Is Andy Reid The Most Overrated Coach?

[dave]

Just to clarify, what you quoted from me was in direct response to a post earlier about the success he had in spite of inferior talant and having Donovan McNabb at quarterback. I don't necessarily believe he had inferior talent nor do I think drafting McNabb was a mistake, I was just pointing out that Reid was respnsible for the personnel he coached.

Drafting McNabb is one of the smartest picks in the history of football. Everyone wanted them going after Ricky Williams. Instead, they picked a franchise QB who brought them to five conference championships. McNabb might not have been perfect, but if you were picking today and had a swami tell you your pick would do what McNabb did during his Eagles' career ... you instantly make that pick.

 

[Prodigal Son]

just a cute opion quote. It doesnt mean shit depending on each persons situation.

go ahead and get rid of Andy Reid..then The Eagles wont sniff a playoff game for another decade after that..and then what will the dumb fans say?

Yeah, what the fuck would Walsh know? He wins 3 Super Bowls, and leaves being remembered as a God. Where as Mike Shanahan ignores the advice, wins 2 Super Bowls, and is run out of town.

Leaving after 10 years isn't for the betterment of the team he's coaching. It's preserving a legacy, that helps his career. Instead he'll stick around Philly, and then proceed to get run out of town, being remembered as the coach who couldn't win. His next job is not near as well paid, and he's given an even shorter leash. Unable to turn around a shitty team, ends up getting fired again and can't find a job because he's seen as washed up. Maybe 3 years later, some team gets desperate enough to call him up to take over their abortion of a franchise.

 

[Aso]

Drafting McNabb is one of the smartest picks in the history of football. Everyone wanted them going after Ricky Williams. Instead, they picked a franchise QB who brought them to five conference championships. McNabb might not have been perfect, but if you were picking today and had a swami tell you your pick would do what McNabb did during his Eagles' career ... you instantly make that pick.

Smartest picks in the history of football?

You might as well have posted "IT WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST PICKS IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE EVER!!!!"

 

[Hasselbeck]

He won 12 games and made Brian Griese into a Pro Bowler.

Griese's best season as starter in Denver.. 2000 when he went 7-3. The team went 11-5 that year. That said it was also a team that had just won consecutive Super Bowls.. their talent pool wasn't quite depleted just yet.

He got fucked over by Darrent Williams getting killed and could never find a corner to pair with Bailey. He tried a bunch of guys but it just never worked out. Doesn't change the fact that he HAD a guy that he drafted and through no fault of his own lost him.

Fair enough point. Although I don't think Darrent Williams was the difference between Shanahan getting a Super Bowl in Denver and being fired.. but whatever.

Andy Reid hasn't won anything. Shanny has two rings and Elway didn't win anything without him in four prior trips.

This is where I laugh. Andy Reid has never had anything close to John Elway OR Terrell Davis. The one time Donovan McNabb finally got a weapon worth a crap, they narrowly lost in the Super Bowl. Elway needed a running game more than he needed Mike Shanahan. I don't think it was the other way around, especially considering the fact Elway took much lesser Bronco teams to the Super Bowl. Terrell Davis was the missing piece.

You mention Andy Reid never winning anything.. what the hell has Shanahan won since Elway retired? Less than Andy Reid actually.

He drafted TD and brought in McCaffery and Rod Smith for Elway to pass to.

He made no-name offensive lineman into every down lineman for the best rushing attack in the league.

Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary and Tatum Bell.... 1,000 yard backs in Denver, nobodies anywhere else.

Grouped them together because they're all related.

Sure. Credit Shanahan for the selection of Davis in the 6th round. I'll give you that.

However, the offense put in place.. notably Alex Gibbs and Gary Kubiak's offense.. made basically every running back a success. Terrell Davis (and later Portis) were probably the only running backs who would be bonafide stars anywhere else. I credit Gibbs and Kubiak more for this than I do Shanahan though, and it's no surprise you see Houston running backs having the same success Denver backs used to have in the late 90's and early 2000's. Meanwhile in Washington, their running game has been pretty awful so far.

He got Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis and even got the Skins to throw in a second rounder.

Taking advantage of Dan Sydner and Jerry Jones is not a whole lot to brag about. But yeah, that was a good trade for the Broncos.

Long story short. Shanahan is a decent coach, but completely overhyped for having John Elway and Terrell Davis carry the team to two Super Bowls IMO.

Hard to disagree with what ralaw said though. Your players make your coaching look a lot better sometimes. Bill Belichick was a crap coach before Tom Brady came around. Tony Dungy could never win before Peyton Manning. Now both guys are revered.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Andy Reid hasn't won anything.

Only in NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE lexicon do people toss around shit like this.

Reid has won a shit load of games, his division a million times, has been to a bunch of NFC Championship games, and led his team to a SB.

I can't stand the "Super Bowl or nothing" NFL mindset. He's won plenty. He's had a better career than several SB winning coaches.

 

[Glenbino]

Griese's best season as starter in Denver.. 2000 when he went 7-3. The team went 11-5 that year. That said it was also a team that had just won consecutive Super Bowls.. their talent pool wasn't quite depleted just yet.



Fair enough point. Although I don't think Darrent Williams was the difference between Shanahan getting a Super Bowl in Denver and being fired.. but whatever.



This is where I laugh. Andy Reid has never had anything close to John Elway OR Terrell Davis. The one time Donovan McNabb finally got a weapon worth a crap, they narrowly lost in the Super Bowl. Elway needed a running game more than he needed Mike Shanahan. I don't think it was the other way around, especially considering the fact Elway took much lesser Bronco teams to the Super Bowl. Terrell Davis was the missing piece.

You mention Andy Reid never winning anything.. what the hell has Shanahan won since Elway retired? Less than Andy Reid actually.



Grouped them together because they're all related.

Sure. Credit Shanahan for the selection of Davis in the 6th round. I'll give you that.

However, the offense put in place.. notably Alex Gibbs and Gary Kubiak's offense.. made basically every running back a success. Terrell Davis (and later Portis) were probably the only running backs who would be bonafide stars anywhere else. I credit Gibbs and Kubiak more for this than I do Shanahan though, and it's no surprise you see Houston running backs having the same success Denver backs used to have in the late 90's and early 2000's. Meanwhile in Washington, their running game has been pretty awful so far.


Taking advantage of Dan Sydner and Jerry Jones is not a whole lot to brag about. But yeah, that was a good trade for the Broncos.

Long story short. Shanahan is a decent coach, but completely overhyped for having John Elway and Terrell Davis carry the team to two Super Bowls IMO.

Hard to disagree with what ralaw said though. Your players make your coaching look a lot better sometimes. Bill Belichick was a crap coach before Tom Brady came around. Tony Dungy could never win before Peyton Manning. Now both guys are revered.

Maybe Shanahan had a lot more weapons on offense when he won the Super Bowl but he won it with Greg Robinson coaching his patchwork defense. Not to mention all of the bums that were brought in as DC subsequently.

Give him Jim Johnson and some of the guys like Jeremiah Trotter, Brian Dawkins and Troy Vincent in their prime and maybe we aren't seeing the Chargers and Colts run a track meet on us during the Griese/Cutler/Plummer era.

Reid got to a lot of NFC title games but the AFC was the better conference during the majority of the 2000s.

And the year Griese took over that Denver team was hardly the same squad. Shannon Sharpe, Steve Atwater, Darrien Gordon Harry Swayne, Ray Crockett, Glenn Cadrez, Maa Tanuvasa and Neil Smith all took off as FAs. Terrell Davis got injured. Tyrone Braxton, Mark Schlereth and Alfred Williams all retired.

There was a significant talent drain in Denver after the Elway era in large part because those were old teams that won those Super Bowls without much depth behind the front line and just a few young guys (Trevor Pryce, TD, John Mobley) that were going to be around for awhile. TD went down and it took Denver awhile to find a new QB and identity but for the most part we were always in competition under Shanny despite playing in a tough conference with a teams like New England, San Diego, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh and even the Chiefs while Priest Holmes was in town seemingly always on our schedule.

Donovan McNabb was better than Jake Plummer, Brian Griese or Jay Cutler when Shanny had him and Reid used to have the rock solid defense to cover up for his mistakes as an offensive play caller. If he was running out defenses like we were running out against the Colts while Plummer was the QB in 2005 he would have never sniffed a Super Bowl IMO.

 

[Glenbino]

Only in NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE lexicon do people toss around shit like this.

Reid has won a shit load of games, his division a million times, has been to a bunch of NFC Championship games, and led his team to a SB.

I can't stand the "Super Bowl or nothing" NFL mindset. He's won plenty. He's had a better career than several SB winning coaches.

What kind of banner do they hang exactly for NFC Championship Game appearances?

 

[Aso]

What kind of banner do they hang exactly for NFC Championship Game appearances?

Hey you still get a trophy for winning it.