Champions League Discussion

[DDRGuido]

Re: Shaktar, they have a group of Brazilians that have been playing together for years. The training facilities are top notch (France stayed there during the Euros) and they are currently 12-0-0 in the Ukranian League. It's an upset, but they are an extremely talented Eastern European team.

Yeah and now they are 6-0-0 at home in Champions League play.

 

[kyhadley]

What a great day!

 

[Rudi]

And City is out of the CL again.

:natsplayoffs:

 

[Fappin Raptor]

And City is out of the CL again.

:natsplayoffs:

 

[1ke]

I have nothing more that needs to be said.

Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Bigpapa42]

I have to give a very sincere thank you to Manchester City, for taking what would otherwise be a rather frustrating day for Arsenal supporters and managing to very effectively nullify that. Kudos for that.

























:yao:

 

[1ke]

I really really have nothing more to add.....








































































































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[1ke]

Can I put Concacaf CL in here. Since Toronto is playing Santos tonight and ill be watchin.

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[Chrispy]

Sure, why not

 

[calgaryballer]

SkySports HD Highlights

 

http://hotfile.com/dl/177369871/93b95fa/20121024-UCLG-720.mkv.html

Let me know if these are of/are not of any value to you guys. I figure I can share the wealth. Might start putting MOTD links in the EPL discussions as well.

 

[RyanLeaf16]

Just finished watching the Man City/Ajax match. Again I come away disappointed in our performance in the CL. I just don't know why we come off so poorly in the CL. So much for Mancini correcting the issues he claimed to have identified after the Dortmund match.

 

[Rudi]

He panicked and went to a 3 man back line AGAIN. Even after trying it against Dortmund for 5 minutes before abandoning it. It didn't work again. Clichy looks completely lost when forced into that position.

Just awful.

 

[1ke]

He did fix them, he just panicked and broke them again in a matter of minutes.

I tried tellin Rudi this a long time ago, but he thought I was just talkin shit and trollin.

He has won the Italian league title multiple times. He had a squad with Inter that was very good. Pretty decent manager. In fact ill even say good. But in the Champions League, he is fucking awful. I mean brutal. He has never gotten it right. And with the looks of it now. He may never will. You cannot panic like that when you have a 200 million dollar team. His Champions League record got him fired in Italy, and if this happens again, (assuming The Arabs are more patient that Roman A) then he will be axed from there too.

 

[RyanLeaf16]

He panicked and went to a 3 man back line AGAIN. Even after trying it against Dortmund for 5 minutes before abandoning it. It didn't work again. Clichy looks completely lost when forced into that position.

Just awful.

I know the announcers were mentioning that he kept looking toward Mancini and pointing as if he were asking where to go. I was shocked we fell apart like we did though. That Richards pass to Milner and then the pass to Nasri for the goal was fucking gorgeous - I thought for sure we were leaving with 3 points. Technically, we are still in it, but, it's a tough road to hoe with matches away against Madrid and Dortmund. I think we can return the favor against Ajax at the Etihad. To me, it looks like we just played poorly and Ajax took advantage of that opportunity...I don't see them overpowering us when playing to our full potential.

He did fix them, he just panicked and broke them again in a matter of minutes.

I tried tellin Rudi this a long time ago, but he thought I was just talkin shit and trollin.

He has won the Italian league title multiple times. He had a squad with Inter that was very good. Pretty decent manager. In fact ill even say good. But in the Champions League, he is fucking awful. I mean brutal. He has never gotten it right. And with the looks of it now. He may never will. You cannot panic like that when you have a 200 million dollar team. His Champions League record got him fired in Italy, and if this happens again, (assuming The Arabs are more patient that Roman A) then he will be axed from there too.

I read the article where he said he knew what the issues were and he was going to correct them, but, he never elaborated. Keep in mind, this is only my fourth season following international club soccer so I am still learning the game and what to watch for. There are things that I do notice, but, I have no clue what Mancini fixed - so if you can lay some knowledge on me (no sarcasm) please do.

To me, the main focus each season is to be at the top of the Premier League. I want us to do well in the CL, and I don't see why we can't, but, I would like a sustained run of success at the Premier League level before we start axing managers for their performance in the CL.

Can you tell me the advantage of a 3 man backline? I read an article a few weeks ago about how it is seeing a resurgence in the Italian league, but, I also read that it likely won't catch on in the UK for awhile. My understanding for this switch in Italy is that the game is, progressively, being played more at the midfield are of the pitch and some teams find it advantageous to play with a fifth mid, that can drop into a DMF role, rather than four mids. That is about all I got from the article though so I would like to learn more about it.

 

[mgoblue2290]

You have one of the, if not the most expensive team in soccer. Your team's goal should be to win everything it possibly can. There shouldn't be a need to prioritize with all the players you've got. I would argue that being Champions of Europe is a greater accomplishment than winning the league.

 

[RyanLeaf16]

You have one of the, if not the most expensive team in soccer. Your team's goal should be to win everything it possibly can. There shouldn't be a need to prioritize with all the players you've got. I would argue that being Champions of Europe is a greater accomplishment than winning the league.

Winning the CL is a much greater accomplishment. I agree completely. My point is that, there has yet to be a sustained run of success and I would like to see that first before we start getting rid of managers because of CL performances. Don't get me wrong, a few more matches like the one against Ajax, and even Dortmund, and I would want some answers as to why there is such a steep drop-off in play, but, I would set the expectation level for the CL to be that of a run through the knockout stage and allow the expectations to be a progressive build. Maybe the mentality in European Football is different, but, I would like to build a club for a long-run. Which I believe is the strategy. Patrick Viera said, not too long ago, that City will still have big signings, but, to not expect massive moves every transfer window as the club would like to build from their youth academy and supplement that talent down the road with transfers.

 

[seaplus]

City may not win the CL this year, next year, or anytime soon ... but i think (and obviously so does the club and its owners) Mancini is a quality manager and the future of the club looks as bright as any in the world. he may very well try the 3-man backline again and it may very well fail again, but that's not going to get him axed this year. it will sound weird but while winning the CL >>> winning the EPL, more focus is put on winning the EPL at City ... i believe Zab, Komp, and other City players have said such. and so what if City has invest x-amount of dollars thus far; money does not equal immediate all-encompassing success. ADUG is building for the long-term and Mancini is part of that plan. these recent CL matches won't change that.


i think most (non-bandwagon) City fans are pretty realistic with their expectations. while we have the players to win any competition and don't want to lose any of them, there is still a lot to learn for a club new to success. of course Chelsea, United, etc. fans want to put pressure on City and Mancini and say "if he doesn't do this or if he does this then he should be fired." we are taking trophies away from these teams. we are on the right track and a few 'bumps-in-the-road' are to be expected. patience my City brethren. patience.

:kompany:

 

[mgoblue2290]

Winning the CL is a much greater accomplishment. I agree completely. My point is that, there has yet to be a sustained run of success and I would like to see that first before we start getting rid of managers because of CL performances. Don't get me wrong, a few more matches like the one against Ajax, and even Dortmund, and I would want some answers as to why there is such a steep drop-off in play, but, I would set the expectation level for the CL to be that of a run through the knockout stage and allow the expectations to be a progressive build. Maybe the mentality in European Football is different, but, I would like to build a club for a long-run. Which I believe is the strategy. Patrick Viera said, not too long ago, that City will still have big signings, but, to not expect massive moves every transfer window as the club would like to build from their youth academy and supplement that talent down the road with transfers.

Citeh is not a long term club. You all didn't really build anything. Bought a bunch of awesome players and are a good team.

Can't believe Citeh fans are trying to downplay their own expectations right now. If I was a Citeh fan I would expect nothing less than a league title and at least making the semi-finals of the Champions League every year. Way too much money has been spent on that team to be lowering your expectations.

 

[kyhadley]

City fans appear to be very dispassionate. Top 5 most talented team in the world and you don't expect to compete on more than one front? Don't mind if one of your star young players "inevitably" leaves for Madrid?

Mancini's 3-5-2 is an absolute train-wreck and he should not just get a pass. Like mgo said, this is not a long-term project.

 

[1ke]

I know the announcers were mentioning that he kept looking toward Mancini and pointing as if he were asking where to go. I was shocked we fell apart like we did though. That Richards pass to Milner and then the pass to Nasri for the goal was fucking gorgeous - I thought for sure we were leaving with 3 points. Technically, we are still in it, but, it's a tough road to hoe with matches away against Madrid and Dortmund. I think we can return the favor against Ajax at the Etihad. To me, it looks like we just played poorly and Ajax took advantage of that opportunity...I don't see them overpowering us when playing to our full potential.



I read the article where he said he knew what the issues were and he was going to correct them, but, he never elaborated. Keep in mind, this is only my fourth season following international club soccer so I am still learning the game and what to watch for. There are things that I do notice, but, I have no clue what Mancini fixed - so if you can lay some knowledge on me (no sarcasm) please do.

To me, the main focus each season is to be at the top of the Premier League. I want us to do well in the CL, and I don't see why we can't, but, I would like a sustained run of success at the Premier League level before we start axing managers for their performance in the CL.

Can you tell me the advantage of a 3 man backline? I read an article a few weeks ago about how it is seeing a resurgence in the Italian league, but, I also read that it likely won't catch on in the UK for awhile. My understanding for this switch in Italy is that the game is, progressively, being played more at the midfield are of the pitch and some teams find it advantageous to play with a fifth mid, that can drop into a DMF role, rather than four mids. That is about all I got from the article though so I would like to learn more about it.

Im not 100% sure, but after reading around I think him admitting to problems was him saying 3 at the back was shit, and he wouldnt play it anymore. Thats why after he switched back to it was a huge sign of panic. And a mistake. Not to mention Micah Richards saying after the game that they dont even practice this formation makes it even more absurd.

Its still a myth that a 3-5-2 is making some sort of huge comeback, even in Italy. Napoli right now are the only team using it to success, Juve on some occasions, but thats about it as far as Italian teams killing it with a 3-5-2. Pirlo can make it work for Juve because he is an all timer. I mean, all time great player who will be missed. Napoli though, have success because they have crafted their team and built it to play 3-5-2. Maggio never stops, Cannavaro controls the back three(as Kompany has failed to do while playing this formation), Hamsik is allowed to roam and create things(as Yaya should do, but only wants to impose his will when he wants), and Levezzi is world class. They are tailor made for this. City, however are not made specifically for this.

Italian Football is much much different than any other country. Italy is still very technical. Players in Italy are not allowed any space whatsoever. Everyone closes down. No time on the ball to pick passes. All that time you see Yaya on the ball trying to pick a pass doesn't exist in Italy.

The point of playing with 3 at the back is to give your team all the on field flexibility you can ask for. 3 at the back. 2 wing backs. I bolded the wing backs because they are the difference makers. 3 center players. 2 forwards most of the time. But that 3 in the back can turn into 5 man back line instantly, from the 2 wing backs if you need defensive cover. Or on the flip side. Those 2 wing backs join the attack giving you 7 attackers at any time to outnumber the opponents defense. It also allows for your team to use the most amount of the field as possible. Those wing backs are supposed to stay wide, and with a decent middle man who can spread them the ball it would be deadly as they have nothing but space to work with.

IMO.....this might be the best one I can see.

Hart
Ruchards ------ Kompany -------- Lescott
Zabeleta ----------------------------------- Clichy
Barry ------------ Garcia
Toure
Tevez -------------- Kun​

So that back three is set. With a back 3 though, sometimes there is a bit of confusion on who (example... Kompany) takes a single striker, and who covers where when they left from. Meaning if Kompany goes, a step in the wrong direction (for the other 2) leaves a shit ton of space on either side. Your back 3 in that line also have to be very good at coming off that back 3 line. Now ideally those wing backs would always be there for your back 3. But its normal for them to get caught upfield.

It wont catch on in the UK because teams just dont have the players to do it. Maybe 4 teams in England could. But for the most part they are too stuck in their ways.

Winning the CL is a much greater accomplishment. I agree completely. My point is that, there has yet to be a sustained run of success and I would like to see that first before we start getting rid of managers because of CL performances. Don't get me wrong, a few more matches like the one against Ajax, and even Dortmund, and I would want some answers as to why there is such a steep drop-off in play, but, I would set the expectation level for the CL to be that of a run through the knockout stage and allow the expectations to be a progressive build. Maybe the mentality in European Football is different, but, I would like to build a club for a long-run. Which I believe is the strategy. Patrick Viera said, not too long ago, that City will still have big signings, but, to not expect massive moves every transfer window as the club would like to build from their youth academy and supplement that talent down the road with transfers.

Reading the City forums, everyone seems to agree that the MAJOR spending has stopped. No more huge money transfers. This is the team. And this team is damn good enough on paper. But they got rocked by Dortmund, and Ajax passed them off the pitch last IMO. Problem for City is, the same problem as Manchester United. Nobody, and i mean NOBODY really wants to be there. All the foreign players truly hate Manchester England and the shit weather and the British taxes they have to pay. So players will leave. They will go. But still, City fans really should be expecting more with that squad. Seriously......c'mon.

City may not win the CL this year, next year, or anytime soon ... but i think (and obviously so does the club and its owners) Mancini is a quality manager and the future of the club looks as bright as any in the world. he may very well try the 3-man backline again and it may very well fail again, but that's not going to get him axed this year. it will sound weird but while winning the CL >>> winning the EPL, more focus is put on winning the EPL at City ... i believe Zab, Komp, and other City players have said such. and so what if City has invest x-amount of dollars thus far; money does not equal immediate all-encompassing success. ADUG is building for the long-term and Mancini is part of that plan. these recent CL matches won't change that.


i think most (non-bandwagon) City fans are pretty realistic with their expectations. while we have the players to win any competition and don't want to lose any of them, there is still a lot to learn for a club new to success. of course Chelsea, United, etc. fans want to put pressure on City and Mancini and say "if he doesn't do this or if he does this then he should be fired." we are taking trophies away from these teams. we are on the right track and a few 'bumps-in-the-road' are to be expected. patience my City brethren. patience.

:kompany:

Yes Mancini is a very good manager, as he was a very good player too. I already said that.

And yes, money is kinda important here. I mean....just a little no? Youve spent whatever amount. Ok, the problem here is not getting to the knockouts means less money recieved all around. Less prize money due to your finish. Less gameday money. Less TV money. And with FFP kicking in damn soon(next year?) you can only spend what you make. And City is already way behind now, so that doesnt help the cause. As it was for United last season. Uniteds finances last season were completely fucked due to them missing the KOs.

Bump in the road? You think the most expensive team in world football not advancing past the group stages (AGAIN) is a bump in the road? I dont, I think its a huge fuck up.