Dolphins Don Jones suspended for tweeting about Michael Sam

[bucky]

I believe in the fact that a private company you work for can punish you for your opinions and comments when they aren't in line with their vision. Nothing new here, and nothing wrong here.

We disagree. I do think it is wrong. That's 1984 stuff you're talking about. If someone doesn't say something obscene or criminal, and says it in a setting outside the workforce, then a company shouldn't have the power to oppress someones opinion. That company is then taking it's own opinion outside of it's beliefs ethical boundaries and is then being oppressive. I don't think we have the right to pick and choose when oppression is ok and not ok.

 

[Youk]

Agreed... it is in nearly every company hiring packet these days. I had to sign one as well. Many other them have amendments for social media as well and companies have fired people for their comments through social media avenues.

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Exactly, I had to make a work twitter account where I was told to not discuss controversial topics, or really anything that isn't related to the industry. I have a personal and private account where I can say my opinions, and that is allowed as long as I make it known that I'm not a part of the company with that twitter.

 

[Youk]

We disagree. I do think it is wrong. That's 1984 stuff you're talking about. If someone doesn't say something obscene or criminal, and says it in a setting outside the workforce, then a company shouldn't have the power to oppress someones opinion. That company is then taking it's own opinion outside of it's beliefs ethical boundaries and is then being oppressive. I don't think we have the right to pick and choose when oppression is ok and not ok.

You realize he said it about a fellow employee?

 

[NAHSTE]

I already know employers are doing this. Well, I am asking you whether you think it is right or wrong. Shouldn't we be supporting what's right and condemning what's wrong no matter what side of an issue we stand on?

So we're clear, you are asking if it right or wrong that employers ask employees not to reflect poorly upon the company in public forums? You srs?

 

[bucky]

A company needs to have control of what is being put out there.

A company doesn't need to have control over opinions and shouldn't.

Any good marketing/PR department will tell you that a company needs to have a unified message, no matter the topic. There is no room to hear dissenting opinions, as it makes the company look weak in the business world. If you have an opinion that is different, you do not share it with the public.

A company's unified message should be about what the quality of what the company produces and the quality of service it provides to the customers. Peoples personal opinions on opinion based social issues should have no place in a company's mission statement. If it does, then that company is taking it's personal beliefs outside of it's beliefs ethical boundaries and therefore being oppressive. And have we not learned by now that oppression is bad/wrong?

 

[bucky]

So we're clear, you are asking if it right or wrong that employers ask employees not to reflect poorly upon the company in public forums? You srs?

I'm asking what ethical right does a company have to oppress someone's opinion over opinion based issues? Basically what ethical right does a company have to be oppressive?

 

[Senser81]

I don't think fighting oppression with oppression is really a good answer.

I do. How else are you going to fight it?

 

[Senser81]

Agreed... it is in nearly every company hiring packet these days. I had to sign one as well. Many other them have amendments for social media as well and companies have fired people for their comments through social media avenues.

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VSN made you sign one?

 

[NAHSTE]

I'm asking what ethical right does a company have to oppress someone's opinion over opinion based issues? Basically what ethical right does a company have to be oppressive?

:dead:

It's fucking capitalism, free market bitch. You want to work for them, you adhere to their standards. They don't want employees expressing an opinion publicly which will reflect poorly on the company, because that could cause them to lose customers. Seems pretty fucking simple.

 

[Senser81]

A company's unified message should be about what the quality of what the company produces and the quality of service it provides to the customers. Peoples personal opinions on opinion based social issues should have no place in a company's mission statement. If it does, then that company is taking it's personal beliefs outside of it's beliefs ethical boundaries and therefore being oppressive. And have we not learned by now that oppression is bad/wrong?

Kind of a funny story from my company. They were looking to hire a person for a high-up VP position that would oversee one of our urban departments which employees numerous minorities. One of the "finalist candidates" had listed on her resume under affiliations a religious organization that was against gays and blacks, and we didn't continue the interview process once we found that out. Is what we did "oppressive"?

 

[Youk]

:dead:

It's fucking capitalism, free market bitch. You want to work for them, you adhere to their standards. They don't want employees expressing an opinion publicly which will reflect poorly on the company, because that could cause them to lose customers. Seems pretty fucking simple.

Exactly this. It is all PR. He is suspended for PR purposes. Does the suspension really hurt him? No, it's May. He isn't missing any playing time over this. It's a slap on the wrist to let him know that he cannot say things to make the team and the league look bad.

 

[bucky]

I do. How else are you going to fight it?

Back during civil rights you had to. The belief itself was in oppression. The belief was oppression was accepted and expected. I don't think that is the general case today. If you keep a reasonable person reasonable, I think they will always answer the following question the same way "Should our Govt be in the business of oppression?". I believe reasonable people will always answer that question "no". The job then becomes educating about what belief/opinion really is, the ethical boundaries of ones belief/opinion, and how legislating opinion/belief leads to oppression which we already established is wrong.

I don't want to minimize the struggle for gay rights, but I do believe it will be a much easier struggle than civil rights. I do see a lot of similarities between gay and civil rights but I really do see this one significant difference that I described above.

We are going to find a much more lasting resolution if we find common ground and build bridges than we are by attacking belief. In fact attacking belief is oppressive.

 

[bucky]

:dead:

It's fucking capitalism, free market bitch. You want to work for them, you adhere to their standards. They don't want employees expressing an opinion publicly which will reflect poorly on the company, because that could cause them to lose customers. Seems pretty fucking simple.

And still ethically wrong.

 

[Senser81]

And still ethically wrong.

Is it ethically right for a company to continue to employ/pay an employee who hates gays?

 

[bucky]

Kind of a funny story from my company. They were looking to hire a person for a high-up VP position that would oversee one of our urban departments which employees numerous minorities. One of the "finalist candidates" had listed on her resume under affiliations a religious organization that was against gays and blacks, and we didn't continue the interview process once we found that out. Is what we did "oppressive"?

Was she being oppressive/obscene or inappropriate in any way to anyone during the interview process? Any research into her past show she took her views/beliefs outside of her beliefs ethical boundaries and was actively oppressive to others? If you based it solely off of that one line in her resume, then Yes, it actually was oppressive. But the severity of the oppression is actually less than punishing an existing employee over personal opinion.

 

[buckeye]

VSN made you sign one?

Uh.. that's not gonna happen.

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[buckeye]

I'm asking what ethical right does a company have to oppress someone's opinion over opinion based issues? Basically what ethical right does a company have to be oppressive?

I get what you are saying but at the end of the day it isn't oppression. The company offered you (sic) a job and you CHOSE to work there. If you want to be able to start anti-gay or KKK rallies them of course it is your right but the company does not have to keep you employed as you are tarnishing their image.

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[bucky]

Is it ethically right for a company to continue to employ/pay an employee who hates gays?

Are they keeping there belief inside their beliefs ethical boundaries? Are their beliefs going outside of their beliefs ethical boundaries and therefor being oppressive to others? It's not the belief that's wrong. It's when people act on their beliefs, project their beliefs onto others and oppress others that it becomes wrong.

The world is full of different beliefs. Our own country is full of different beliefs. Belief is something unprovable, only supported by opinion or unprovable evidence. That makes them opinion based issues, and makes one sides belief no more right or wrong than the other sides belief (of the opinion based issues). Things become wrong when we take our belief outside of our beliefs ethical boundaries and end up oppressing others.

I find it sadly ironic that people are OK with oppression when it suites their cause/belief, but strongly against it when the oppression is against their belief.

 

[NAHSTE]

And still ethically wrong.

There is no ethics here, it's an employer/employee issue. Go tell your HR department you hate gays and see how it works out for you, ethically speaking.

You are presenting dumb "arguments" so I do believe this has run its course. Good day.

 

[bucky]

I get what you are saying but at the end of the day it isn't oppression. The company offered you (sic) a job and you CHOSE to work there. If you want to be able to start anti-gay or KKK rallies them of course it is your right but the company does not have to keep you employed as you are tarnishing their image.

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I didn't realize tweeting "horrible" was organizing a KKK rally. What we are talking about is stifling an OPINION.