They get better with experience. What makes Freeman different?Comment
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I didn't say he would revert back to his rookie numbers. I said he would revert back to the norm. He had unusual statistical oddities in his numbers that are highly unsustainable. If he sustains some of these numbers, he'll be the greatest fucking QB of all time.
I believe what we saw was a career year. You act as if every career line moves upward. Sometimes players peak statistically in an early season. I think that's what we have here, unless of course, you honestly think he will get better, improve on those numbers, and be the greatest QB of all time.
Based on what I've seen, I disagree. His numbers will drop. He will never match them.Comment
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I'm not saying he's going to continue having years like this past year. Hell, even a 90 QB rating would be a drop. An 85 rating after that would be a drop. So yeah, he could take some dips, but that would still have him playing at a pretty high level.
And also, improved play doesn't always mean improved numbers. He could start to win more, get to the playoffs, etc.Comment
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