The General Wrestling Thread

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

If they get the 1-2 million subscribers they think they'll get, that's $10-$20M per month off the network alone, and they won't give a flying fuck if that cannibalizes PPV, let alone a comparatively tiny revenue stream like DVD.

120,000 PPV buys times, let's say, $25 when factoring a third party split, that's $3M. That's only 300K network subs to break even on PPV. But then you have to consider WrestleMania's 1.2M buys. That's $30M! Now, they won't lose all of that, because they won't lose every single PPV buy (international, some people will prefer to get the more stable/higher quality TV feed, etc), but you can see where they are needing 1M+ subscribers to make this thing work. That's not even factoring in things like start up costs, the DVD revenue you brought up, etc.

If this thing isn't close to or over 1M by Mania, i'd be shitting bricks. Because Mania is the big hook. If you aren't buying it by Mania, you likely aren't buying it.

Not only is that 10-20M per month, since it comes in 6-month packages...that is an easy peezy 60-120M in advance revenue for the company.

I gotta be honest...looking at the NUMBERZ, the WWE Network would have to be a super flop for the WWE not to make out on the deal. They are cutting out middle men all over the place and ALL DA REVENUES BELONG TO US!

[Guest]

Not only is that 10-20M per month, since it comes in 6-month packages...that is an easy peezy 60-120M in advance revenue for the company.

I gotta be honest...looking at the NUMBERZ, the WWE Network would have to be a super flop for the WWE not to make out on the deal. They are cutting out middle men all over the place and ALL DA REVENUES BELONG TO US!

And if it works out even half as well as they are projecting, it's a model for just about any other company out there to try and use.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Meanwhile, Dana sits back and watches from the shadows.

WWE is essentially out of the PPV game. If you are a crossover fan, this gives you more money per month to spend on UFC, or eliminates the choice, because most people will see $9.99 as essentially $0 in this context.

So this can be a boon for UFC, or it can can be a killer if people get used to this, or clamor for something similar. UFC does much better on PPV than WWE, and unlike WWE it's the prime revenue stream. So they would either need significantly more than 1-2M subscribers, or would have to charge more money. It would be hard to justify charging more than $9.99. WWE went with that because they felt they had to be competitive with Netflix. UFC can't come in higher now. Shit, they are charging the same for FIght Pass now, and offering a fraction of content that WWE offers, both in terms of no PPV, and a tiny library in comparison.

This is the biggest story in the industry in years. It's fascinating to watch it unfold.

What is funny is, this whole story happened when the WWE Network was on the verge of flopping because stations LIKE DIRECTV turned them down to distribute the network.

So, the WWE said "fuck you" and somebody...I'd love to know who...pitched the idea, and its genius.

It is going to be one of the first "a la carte" television packages...HBOGo and WatchESPN and a few others are already out, but they are there to compliment the pre-existing service. The WWE going solo is a pretty fucking important, and it means more to the world of television then simply the UFC.

Companies like DirecTV are shaking in their boots.

[FedEx227]

Not only is that 10-20M per month, since it comes in 6-month packages...that is an easy peezy 60-120M in advance revenue for the company.

I gotta be honest...looking at the NUMBERZ, the WWE Network would have to be a super flop for the WWE not to make out on the deal. They are cutting out middle men all over the place and ALL DA REVENUES BELONG TO US!

I think overall they'll lose money when this project begins because it's going to have a tremendous effect on some of their other core revenue streams namely Big 3 PPVs which still do well on PPV and home video business. Remember that they are essentially undercutting the prices of all they currently offer for this Network. I think over time it will be a huge success and I think its a project they absolutely have to do but I don't think it's going to be a huge cash cow right away.

[calgaryballer]

Yah, I'm not really sure what DTV's outcome in this is. They stop selling PPV's? WWE is going to be packing RAW/Smackdown with ads hyping this product. $9.99 is at that level for people who have disposable income to go 'eeeehhhhhh, whateves, it's only $10'. Hell, I haven't watched a WWE TV show or PPV in YEARS and I'm even thinking it's a pretty good price for a couple of hours of enjoyment a month.

From a purely selfish point of view, I want this to blow up massively. The more things I can get at reasonable prices like this, with genuinely good content libraries, the better. And I guarantee that WWE's piracy levels drop. If the UFC were to offer something similar (where live fights are included, and not just shitty Asian shows or TUF finales), I would throw my money at them so fast.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Although he hasn't even officially made his return to WWE TV, former WWE World champion Batista is already making waves within the locker room following comments made on Twitter.
During Raw, after defeating Sin Cara, Alberto Del Rio announced he was entering the Royal Rumble and cut a promo regarding the returning Batista.

Batista responded via Twitter asking, "Who is Alberto Del Rio?"

Del Rio wrote back to Batista via Twitter, "I'm the one wining all the major titles while u were getting ur ass kick by your plumber (Vince lucero) See u at the rumble".

Vince Lucero was the MMA fighter Batista defeated in October 2012 in his first and only professional MMA bout.

Batista then cryptically wrote, "Seems 2 me that some C level stars in a B level star era have bought into their own hype. Don’t turn a work into a shoot. #realitycheck"

While the Tweet was deleted at some point yesterday, Batista's comments have been a big topic of discussion among wrestlers in the company who felt he pretty much buried the entire locker room in one fell swoop. One person compared them to Triple H once saying Undertaker was the only person worthy of wrestling him in the entire locker room.

Since it's assumed Batista is returning to the company and walking into a main event level bout at Wrestlemania, there are already some ruffled feathers among talents and the comments were hardly the best way for him to ingratiate himself back into the locker room.

Batista is set to return to Raw on the 1/20 episode broadcast from Dayton, Ohio. It's believed he signed a multi-year deal with the company.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Yah, I'm not really sure what DTV's outcome in this is. They stop selling PPV's? WWE is going to be packing RAW/Smackdown with ads hyping this product. $9.99 is at that level for people who have disposable income to go 'eeeehhhhhh, whateves, it's only $10'. Hell, I haven't watched a WWE TV show or PPV in YEARS and I'm even thinking it's a pretty good price for a couple of hours of enjoyment a month.

From a purely selfish point of view, I want this to blow up massively. The more things I can get at reasonable prices like this, with genuinely good content libraries, the better. And I guarantee that WWE's piracy levels drop. If the UFC were to offer something similar (where live fights are included, and not just shitty Asian shows or TUF finales), I would throw my money at them so fast.

Piracy is dead.

If you aren't willing or able to pay $9.99, then you were never going to be a customer to begin with. So any piracy moving forward is no longer "lost" revenue, it's simply revenue you were never going to have in the first place. So it's essentially meaningless.

[FedEx227]

The big question regarding how much money they'll make here is how does the network affect those who are already buying PPVs, buying DVDs, etc.

Sure, you'll get the Warner and Larrys and even myself paying $10 per month but if those people who were paying $60 (WWE was getting ~$18) and were buying DVDs stop buying traditional PPVs and DVDs and start just doing the $10 there's obviously a loss in revenue there.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I think overall they'll lose money when this project begins because it's going to have a tremendous effect on some of their other core revenue streams namely Big 3 PPVs which still do well on PPV and home video business. Remember that they are essentially undercutting the prices of all they currently offer for this Network. I think over time it will be a huge success and I think its a project they absolutely have to do but I don't think it's going to be a huge cash cow right away.

It is a paradigm shift...they will have to get their core audience adjusted.

I see it ultimately as this company forfeiting some revenue on WM, SS, and the Rumble to have that output spread out throughout the 12 months. Secondary PPVs are shit anyway...basically evens out their distribution of revenue over 12 months instead of waiting for BLACK SUNDAY (WrestleMania Weekend).

With that said, as long as WWE PPVs are available for the typical distributor companies, they will still make money off traditional PPV buys (it won't just die immediately).

So while "WWE Network" might lose a bit up front, I think the company as a whole will be better off.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Piracy is dead.

If you aren't willing or able to pay $9.99, then you were never going to be a customer to begin with. So any piracy moving forward is no longer "lost" revenue, it's simply revenue you were never going to have in the first place. So it's essentially meaningless.

The idea that piracy was ever "lost revenue" was a false PR spin copyright owners used to help deter it. They played the moral and sympathy card, despite it being long considered false that piracy was a chief source for lost revenue. Even if it was, you can not determine a pirated item is something that person would have purchased anyway.

Music/Film industry have used this rationale in the court room and failed.

[Warner2BruceTD]

The idea that piracy was ever "lost revenue" was a false PR spin copyright owners used to help deter it. They played the moral and sympathy card, despite it being long considered false that piracy was a chief source for lost revenue. Even if it was, you can not determine a pirated item is something that person would have purchased anyway.

Music/Film industry have used this rationale in the court room and failed.

We'll see.

You, me, Fed, and the people in this thread will be ex-pirates come 2/24.

I firmly believe piracy is driven mostly by price point. WWE PPV's are almost never worth what is asked. We'll find out if $9.99 is "fair" or not soon enough.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Prime example, I feel like I get my money's worth with New Japan, so I pay despite knowing I can easily watch 48 hours later for free. For me there is an inherent value in paying to see it live.

I feel like at $9.99, WWE is also giving me something worth my money, so i'll buy instead of watching the hemanthjava feed.

[FedEx227]

It is a paradigm shift...they will have to get their core audience adjusted.

I see it ultimately as this company forfeiting some revenue on WM, SS, and the Rumble to have that output spread out throughout the 12 months. Secondary PPVs are shit anyway...basically evens out their distribution of revenue over 12 months instead of waiting for BLACK SUNDAY (WrestleMania Weekend).

With that said, as long as WWE PPVs are available for the typical distributor companies, they will still make money off traditional PPV buys (it won't just die immediately).

So while "WWE Network" might lose a bit up front, I think the company as a whole will be better off.

Totally agree with this part. It will take a year or two but if the WWE is patient with it and lets it breath, it will revolutionize their business and the way they do business.

[JimLeavy59]

lol DirectV is threatening to drop WWE ppv's because of this.

[FedEx227]

"We don't want to take a percentage of your revenues anymore!"