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I take back a little of what I wrote last night after reading about Incognito's texts. That shit was way over the top and while it's easy to say Martin could have avoided this by fighting Incognito, I don't think it would have been that easy. Incognito sounds like a sociopath. I read today where Incognito went after Martin, but not Mike Pouncey. Pouncey was good friends with Aaron Hernandez ... Incognito knew better than to mess with a guy who had guns.My Twitch video link: http://www.twitch.tv/dave374000
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i think you're underestimating the reputation of the shield that Gooddell is already trying to fix.
what if Martin were successful in killing himself? think about how badly the NFL would have looked right about now. it would be all over everything and 10 x bigger than it is. signing a guy like incognito would bring a ton of bad press to a team. and he doesn't sound like a great locker room guy, anyway.
he isn't a game changer. i'd might think different if he played a skill position but he's a guard and not even top 10 at the position.
solid lineman but he's replaceable by someone who isn't such a headache.
could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me if nobody wants him.Comment
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My Twitch video link: http://www.twitch.tv/dave374000
Twitch archived games link: http://www.twitch.tv/dave374000/profile/past_broadcastsComment
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no matter what you think of this whole situation i think there's one thing for certain. incognito is a grade A certified douchebag. screw that guyComment
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what makes anyone here have the ability to make a judgment as to how the man is personally? you can dislike him as a player for getting penalties or whatever your reasoning is, but to talk about this guy like you know him personally or like you have any knowledge of the culture in the phins locker room is ridiculous.
stop letting espn control you.
NFL locker rooms all have this type of culture. just because one guy all of a sudden has an issue with another guy, does not mean this one guy is the problem. It does not mean that this type of banter does not take place in every other locker room in the NFL. If Martin has such an issue with being part of the culture, he should have stepped up like a man and said something to his team or his coaches to end it.
if Icognito is such a bad guy for saying niggah to Martin, then why are other black players defending him? and there is also a video on TMZ of cognito at a bar shouting niggah to Mike Pouncy....so there is clearly a culture within the phins that allows this type of banter.
Dont sit there and compare their culture to your own just because you are ignorant to how things are in the NFLComment
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Just finished reading the latest on this stuff this morning. First I'll say, ESPN and all of the major media outlets (even non-sports) are just ridiculous with this story. I honestly question their motives and truths, aside from them looking for ratings***. That being said, I'm starting to think this whole situation is just fucking.............weird. Just read about people who've talked with more players on the team, even had a quote from Mike Wallace. Most players are backing Incognito here. Then you also have have pics of Martin and Incognito together hanging out and joking around as recent as a couple weeks ago.
-I think Incognito went too far in what he thought was ball busting. It's obvious he is going to lose his job, but I think it may be because the shit has hit the fan so hard Miami has no choice but to cut him due to the public fallout.
-I think Jonathan Martin has valid mental problems. Probably Bi-polar. It's now being reported that Martin went AWOL during training camp this year as well. Nobody has ever said anything about this earlier. I think Martin has some serious mental issues and has lost it due to the pressure he faced to replace Jake long, and subsequently playing terrible and being moved back to RT. Incognito's ball busting just happened to be the powder keg. Add this to the fact he is already an introvert and well known/scouted to be athletic, but "soft" when it comes to O-linemen.
Like I said, this whole thing is fucking weird, and honestly I couldn't care less that both players aren't there anymore. My guess is most players on the team don't give a shit either if you could get them to answer honestly as to whether it's really a big deal to them in the grand scheme of their life and work. The Dolphins are 4-4 and still in it, and Incognito and Martin have contributed to being the worst O-line in the league. McKinnie has played well since showing up, and Nate Garner stepped in admirably for Incognito last Thurs. when he was injured.
***One example: Cris Carter last night on Monday Night countdown and this morning on Mike & Mike having the audacity to napalm the players, coaches and front office of Miami and calling it a racist place. This motherfucking guy has been put on record multiple times by people as being one of the biggest asshole's/dickhead to teammates and coaches in his career. Now he's a moral compass?Last edited by f16harm; 11-05-2013, 09:28 AM.Comment
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This is as stupid of a post I've seen in a while.
It's like saying, "don't judge gangbangers in Compton because their culture is different from yours."
If a person is an idiot then he is an idiot and everyone has the right to judge accordingly.
The moral standard for society is set by civilized people, not football locker room goons.
Cris Carter was a competitor and an asshole on the football field. Everyone seems to love him off the field. There is a huge difference between an egomaniac like Carter or Terrell Owens and a violent, drug and alcohol abusing, out of control racist pig.
The video from TMZ tells you all you need to know about Incognito. Guy is a straight up moron. Grown man running around with his shirt off yelling nigger in a bar. Complete idiot.
Even without the video, Incognito's track record is clear. 10 years, 2 different colleges, 3 different NFL teams, voted dirtiest player in the league, countless amount of unsportsmanlike penalties, etc. I think we absolutely know enough about this guy to judge him.
Don't be such a pussy. Hold yourself to higher standards than idiots like this.Last edited by Tailback U; 11-05-2013, 10:43 AM.Comment
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Yeah, I think it's safe to say I know what kind of guy Incognito is. You can play your "it's not fair to judge him" pussy card all you want but it's weak and naive.Richie Incognito's bully reputation goes back to 2002
Richie Incognito once bullied a teammate so badly that the teammate suddenly got up from the ground and stomped out of football practice.
It was early 2002 — long before Incognito was accused of similar behavior with the Miami Dolphins. Incognito was just a freshman at Nebraska, but that didn't stop him from picking fights or harassing teammates, in this case a non-scholarship offensive lineman named Jack Limbaugh. Incognito plowed into Limbaugh's back during practice, knocking him to the ground for no apparent reason.
Limbaugh responded by getting up, grabbing his equipment and walking out, according to the diary of teammate David Kolowski.
THE END? Incognito could be cut loose
DOLPHINS: Open to workplace review
"Richie was a guy who came in with all the talent in the world, and Jack was an easy mark for a guy like Richie, who came across as a bully," Kolowski told USA TODAY Sports on Monday. "Jack was a walk-on just trying to make the team. There was a bit of that kind of bullying with Jack. He didn't appreciate it, but in that culture you don't run and cry to the coaches."
Limbaugh didn't immediately return messages seeking comment. He rejoined the team and graduated in 2004. But the pattern stuck for Incognito. And this time might finally be his last. The Dolphins suspended Incognito on Sunday amid allegations he bullied a younger teammate, Jonathan Martin, who left the team.
"Hate is a strong word but I've always hated Incognito," Lawrence Jackson, a former NFL defensive end, said Monday on Twitter. "Just for perspective, he's the guy that makes you want to spit in his face."
BELL COLUMN: Incognito case shows leadership void in Miami
So how is he still employed in the NFL?
One word: Talent. In football, mean streaks can be assets as long as they stay under control. But that has always been the issue for Incognito: Can he control it this time after not being able to control it previously?
The answer — again — appears to be no. Since his freshman year at Nebraska, all of his college and pro teams have ended up suspending him, cutting ties with him or both.
This time, the NFL is investigating voice and text messages sent by Incognito to Martin. Some reportedly contain a racial slur and vulgar threats.
There's a pattern at work here, much of which resembles an old stereotype: The privileged jock who likes to make life miserable for opponents and easy targets. Indeed, a sign in Incognito's locker boasted, "There are two things Richie Incognito does not like: taxes and rookies." But it's more complicated.
In previous interviews with reporters, Incognito and his father indicated other students ridiculed him for being overweight as a child, especially during sixth grade in Glendale, Ariz. His father, Richie Sr., a Vietnam veteran, told NFL.com that he gave his son advice: "If you let anyone give you (expletive) now, you're going to take (expletive) your entire life."
It's a common cycle for victims of various kinds of abuse, including bullying. Those who suffered often repeat the abuse themselves, especially when they accumulate power over others when they get older.
"When somebody is bullied or there's any type of abuse in their life, we see the cycle of abuse repeated in many different ways," said Shana Alexander, a psychologist in California who has worked with sports teams. "They act out sometimes all the way through their lives. Unless that person can recognize they have issues and want to change that pattern, it tends to want to repeat itself."
Just don't expect his victims to give him much sympathy. The issues stretch back at least as far as his Nebraska years, when he was convicted of misdemeanor assault and suspended from the team at least two times before transferring to Oregon in 2004. He often instigated fights with teammates and was ejected from a game for fighting in 2002. In 2003, he allegedly spat at opponents in the Alamo Bowl. Oregon even cut him loose before he participated in a single practice.
"He didn't know where to draw the line," said Kolowski, who published Diary of a Husker.
In the NFL, he quickly gained a reputation as a dirty player, even being voted as the league's dirtiest in a 2009 survey by the Sporting News.
The St. Louis Rams gave up on him after he head-butted two opponents in 2009, the latest of the 38 penalties he committed with the Rams in four seasons. The Buffalo Bills claimed him, but dumped him after three games, leading him to Miami, where he seemed to settle down after signing in 2010. He spoke of getting treatment for depression and learning from his mistakes.
But in August, Houston Texans defensive end Antonio Smith ripped off Incognito's helmet and swung it at his face. He said Incognito instigated it — a common accusation from opponents, who say he pinches them in piles and takes cheap shots at them when he can get away with it.
Kolowski, his old teammate at Nebraska, called him "hyper-active."
Jackson, the former NFL defensive lineman, called him something else.
"Richie Incognito is... a dirty and disrespectful player," Jackson said on Twitter. "For those wondering...I played him 4x when I was with Seattle. We all knew to watch our KNEES and be alert for his antics."
Contributing: Lorenzo Reyes in Davie, Fla.Comment
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It's becoming more and more obvious through interviews with players that Martin is the one teammates thought had a problem. "Forgive and Forget"? Why would Martin have to be forgiven if they thought he was the true victim? Just passing along info here.....even though Tailback U has this all figured out already.DAVIE – In the macho, testosterone-filled NFL, Dolphins guard Richie Incognito is a guy you want on your team. Or at least that’s what the Dolphins would lead you to believe.
Incognito, the Pro Bowl guard, is almost universally loved in the Dolphins’ lockerroom.
I say “almost” because I have a feeling tackle Jonathan Martin might not feel the same way.
The key is Martin’s teammates seem to feel that way.
Defensive end Derrick Shelby was asked Monday if he’d be fine with Martin returning to the team. Shelby said yes.
“Forgive and forget,” he said. “It’s in the Bible.”
Martin, the guy who left the team because he was allegedly being bullied by Incogntio, is the one that to be forgiven?
Perhaps Shelby simply misspoke. After all, he’s one of the players who actually took the time to send Martin a text to check on his well-being.
But the deeper part of Shelby’s sentiment, the part that fascinates me, is the players seemed to have little regard for Martin on a personal level. It’s almost as though the train is pulling out of the station, and if Martin isn’t on it he’ll be left behind. Damn his feelings.
I understand that’s life in the NFL. The schedule won’t wait for this Incognito-Martin issue to be resolved. There’s another game coming up, Monday in Tampa Bay. From that standpoint, the players can’t stand still. They have to move forward. They have to focus on their profession. I get it.
However, there was very little compassion in the Dolphins’ lockerroom on Monday. And that’s more troubling than having a leadership void.
It’s interesting that in the civilian world, the non-football world, that is, Martin gets a certain degree of credit for having the courage to say he refuses to be bullied anymore.
In the NFL/sports world, however, it’s almost as though Martin is the problem. It’s as though he shouldn’t have allowed himself to be bullied. He’s 6-foot-5, more than 300 pounds. He should have taken care of this physically, man-to-man. He’s in the NFL.
It makes you wonder.
You wonder if Martin’s teammates have seen what Incognito is alleged to have said in that phone message to Martin. You wonder if they know Incognito is alleged to have used a racial slur, alleged to have said he wanted to defecate in Martin’s mouth, and alleged to have said he wants to slap Martin’s mother in the face.
And you wonder if they did know – most of these guys are online frequently – if it pained them to walk the company line on Monday, supporting a guy who reportedly harassed and bullied Martin to the point he doesn’t feel it’s a safe work environment.
The NFL doesn’t allow much space for individuals. You have to conform, you have to do what you're told, you have to be a team player. And above all, don't complain. Otherwise, you’re a problem child.
Dolphins players didn’t offer Martin nearly the same support Monday as they did Incognito, a meat-and-potatoes guy if ever there was one.
The players love Incognito, they like Martin. Incognito is a better player than Martin. And Incognito is the resident funny guy, the cut-up, the class clown, the crazy one who keeps everyone laughing.
Martin is reserved, quiet, much more of an introvert. And he’s allowed seven sacks.
This is a huge problem. And let’s be honest, it’s what complicates this situation for players as well as coach Joe Philbin and the Dolphins. They both like and need Incognito, apparently more than Martin.
Here’s what the players told each other on Monday:
“Stick together,” cornerback R.J. Stanford said. “And just leave it up to Philbin, because I know the NFL is about to do a review on it. Besides that, Philbin is taking care of it and he’s just giving us information as it comes along.”
That's what NFL teams tell their players. "Don't worry about it, we'll handle it. You just focus on winning."
Football players often wear blinders during the season. They don’t read the vast majority of things written about the team. So it’s possible on Monday, when the horde of national media invaded their lockerroom, they truly didn’t know what Incognito is alleged to have said and done.
But the Dolphins are off today. You can be sure players will do some investigating on their own and not totally trust the words coming from Philbin and the organization.
So maybe Wednesday’s responses will differ from Monday’s. Maybe Martin’s teammates will show a more human, compassionate side.
We’ll see.Comment
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your judging a culture that has been in place for 50 or more years. just because 1 guy all of a sudden cries about it, that doesnt make everyone else bad people. it also doesnt make it wrong. How many times have people cried about the pussification of the NFL or society. You gonna sit there and tell me a grown man cant handle his business without crying about it in the media? If martin had an issue he should have handled it himself. But now, he created a shitstorm and allowing people who have no knowledge of a locker room to act they have a say as to what goes on.Comment
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and tailback, why do you keep calling me a pussy? isnt that the same behavior your are saying isnt ok? i never called you a name or insulted you. i wasnt even refering to you or directing comment to you. But you come in and start using derogatory terms and throwing insults at me. seems hypocritical to take a stance against what you call bullying name calling, and then use those same insults to make your point.Comment
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