Enough is enough. Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time.

[killgod]

so Brady wins because a kicker bails the team out on the last drive almost every superbowl and peyton gets the short stick b/c of all the games the worlds most unclutch kicker missed field goal after field goal

Im not saying brady didnt put the pats into position to win im just saying you cant say peytons team won him anything without mentioning the pats d which has always been good or great at times

What does Brady have to do with anything I've said?


All I said was, when discussing GOAT QB's, you will look at what (for example) Montana did in the season, playoffs, etc. But with Manning some will suggest to ignore the playoffs cause it's not important or a big deal blah blah ......(then again winning is the only thing that matters in sport).......


Lets ignore Wins then, fine. Lets just look at playoff games being "important games" (can we still do this?) and look at how Manning hasn't fared as well in them as he has in regular season games.

So Manning is the GOAT because he can whoop ass in the reg season but when GAMES BECOME MORE IMPORTANT HE'S ACTUALLY NOT PLAYED AS WELL?

Yeah, that's your GOAT QB alright.

Ignore wins, just focus on the fact that his playoff play has been worse than his regular season play. Playoff games are were GOAT's are supposed to bring their best, and Manning brings his B+ game while other GOAT candidates have done more.



I'm not saying he's not a great QB, I'm not saying he sucks (despite my wretched hatred for him), I'm just saying he's not the #1 of all time, because when he's supposed to elevate his game to GOAT levels, he typically hasn't.



Now you guys want to think I'm bringing in some Patriots-Brady angle because I'm a fan, yet I've not even mentioned anything related to that? Ok. Whatever. Sorry for sharing my fucking opinion, I guess Patriots fans aren't allowed to discuss football outside of Brady.

 

[jms493]

When he wins another Super Bowl he can be considered the greatest QB ever.

 

[FedEx227]

When you say, "you have arguments that other GOAT candidates are great because of the things they did in the season and playoffs, yet with Manning we ignore the playoffs because they aren't that big of a deal" you are trying to bring up the fact that Manning to begin his career didn't have a great playoff record, which implies trips to the SB and championships won. Lets not forget that you are a Pats fan who more than likely believes Brady is better, because he has won 3 SB.

Which is stupid because you can nitpick every single guy.

I can say, well what did Montana win when he was away from Jerry Rice? He never won anything.

Peyton is one of the best ever. It's sad that the media and fans alike either don't recognize it or don't care, he's not a sexy media target like Brady or Romo.

 

[JeremyHight]

Just a quick comparison...

Manning Regular Season to Postseason change in stats:
Completion % -3%
QB Rating -10.3
Interception % +0.3%
TD % -1.9%

Montana Regular Season to Postseason change in stats:
Completion % -.5%
QB Rating +3.3
Interception % +0.2%
TD % +1.1%

Montana had a slight dip in some areas, namely a slightly lower completion percentage and a higher interception percentage. But Manning dropped in everything and in some cases, by large amounts.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Tough to put him ahead of Montana...I can't do it.

If the world relied on a football game to save the human race from total annihilation against the Aliens...I wouldn't want Peyton Manning in his prime as my starting quarterback...I'd take Montana.

Manning has surpassed Super Dan as the greatest passer ever...he did that with a Super Bowl ring, however, when it comes to playoff time, 7-8 record and weak performances (7 picks in that Super Bowl run) leave him a bit shy of GOAT status.

Now, should he get another ring and be THE REASON for it...game changes...but now...no, not yet.

I'd say Top 5 right now...but I haven't compiled a list. To his discredit, he wasn't even the best big game quarterback of his generation...and that is where you can slight him.

 

[Senser81]

I can say, well what did Montana win when he was away from Jerry Rice? He never won anything.

Actually, Montana won two Super Bowls before Rice arrived.

Are you involved with the radio show with Lefty34?

 

[FedEx227]

Actually, Montana won two Super Bowls before Rice arrived.

Are you involved with the radio show with Lefty34?

Shit, you're right. :bolt: My bad... that's why you shouldn't VSN at work.

And yes I am.

My general point though is that people can nitpick whatever. (even if they are retarded and wrong, like me ) i still DO think Montana is the best ever, but there are a lot of real big Peyton haters for really no reason whatsoever. I also think when it's all done Peyton will be in the running for the best ever.

 

[Houston]

I didn't read any of this thread but he is the best ever.

 

[Esjay]

I'm surprised it took this long for an angry Patriots fan to come crying .. LOL

Peyton is the best I've ever seen play. I'm too young to remember Montana or anyone before 96 really. I Agree with W2B, If I'm building a team I take Peyton first.

 

[Bear Pand]

How come in a game where you always hear "defense wins championships"and "ultimate team sport" QBs get measured by how many rings they have?

 

[jeffx]

Your team is down by four at the two minute warning and you're starting at your own 20. Who do you want at QB?

Montana
Unitas
Elway
Marino
Staubach
Bradshaw
Brady
P.Manning
Favre

 

[Bear Pand]

Your team is down by four at the two minute warning and you're starting at your own 20. Who do you want at QB?

Montana
Unitas
Elway
Marino
Staubach
Bradshaw
Brady
P.Manning
Favre

how many times has Manning failed in a situation like this?

 

[Houston]

Brady is a whiny bitch, I'd tell him to his face but I'd probably get flagged for it.

 

[Archer]

Your team is down by four at the two minute warning and you're starting at your own 20. Who do you want at QB?

Montana
Unitas
Elway
Marino
Staubach
Bradshaw
Brady
P.Manning
Favre

Most of the above

 

[FedEx227]

How come in a game where you always hear "defense wins championships"and "ultimate team sport" QBs get measured by how many rings they have?

Who knows.

People like to do it in all sports, football the most... I really have no idea why.

Doug Williams > Dan Marino.

But seriously, I suppose people use it when guys are relatively close in skill level and career numbers. I don't know.

 

[Esjay]

I'm so tired of the rings/playoffs argument. First of all, the Colts teams for the past 12 years would have never made the playoffs without Manning. We almost always had one of the worst run defenses in the NFL, a huge flaw. Manning has overcome this numerous times, but against great teams in the playoffs you will eventually lose if the rest of the team is not up to par.

This guy is so good I am literally shocked when he throws an incompletion. As a Colts fan I've been so spoiled by him that I expect a score every possession. Touchdown. It's insane. None of the receivers would have been this good without Manning. Marvin would have been great no matter where he played obviously, but I think the rest would see a significant drop in their numbers. Manning makes everyone better on the team.

 

[Houston]

Manning makes everyone better on the team.

That's what I've been saying, put Tom Brady on a average team with a average O-line and he would do nothing.

 

[FedEx227]

The only sport where I really think the rings argument applies is the NBA, because you're 1 of 5 and superstars have the ball in their hands for a majority of the game.

Again, though... a guy like Jordan basically stopped a group of HoF players from even sniffing a ring (Malone, Stockton, Payton, Barkley, Miller) so....

I think it works in some ways in the NFL, but I don't think it should be a negative. if you have the numbers over a long period of time and some decent success, it should not matter if you have 1 SB ring or 4.

 

[killgod]

I'm so tired of the rings/playoffs argument. First of all, the Colts teams for the past 12 years would have never made the playoffs without Manning. We almost always had one of the worst run defenses in the NFL, a huge flaw. Manning has overcome this numerous times, but against great teams in the playoffs you will eventually lose if the rest of the team is not up to par.

This guy is so good I am literally shocked when he throws an incompletion. As a Colts fan I've been so spoiled by him that I expect a score every possession. Touchdown. It's insane. None of the receivers would have been this good without Manning. Marvin would have been great no matter where he played obviously, but I think the rest would see a significant drop in their numbers. Manning makes everyone better on the team.

How can you reasonably debate the topic at hand after gargling Mannings cock like you did just there?


Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, shit without Manning.

Worst run defences, the same run defence that dominated their way to a superbowl title.

Shocking to see this guy miss a pass.


GTFO.





Anyways,

Measuring QB's by rings isn't right. But completely ignoring their BIG GAME performance is wrong. Mannings play in BIG GAMES is not up to GOAT standards. Not matter how you slice it.

*awaits some dumb Indy homer to scream otherwise, then bring Brady into it because I'm a Pats fan despite me not even including him in this discussion because he doesn't deserve to be*

 

[FedEx227]

Anyways,

Measuring QB's by rings isn't right. But completely ignoring their BIG GAME performance is wrong. Mannings play in BIG GAMES is not up to GOAT standards. Not matter how you slice it.

*awaits some dumb Indy homer to scream otherwise, then bring Brady into it because I'm a Pats fan despite me not even including him in this discussion because he doesn't deserve to be*

I can dig that.

Luckily Peyton still has some more time to set his mark, so we'll have to wait and see but I definitely feel big games/playoff game results > rings.