Is Andy Reid The Most Overrated Coach?

[Len B]

I don't get why he still has a job in Philadelphia. This was mentioned elsewhere and it got me thinking about all the times I questioned why Reid still has a job. I'd like to think he's a players coach and the players like him, which is why he sticks around. As far as X's and O's, he might be one of the worst I've seen.

-Yesterday vs. a very strong pass D/bad run D of the Browns, he dials up 60 or so pass plays while allowing McCoy to run 20 times.

-In 2010, let's Kolb come back from a concussion.

-In 2009, the 3-1 Eagles are playing the 1-4 Raiders led by the wonderful Jamarcus Russell. Always a horrible run D, McNabb throws 22 for 46, gets sacked another 6 times, and Westbrook gets 6 carries for 50 yards.

-2009, gets in a shootout vs San Diego, throws 55 times to 6 runs and they lose the game. Most of these yards come when the Eagles fall behind 28-9, thanks in large part to failed heavy shotgun sets early in the first quarter. This is a game log of just the first quarter.

 

3rd and 4 at PHI 11 (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass short left to B.Celek to PHI 10 for -1 yards (K.Burnett).

1st and 10 at PHI 25 (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass short right to D.Jackson to PHI 31 for 6 yards (S.Gregory).
2nd and 4 at PHI 31 (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass incomplete short right to B.Celek.
3rd and 4 at PHI 31 (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass short left to R.Brown to 50 for 19 yards (S.Cooper).

2nd and 16 at PHI 44 D.McNabb pass incomplete deep middle to R.Brown.
3rd and 16 at PHI 44 (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass short right to D.Jackson to SD 48 for 8 yards (Q.Jammer).

2nd and 8 at PHI 38 (Shotgun) M.Vick pass incomplete deep middle to D.Jackson.
3rd and 8 at PHI 38 (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass incomplete deep left to R.Brown.

-In 2008 vs. the Bengals, the infamous McNabb doesn't know rules concerning ties game, McNabb threw 58 times in a game he was struggling in, while Westbrook ran just 14 times.

-In 2008 against the Redskins, McNabb passes 46 times while Westbrook carries 12 times.




Then I got to thinking about just how talented the teams he's had in Philadelphia have been during his tenure. If anything, I would say that Reid has done a great job in the front office always replenishing talent, specifically on the defensive end. They've always had an elite secondary, and brought in playmakers at various positions.

Would another coach have gotten them a Superbowl title with their roster, or do you think Reid has excelled as a coach over these years? I feel like he has immunity from being fired, but I'd argue he is the 4th best coach in the NFC East.

 

[Senser81]

Andy Reid...1-0

 

[Sharkweather]

Jeff Fisher.

 

[Len B]

Andy Reid...1-0

All he does is win. True enough.

 

[ram29jackson]

he is a quality coach who has done a damn good job...only 2 losing seasons and two 8-8 seasons since 1999

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ReidAn0.htm

 

[steeljake]

Jeff Fisher.

this.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

Reid rode some great defensive performances in the early 2000's and had McNabb and Westbrook on offense, not to mention Terrell Owens for a time.

In recent seasons, I don't think a coach has done less with more. Ever since Owens left, the Eagles have only increased the talent level across the board and Reid has brought forth an average team. From completely setting his defense back at the start of last season with Castillo as the DC to constantly being pass-happy on offense, Reid looks lost with his decision-making as well.

If we were looking at any other team, I think Reid would have been gone. Instead, Reid consolidated more power this off-season, forcing Joe Banner into a consulting role until he teamed with the Browns new ownership group. I have to agree with Reid being the most overrated coach in the league, and would definitely consider him as the 4th coach in the NFC East, or at the very least right there with Garrett.

 

[shag773]

Reid gets a lot of heat in Philly. Normally people from outside of Philly think our fans are nuts for wanting him out. Up until last year I was all for Reid being here, but I just think his act has grown old with the fans and the media. He comes off very smug and dismisses anyone who criticizes him.

On the plus side, I think his weekly prep is well done. Players seem to like playing for him. Throughout his career his defenses have always been good, although he has struggled to find a replacement for Jim Johnson. He has done a decent job the past few years of running an offense that suits his personnel. He's always used a lot of screens but he has had his QB's throw the ball down the field more. He seemed to get a lot out of AJ Feeley, Kevin Kolb, and an over the hill Jeff Garcia in 2006, which IMO was his best coaching job.

On the negative side, he has no clock management skills whatsoever. He puts a lot on the shoulders of his QB's, which was fine when his QB was the best player on the field. However, that has not been the case since 2003, and for some reason guys like Westbrook and McCoy tend to get lost in the playcalling when faced with even the slightest bit of trouble. He gets away from the run way too quickly. Until drafting Kendricks and signing Ryans this year, he's never addressed LBS early in the draft or in FA.

To answer your question, yes, he is overrated. He should of won a SB in 2002. He went to 5 NFC Championships, but only went to 1 SB and was favored in 4 of them. But in saying that, and this may be an indictment on the Eagles organization as a whole, but he is the 2nd best coach in that franchises' history next to Greasy Neale. As far as where he ranks in the NFC East, he's a better HC than Garrett. Even though Shanny won his SB's with Elway and TD, I think right now Reid's a better coach, although I think that is arguable.

 

[ram29jackson]

He comes off very smug and dismisses anyone who criticizes him.

who doesnt ? outside of another coach he doesnt need to hear anyone else

 

[ThomasTomasz]

Reid gets a lot of heat in Philly. Normally people from outside of Philly think our fans are nuts for wanting him out. Up until last year I was all for Reid being here, but I just think his act has grown old with the fans and the media. He comes off very smug and dismisses anyone who criticizes him.

On the plus side, I think his weekly prep is well done. Players seem to like playing for him. Throughout his career his defenses have always been good, although he has struggled to find a replacement for Jim Johnson. He has done a decent job the past few years of running an offense that suits his personnel. He's always used a lot of screens but he has had his QB's throw the ball down the field more. He seemed to get a lot out of AJ Feeley, Kevin Kolb, and an over the hill Jeff Garcia in 2006, which IMO was his best coaching job.

On the negative side, he has no clock management skills whatsoever. He puts a lot on the shoulders of his QB's, which was fine when his QB was the best player on the field. However, that has not been the case since 2003, and for some reason guys like Westbrook and McCoy tend to get lost in the playcalling when faced with even the slightest bit of trouble. He gets away from the run way too quickly. Until drafting Kendricks and signing Ryans this year, he's never addressed LBS early in the draft or in FA.

To answer your question, yes, he is overrated. He should of won a SB in 2002. He went to 5 NFC Championships, but only went to 1 SB and was favored in 4 of them. But in saying that, and this may be an indictment on the Eagles organization as a whole, but he is the 2nd best coach in that franchises' history next to Greasy Neale.

Nice to see that my views are in line with someone from Philly. I think this just proves that Reid is a pretty good head coach, but it's just time for both parties to move on.

 

[Blade]

What shag said.

 

[killgod]

Reid gets a lot of heat in Philly. Normally people from outside of Philly think our fans are nuts for wanting him out. Up until last year I was all for Reid being here, but I just think his act has grown old with the fans and the media. He comes off very smug and dismisses anyone who criticizes him.

On the plus side, I think his weekly prep is well done. Players seem to like playing for him. Throughout his career his defenses have always been good, although he has struggled to find a replacement for Jim Johnson. He has done a decent job the past few years of running an offense that suits his personnel. He's always used a lot of screens but he has had his QB's throw the ball down the field more. He seemed to get a lot out of AJ Feeley, Kevin Kolb, and an over the hill Jeff Garcia in 2006, which IMO was his best coaching job.

On the negative side, he has no clock management skills whatsoever. He puts a lot on the shoulders of his QB's, which was fine when his QB was the best player on the field. However, that has not been the case since 2003, and for some reason guys like Westbrook and McCoy tend to get lost in the playcalling when faced with even the slightest bit of trouble. He gets away from the run way too quickly. Until drafting Kendricks and signing Ryans this year, he's never addressed LBS early in the draft or in FA.

To answer your question, yes, he is overrated. He should of won a SB in 2002. He went to 5 NFC Championships, but only went to 1 SB and was favored in 4 of them. But in saying that, and this may be an indictment on the Eagles organization as a whole, but he is the 2nd best coach in that franchises' history next to Greasy Neale. As far as where he ranks in the NFC East, he's a better HC than Garrett. Even though Shanny won his SB's with Elway and TD, I think right now Reid's a better coach, although I think that is arguable.

Reid is very alike BB IMO.

Comes off as smug and dismisses criticism? Check.
Players like to play for him? Check.
Defenses have always been good? Check. (You can say last year's sucked, but lead in turnovers and made a Super Bowl..)
Lots of screens? Check.
Never addressed a position of need - LB? Check (WR)
Loves to pass? Check.
Gambles on 4th? Check.


IMO you want a coach that's like this running your club. Reid might be tired with the Eagles, but he's still the right kind of coach to have I think. BB could have just as easily lost all his Super Bowls or missed some of them. So many games on the roads these teams have taken are very close, coming down to single plays. Look at the 49ers last year, 2 plays by a rookie cost them the Super Bowl. That's not to knock Harbaugh, but that's the fine line between winning and losing at the elite level in the NFL.

 

[shag773]

Reid is very alike BB IMO.

Comes off as smug and dismisses criticism? Check.
Players like to play for him? Check.
Defenses have always been good? Check. (You can say last year's sucked, but lead in turnovers and made a Super Bowl..)
Lots of screens? Check.
Never addressed a position of need - LB? Check (WR)
Loves to pass? Check.
Gambles on 4th? Check.


IMO you want a coach that's like this running your club. Reid might be tired with the Eagles, but he's still the right kind of coach to have I think. BB could have just as easily lost all his Super Bowls or missed some of them. So many games on the roads these teams have taken are very close, coming down to single plays. Look at the 49ers last year, 2 plays by a rookie cost them the Super Bowl. That's not to knock Harbaugh, but that's the fine line between winning and losing at the elite level in the NFL.

I think BB does a better job of playing to the strength of his team. For example, look at 04 when they were 22nd in passing attempts, 5th in rushing attempts and went 14-2 w/ a SB win. Corey Dillon was a beast and BB utilized him. In the SB game that year, with Tom Brady, he threw the ball 33 times, ran it 28, and had 1 turnover with 0 INTs. The Eagles threw it 51 times, ran it 17, and had 4 INT's with 3 turnovers. And this was a tie game going into the 4th quarter. I don't see a fine line there, BB did a better job managing the game and has done so overall.

 

[killgod]

I think BB does a better job of playing to the strength of his team. For example, look at 04 when they were 22nd in passing attempts, 5th in rushing attempts and went 14-2 w/ a SB win. Corey Dillon was a beast and BB utilized him. In the SB game that year, with Tom Brady, he threw the ball 33 times, ran it 28, and had 1 turnover with 0 INTs. The Eagles threw it 51 times, ran it 17, and had 4 INT's with 3 turnovers. And this was a tie game going into the 4th quarter. I don't see a fine line there, BB did a better job managing the game and has done so overall.

The fine line remains that despite all that, the game result could have flipped on one play.

I'm not saying these guys are equal, no way in hell. Just that Reid does a bunch of things like BB has done. Seen plenty of success, just no titles. Of his 15 or whatever year tenure, I bet 70% of the league have accomplished much less. A new coach doesn't guarantee Philly anything.

 

[Aso]

No.

 

[shag773]

The fine line remains that despite all that, the game result could have flipped on one play.

I'm not saying these guys are equal, no way in hell. Just that Reid does a bunch of things like BB has done. Seen plenty of success, just no titles. Of his 15 or whatever year tenure, I bet 70% of the league have accomplished much less. A new coach doesn't guarantee Philly anything.

Im not trying to take anything away from the success he's had here. But you keep saying there's a fine line between winning and losing, and thats all well and good. But he's been here for 15 years. With the talent he's had here he should of at least won 1 SB. Are you saying we should just be happy to be watching winning football and not worry about a championship? That would be a tough sell in a city that is a football town, and has never seen a SB win or an NFL Championship in 52 years.

Does a coaching change guarantee that? Of course not. But at some point you have to show your fan base you want to win championships, and 15 years is a long time to be in one place without winning one.

 

[Maynard]

i think he is very over rated. his gameplan against cleveland was a joke. i couldnt believe he threw the ball 56 times. Mccoy was able to gain soild yards from the start, but yet Reid refused to adjust his pass happy offense even though vick was harassed all game and made bad decision after bad decision.

 

[shag773]

i think he is very over rated. his gameplan against cleveland was a joke. i couldnt believe he threw the ball 56 times. Mccoy was able to gain soild yards from the start, but yet Reid refused to adjust his pass happy offense even though vick was harassed all game and made bad decision after bad decision.

All the talk this year was about protecting Vick, getting him through a 16 game season, then in Game 1 he drops him back 60+ times!!! It's mind numbing..

 

[killgod]

Im not trying to take anything away from the success he's had here. But you keep saying there's a fine line between winning and losing, and thats all well and good. But he's been here for 15 years. With the talent he's had here he should of at least won 1 SB. Are you saying we should just be happy to be watching winning football and not worry about a championship? That would be a tough sell in a city that is a football town, and has never seen a SB win or an NFL Championship in 52 years.

Does a coaching change guarantee that? Of course not. But at some point you have to show your fan base you want to win championships, and 15 years is a long time to be in one place without winning one.

I disagree that he "should" have won. There's never just one great team, there's a bunch. Same goes for most sports in North America. Teams have strong runs but just don't have the pieces fall their way to win a title. It happens.

I'm not saying you should be happy without a title, but to keep perspective on how many chances you've had compared to many teams who haven't sniffed shit in decades.

What Reid gives you is stability. He has 2 losing records in 13 seasons. You'll miss that if it goes. In a sport that constantly pushes for parity, this type of continued play is likely envied by other fan bases. You'll appreciate it more once he's gone, especially if your next coach is a dud and you shit the bed for a few years.

 

[Senser81]

To answer your question, yes, he is overrated. He should of won a SB in 2002. He went to 5 NFC Championships, but only went to 1 SB and was favored in 4 of them. But in saying that, and this may be an indictment on the Eagles organization as a whole, but he is the 2nd best coach in that franchises' history next to Greasy Neale. As far as where he ranks in the NFC East, he's a better HC than Garrett. Even though Shanny won his SB's with Elway and TD, I think right now Reid's a better coach, although I think that is arguable.

Sure, the Eagles were favored in 4, but in retrospect the only game where they really had superior talent was the loss to Carolina. No way the Eagles should have won the SB in 2002...the Bucs killed them at home. McNabb was terrible. I would guess if the 2002 Bucs played the 2002 Eagles ten times, the Bucs would win 8. I guess my point is that the Eagles never really had a great enough team to win the Super Bowl. Reid has won consistently despite having two of the most overrated players in NFL history playing QB for him (McNabb & Vick).