Bad Baseball Statements

[FirstTimer]

PICKIN' MACHINE

 

[Slateman]

Not what I thought they would look like ...

 

[Villain]

An Arizona fan from a different forum. He thinks that the reason for the Dodgers/Dbacks brawl was because the Diamondbacks have been beating the Dodgers lately.

Damn, Dodgers are such freakin sore losers. Guess all the frustration of us kicking their ass for a while got released tonight.

I'm sure that's it and it had nothing to do with throwing a fastball at the opposing pitchers head. :hodor:

 

[NAHSTE]

This is the worst shit I have ever read and it makes me angry that someone got paid to write such a poorly formed composition. There are like 15 ironic retweets from @FanSince09 in here.

http://www.macon.com/2013/06/25/2532801/heyward-following-francoeurs-career.html

Heyward following Francoeur’s career path

The similarities are striking. Both were high school baseball stars in Georgia. Both were first-round draft picks of their favorite and hometown team, the Atlanta Braves. Both play right field.

And, unfortunately, their career paths seem to be going in the same direction.

Bleacher Report caliber lead graph, k. I think I like where this is headed. :dd:

Jeff Francoeur was Atlanta’s top pick in the 2002 draft. Jason Heyward got the honors five years later. In effect, Heyward replaced Francoeur, who was traded a half-season before Heyward made his big league debut in 2010.

Perhaps the expectations were just too high for both to ever live up to. It’s not easy for a young star to play in his own back yard, with his friends and family watching even more closely than if they were playing in Seattle.

True. Seattle is great for young stars. Definitely an easier environment. :dd:

But both players are struggling to get over that hump and become the complete player they were supposed to be. It’s getting a little late for Francoeur, who is 29 now. And if Heyward doesn’t get his career back on track, he might follow the same fate.

As the Braves opened their series in Kansas City Tuesday night, the statistics stuck out like a sore thumb. Francoeur, now in his third season with the Royals, was hitting .212 with three home runs, 13 RBI, a .254 on-base percentage and a .330 slugging percentage in 179 at-bats.

Heyward was hitting .211 with five home runs, 13 RBI, a .312 on-base percentage and a .332 slugging percentage in 190 at-bats. What is basically the difference in those two sets of numbers? Heyward has walked 15 times more than Francoeur, which has always been Francoeur’s Achilles’ heel

When the Braves decided to cut bait with Francoeur almost four years ago, his numbers were not that much different than what Heyward has done in his three-plus seasons with the Braves. Francoeur had hit .266 with Atlanta, along with 78 home runs, 359 RBI and a .308 on-base percentage in 631 games.

Heyward has hit .255 in his 480 games with the Braves. He has hit 64 home runs and driven in 209 runs, with a .348 on-base percentage.

So like, he's been significantly better in fewer games?

But the numbers have trended downward for Heyward since his rookie season. Since the start of the 2011 season, Heyward is hitting only .246 with an on-base percentage of .326. That is much worse than the .277 batting average and .393 on-base percentage Heyward had in his solid rookie season.

Very true. He was also injured through all of 2011 though, and immediately got good again the next year.

Both Francoeur and Heyward are outstanding fielders,

:jonesy:

with rocket arms in right field.

Ok yeah Frenchy does have a rocket arm.

They are also both very good baserunners.

:jonesy:

But again, the only difference between the two players is that Heyward walks more and is a more patient hitter than Francoeur.

THAT IS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE. WALKS MORE AND IS MORE PATIENT. AND IS BETTER AT EVERYTHING ELSE BUT AGAIN, THOSE ARE THE ONLY DIFFERENCES.

It was easy to believe Heyward might be on track last year, when he stayed healthy and hit .269 and clubbed 27 home runs and drove in 82. But he has just struggled to be productive this season. Perhaps it’s because Heyward mainly has batted second in the lineup, which has been a disaster.

Same place he batted his rookie season and last season... why would that be a reason? Even if we were to pretend a hitter could magically get worse based on where he was batting in the order, this is where Heyward has batted during his two best seasons. What the fuck kind of logical path are you going down here?

But even after returning from his appendectomy in May, Heyward still has not done particularly well. He has hit only .250 with a .336 on-base percentage since getting off the disabled list.

That's not great, kind of average numbers, true. Good thing it's still June and there are 90 more games.

Here’s the problem. We thought Francoeur was going to be a great player -- the next Dale Murphy.

Nobody thought that.
:no:

He turned out to be only decent.

Decent? He's the worst everyday player in the majors for fucks sake.

And it looks like Heyward is going in that same direction. The skills are there, but he’s just not the outstanding player we thought he was going to be.

With Jordan Schafer doing well in the lineup, when given the opportunity, Heyward is all of a sudden under pressure to do well. The Braves are pretty much stuck with Justin Upton and B.J. Upton. Both are under long-term contracts and just joined the team this year. Heyward, who reportedly turned down a long-term contract from the Braves last offseason, is the most expendable of the three main outfield starters.

What? Both Heyward and JUp have two years left under contract after this season. Same contract length. And jonesy at the rest of that shit.

And if Heyward doesn’t turn things around, he could face the same exact outcome as Francoeur, who was traded after almost four complete seasons in Atlanta. Heyward’s fourth season ends in September, and many won’t be disappointed if he’s finishing it in another uniform.

MANY WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED IF HE'S FINISHING IT IN ANOTHER UNIFORM. Heh.

Maybe there’s still hope for Heyward, who is surprisingly viewed more positively than he should be, considering his lackluster statistics. But the Braves are desperate for some offensive consistency, and if Heyward’s not good enough to be in the lineup, he’ll be the latest hometown talent shuffled out of town.

:rockclap:

 

[Villain]

Damn. I didn't realize Heyward was so shitty this year.

 

[NAHSTE]

Damn. I didn't realize Heyward was so shitty this year.

He had a really slow start then missed a month after his appendix was removed. Since then he's been solidly above average, and he's been raking in June (.297/.350/450). He was having some really bad batted ball luck early on in the year which has started to correct itself somewhat - had a .343 BABIP in June and his season figure is still in the .240s.

Besides the hilarious aspect that he went 2-3 with a 2RBI double and the go-ahead homer last night, it's a really bizarre time to write an attack piece on Heyward. He's been on a tear anyway, and this was about the time last year that it clicked for him. Was batting .233 at the start of last June, then hit .348 with 6 HR over the next month and never looked back.

 

[NAHSTE]

Since that column was posted on Monday, Heyward is 7-15 with 1 HR, 3 2B, 4 RBI, 4 R ... and Jeff Francoeur was DFA'd by the Royals.

Exact same careers paths, though. :dd:

 

[Pitty]

Since that column was posted on Monday, Heyward is 7-15 with 1 HR, 3 2B, 4 RBI, 4 R ... and Jeff Francoeur was DFA'd by the Royals.

Exact same careers paths, though. :dd:

Uptons still suck doe.

 

[FirstTimer]

"There is no cause for concern over Starlin Castro's slump/regression"
-CCS Beisbol Forum

 

[Villain]

Since that column was posted on Monday, Heyward is 7-15 with 1 HR, 3 2B, 4 RBI, 4 R ... and Jeff Francoeur was DFA'd by the Royals.

Exact same careers paths, though. :dd:

People had been making that same Francouer/Puig analogy two weeks ago. We get it, small-sample-size blah blah blah. You can't use Jeff Francouer to invalidate every player's hot start.

 

[NAHSTE]

From the shoutbox ...

he also has similarities to Bo Jackson, except that his start has been better and he's a superior physical specimen. why didn't you post those?

well he's taller and weighs more. just about the same amount of speed....

Should be fairly obvious who is responsible for such asinine claims.

 

[Slateman]

"Gold glove caliber defense"*

Look, I consider GG defense and elite defense to be the same. To me, elite puts you in the top 10% at your position. So, the two or three best at that position. This is, surprisingly, few people, yet every fan of every team claims that some player plays "GG caliber defense." No, you idiot, they play good defense. Maybe they play very good defense. But chances are, they aren't the best at their position.


I hear this shit all the time, especially about a guy like Danny Espinosa. He's a very good defender at second base. He's never once placed in the top 5 of UZR or DRS. He is very good, no question. Has a strong arm, and lots of range. But he isn't the best. He isn't elite. He doesn't play "Gold Glove caliber" defense, so stop saying it, mkay?


* I'm ignoring the fact that the GG is little more than a popularity contest. How else do you explain Matt Kemp, Andrew McCutcheon, and Adam Jones getting GGs over Chris Young, Michael Bourn, and Mike Trout?

 

[NAHSTE]

"Gold glove caliber defense"*

Look, I consider GG defense and elite defense to be the same. To me, elite puts you in the top 10% at your position. So, the two or three best at that position. This is, surprisingly, few people, yet every fan of every team claims that some player plays "GG caliber defense." No, you idiot, they play good defense. Maybe they play very good defense. But chances are, they aren't the best at their position.


I hear this shit all the time, especially about a guy like Danny Espinosa. He's a very good defender at second base. He's never once placed in the top 5 of UZR or DRS. He is very good, no question. Has a strong arm, and lots of range. But he isn't the best. He isn't elite. He doesn't play "Gold Glove caliber" defense, so stop saying it, mkay?


* I'm ignoring the fact that the GG is little more than a popularity contest. How else do you explain Matt Kemp, Andrew McCutcheon, and Adam Jones getting GGs over Chris Young, Michael Bourn, and Mike Trout?

I think I have a post somewhere in this thread on the "Gold Glove caliber" label as well, it's thrown around all the time by Braves fans when evaluating Freddie Freeman, which make it even more hilarious since he's below average defensively.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

From another board...

So other than wins and allowing less hits (both significantly), and a shakier bullpen, Felix is better. Hmmm.

The problem with basing your whole argument and analyzing stats to the extent you have done with era+ and ballpark stuff is that you fall into a hole and lose the element of subjectivity. Which baseball is the most subjective of all major sports. How much is dependent on matters out of a particular pitchers hand?

I would argue it is easier to pitch in Seattle. Less stress. Klieg lights a whole lot less bright. It's 10Pm on the east before half of their games start

Having to spend so many nights in or near Detroit has to also effect mentality. Compare the two cities crime rates and even look at clean air reports. Have statistical models accounted for that?

Who has won bigger, more important, games? Has a model been developed to give weight to a game based upon how "big" it was? Certainly pitching in front of 20k fans against the Astros in a meaningless game between two sub .500 teams should mean less than a stout road performance in a pennant race. Even if in that game while garnering a no decision Felix allowed one less walk

Don't get me wrong. Bill James and sabermetrics have their place but the danger is losing sight of common sense stuff and falling way too far into a statistical hole

Yes, he cited Detroit's crime rate & lack of clean air as a factor in the Cy Young race. And he wasn't trolling.

 

[NAHSTE]

Having to spend so many nights in or near Detroit has to also effect mentality. Compare the two cities crime rates and even look at clean air reports. Have statistical models accounted for that?

Having to spend so many nights in or near Detroit has to also effect mentality. Compare the two cities crime rates and even look at clean air reports. Have statistical models accounted for that?

Having to spend so many nights in or near Detroit has to also effect mentality. Compare the two cities crime rates and even look at clean air reports. Have statistical models accounted for that?

 

[Primetime]

By far one of the best things I've ever read. Thank you for blessing me with these current feels.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

From the Reds comment section:

Can someone tell me what is wrong with Joey Votto? For over month, he has been playing like he is in dream land. Sometimes, he appears to want to be anywhere other than in a baseball park. I even thought that maybe he is in love. You know when young men fall in love, their minds are everywhere, but where they should be. I was there once

Have you ever seen a team with no gas, just pathetic, lackluster to say the least, what more can I say, In the clutch - strike out or double play is the name of this team. Bruce - SO, Votto - Judy hitter and begs for walks. Where's the RBI man to bat them in? With Votto's money - one would hope that he would stop umpiring while batting - foul off the close ones and make the pitcher pitch. As far as the Reds swinging at the first pitch - wouldn't it be nice to see what the pitcher has or hasn't. Swinging at the first pitch doesn't help your hitting - just helps the pitcher! Oh boy, need new blood in there! What can I say....

Should have kept Alonso.

 

[NAHSTE]

WAR blows.

I remember SC this year after the Cards signed Beltran trying to spin how they mightnot miss Pujols since Beltran and Pujols had similar WAR's last season.

WAR IMO is built on subjective metrics that ignore massive amounts of context.

Good thread would read again.

 

[Woy]

https://twitter.com/JoshDBresser

Mostly everything this guy says. He's a real hoot when the Reds are struggling early in the season.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

https://twitter.com/JoshDBresser

Mostly everything this guy says. He's a real hoot when the Reds are struggling early in the season.

https://twitter.com/mrnewspaperguy/status/457964796697411584