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Jacobs: Romo Isn't That Good

Nukleopatra said:
Tony Romo will be one of the top 5 candidates for MVP in 2009.
Click to expand...

He's not young anymore, but he's only had 3 seasons of starting. I wouldn't be too surprised if he takes the next step. He could still jump up the QB ladder. I won't believe it until he stops faltering late in the season.

Nukleopatra said:
If I'm wrong, I'll leave VSN forever.
Click to expand...

There you go giving me another reason to root against Dallas!!!

Are we talking regular season top 5 in stats?
What stats? QB Rating?
Top 5 in MVP voting? NFL or NFC?

If Dallas falters and doesn't make the playoffs, or loses in the first round, does that take Toni out of the Top 5 MVP candidate?

Just trying to set the ground rules so things are nice and clear.
 
steeljake75 said:
lol... your a dopey bitch arent you? i guess i should have know with a name like ryan leaf, and whats worse is you had a choice and still used it...
Click to expand...

Relevance to the topic???


steeljake75 said:
romo cant win a big game, thats fact,
Click to expand...
I'm sorry...who is the "dopey bitch"? You are stating something as fact that can not even be stated as a fact. You can not measure what he can and can not do until his career is over. You are stating "romo cant win a big game," as fact. When in reality, the fact is he has not won a playoff game. That does not mean he can't. It just mean he has yet to do it.

steeljake75 said:
the nfl is full of elite atheletes, but only the best of tehbest will win, and only they can be called great
Click to expand...
See: Trent Dilfer. Football is the ultimate team sport.

steeljake75 said:
romo is not a great, he is an ok qb among a group of elite atheletes.
Click to expand...
I never said he was great. I never said he was elite. All I said was that it is tough to win in the NFL and that Romo is not overrated.

steeljake75 said:
would romo be a bad ass on a college team? yes.
Click to expand...
huh???

steeljake75 said:
but in the nfl romo is just your average cignal caller who chokes when it counts the most.
Click to expand...
So says the guy on the message board - a lot of prep and work goes into a game. Guys don't forget how to play. Like I said before, both teams - in a big game - are usually evenly matched and sometimes, they just have your number. As I also said before, Romo is not free from criticism. I just tend to think that Brandon Jacobs is off base in saying that he is overrated and not a good quarterback.

steeljake75 said:
guys like eli and ben both have succeeded at the highest level so when people say they are better than romo, this is not opinion, it is fact.
Click to expand...
Not sure where I said that Romo was better than either of these players...sooooo...not sure why you even made this point. In fact, most of your response to my post seemed to ignore anything relevant to what I stated as my opinion.

steeljake75 said:
are you the real ryan leaf? you sure cry like he does.
Click to expand...
I wasn't aware you knew Ryan...or that he cried. Even more amazing is that he cries just like me.


Basically all you have done in your post is show me how much of a fucking idiot you really are and why other VSN members think you are a dumb-fuck. I stopped getting into message board wars when MM was in its prime, but, I felt a responsibility to point out your poor logic and tired act. When you want to debate with the big boys be sure to come prepared douchebag.


:saythat:
 
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homo.jpg
 
Top 10 Quarterbacks

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Kurt Warner
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Philip Rivers
7. Jay Cutler
8. Eli Manning
9. Donovan McNabb
10. Carson Palmer

notice whos not on this list. hell he may not even be top 15, im sure i could find 5 more QBs i would rather have.

11. Matt Ryan
12. Chad Pennington
13. Brett Favre (Pending his return)
14. Matt Hasselbeck
15. Kerry Collins

okay so maybe the last few are pushing it a little but i still wouldnt mind having them on my team over romo. with any of these 15 quarterbacks, the cowboys are either the same or better.
 
G-Men72 said:
Top 10 Quarterbacks

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Kurt Warner
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Philip Rivers
7. Jay Cutler
8. Eli Manning
9. Donovan McNabb
10. Carson Palmer

notice whos not on this list. hell he may not even be top 15, im sure i could find 5 more QBs i would rather have.

11. Matt Ryan
12. Chad Pennington
13. Brett Favre (Pending his return)
14. Matt Hasselbeck
15. Kerry Collins

okay so maybe the last few are pushing it a little but i still wouldnt mind having them on my team over romo. with any of these 15 quarterbacks, the cowboys are either the same or better.
Click to expand...
Like I said, I get it.

He's the worst starting QB in the NFL.
 
G-Men, I hate Tony Romo as anyone here, but him behind Kerry Collins? He's twice as talented as the Titans quarterback.
 
bucky said:
He's not young anymore, but he's only had 3 seasons of starting. I wouldn't be too surprised if he takes the next step. He could still jump up the QB ladder. I won't believe it until he stops faltering late in the season.



There you go giving me another reason to root against Dallas!!!

Are we talking regular season top 5 in stats?
What stats? QB Rating?
Top 5 in MVP voting? NFL or NFC?

If Dallas falters and doesn't make the playoffs, or loses in the first round, does that take Toni out of the Top 5 MVP candidate?

Just trying to set the ground rules so things are nice and clear.
Click to expand...

Complicated shit.

If Drew Brees wins a playoff game, I'll leave VSN forever.
 
Mr T Xtreme said:
Romo's wins in big games:

1. 11/19/06 vs Indiapolis Colts
At the time, it was arguably the biggest win the Cowboys had this entire decade, and still might be. When the Cowboys knocked off previously-unbeaten Indianapolis, 21-14, at Texas Stadium, it ended the Colts' nine-game winning streak and also proved to be the Cowboys' only victory all season against a team with a winning record. For a team that won nine games, that's a bit shocking. But on that day, Tony Romo was just as good as Peyton Manning, if not a little better.

2. 11/4/07 at Philadelphia
Romo throws 3 touchdowns as the Cowboys rout their division rivals 38-17 on their home field. This victory ultimately led to Dallas winning the NFC East.

3. 11/16/08 at Washington
In his first game back from a 3 week absence due to injury, Romo struggled throughout this game as he played hurt. With Dallas' playoff hopes doubtful, the Cowboys desperately needed a victory. During the 4th quarter, down 10-7, Romo threw a perfect 25 yard strike to rookie TE Martellus Bennett to gain the lead, which they held onto for the win.

4. 12/14/09 vs NY Giants
One week after a heartbreaking loss to the Steelers, Dallas was in must win mode. The defense played excellently, sacking Eli Manning 8 times. Also, Romo's 2 TD passes didn't hurt either. This was the last victory at Texas Stadium for the Cowboys. The next two weeks would result in a meltdown on all fronts, not just at QB.



All in all, I consider these games to be important, you guys just look at 2 playoff games and the season finale at Philly and exclaim that Romo can never win a big game. This should give you some more reason to search for repetitive insults. I'm not saying he's an elite quarterback. I admit he is inconsistent, but he shows flashes of great play. He's only started like 39 games I believe. There is still ample time to win a playoff game. The team never has been great as you all suggest. They just never had great chemistry; thus, the Cowboys would fall apart every season. This year the Boys fixed their foundation by releasing problematic people like TO, pacman, tank, Brian Stewart (DC), Bruce Read (ST coord), and Greg Ellis. Hopefully, the Cowboys will benefit.
Click to expand...

i noticed not one of those games came in the post season. it is amazong how the cowboys fans can convince themselevs that tony homo is the real deal cuz JJ and the tuna both said he was. a big game is when you are up against the wall and the loser goes on vacationa nd the winner goes to practice next week. i almost piss myself laughing at the lengths dallas fans will go to to avoid saying they havent won a playoff game this century.

and this just wrecks all credibilty you had in the first place... " Tony Romo was just as good as Peyton Manning, if not a little better." tony homo couldnt carry the jock of the guy who carries the guy who carries peyton mannings jock. ever. in a million years.
 
Last edited:
G-Men72 said:
Top 10 Quarterbacks

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Kurt Warner
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Philip Rivers
7. Jay Cutler
8. Eli Manning
9. Donovan McNabb
10. Carson Palmer
Click to expand...

are you completely stupid or what? ben beat warner in the super bowl with less weapons. drew bress has NEVER even won a playoff game. maybe mitch was right, you might be a tard.
 
G-Men72 said:
Top 10 Quarterbacks

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Kurt Warner
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Philip Rivers
7. Jay Cutler
8. Eli Manning
9. Donovan McNabb
10. Carson Palmer

notice whos not on this list. hell he may not even be top 15, im sure i could find 5 more QBs i would rather have.

11. Matt Ryan
12. Chad Pennington
13. Brett Favre (Pending his return)
14. Matt Hasselbeck
15. Kerry Collins

okay so maybe the last few are pushing it a little but i still wouldnt mind having them on my team over romo. with any of these 15 quarterbacks, the cowboys are either the same or better.
Click to expand...

LOL... this list is a joke right? I hate Romo as much as the next guy, but to say he isnt a top 10/15 (15?!?!?! WTF) QB is pretty stupid.
 
I decided to do some further research after I verbally slammed SteelJake75 to see how the modern era quarterbacks currently in the HOF fared in the playoffs. The results are actually quite surprising. The best of the best are in the HOF in Canton and even they struggled at times. Barring some exceptions, a majority of the guys in the HOF were good to average in the playoffs.

Exceptions to the Rule (Exceptional playoff records/statistics):

Player|W's|L's|TD's|INT's
Joe Montana|16|7|45|21
Bart Starr|9|1|15|3
John Elway|14|8|27|21
Terry Bradshaw|14|4|30|26
Troy Aikman|11|5|23|17
Steve Young|12|8|20|13
Roger Staubach|12|7|24|19

The combined records for these men is 88-40 and the combined TD:INT ratio is a +64.

Best of the Rest:

Player|W's|L's|TD's|INT's
Len Dawson|5|3|7|8
Dan Fouts|3|4|12|16
Bob Griese|7|5|10|12
Jim Kelly|9|8|21|28
Johnny Unitas|6|3|7|10
Y.A. Tittle|0|5|4|14
Bob Waterfield|3|3|6|11
Dan Marino|8|10|32|24
Joe Namath|2|1|3|4
Warren Moon|3|7|17|14
Fran Tarkenton|6|5|11|17

The combined record for these HOF members is 52-54 and the combined TD:INT ratio is a -28.


I then took a sample of quarterbacks from the current generation of signal callers and also found some interesting numbers. First, I only found 3 quarterbacks that I felt had truly elite playoff numbers over their careers. The rest, including Romo were good to average in the playoffs.

Best of the Best:

Player|W's|L's|TD's|INT's
Tom Brady|14|3|26|12
Ben Roethlisberger|8|2|15|12
Kurt Warner|8|3|26|13

Roethlisberger's TD:INT ratio is not that impressive, but, he has an impressive W/L record which helps him into this group. Combined these players have a playoff record of 30-8 and a TD:INT ratio of +30.

The Rest:

Player|W's|L's|TD's|INT's
Peyton Manning|7|8|22|17
Philip Rivers|3|3|7|7
Donovan McNabb|9|6|23|16
Eli Manning|4|3|8|7
Tony Romo |0|2|2|1
Brett Favre|12|10|39|28
Jake Delhomme|5|3|12|10
Marc Bulger|1|2|4|5
Matt Hasselbeck|4|5|11|8

The quarterbacks above have a combined playoff record of 45-42. The combined TD:INT ratio is a +29. The W/L pct is nowhere near Brady, Roethlisberger and Warner, but, the +/- for the TD:INT ratio is very close. This is due to Roethlisberger's +3 TD:INT ratio.

Going through all the numbers, I found exactly what I stated earlier: It is tough to win in the NFL...especially in the playoffs and "big games." Both teams are, usually, evenly matched and only the best of the best find success on a consistent basis.

Fact is, we don't know if Romo "can't win big games" as SteelJake75 has claimed. We don't know it because his career is far from over and plenty of top-notch quarterbacks have lost their first couple of playoff games. Romo has had 2 playoff appearances. Peyton Manning lost his first 4 before recording a win. Brandon Jacobs and the rest of the "satisfy me now" community should give Romo, and other quarterbacks like him, more time before passing judgement.

Don't confuse the meaning of this post. My point is not to try and make Romo an elite quarterback. I didn't say that in my initial post. All I am saying is that he is not overrated and that he is a good quarterback. A lot of the guys listed as "elite" quarterbacks have had just as much trouble as Romo in the playoffs before experiencing success.

So, SteelJake75...how does my ass taste motherfucker?
 
RyanLeaf16 said:
I decided to do some further research after I verbally slammed SteelJake75 to see how the modern era quarterbacks currently in the HOF fared in the playoffs. The results are actually quite surprising. The best of the best are in the HOF in Canton and even they struggled at times. Barring some exceptions, a majority of the guys in the HOF were good to average in the playoffs.

Exceptions to the Rule (Exceptional playoff records/statistics):

Player|W's|L's|TD's|INT's
Joe Montana|16|7|45|21
Bart Starr|9|1|15|3
John Elway|14|8|27|21
Terry Bradshaw|14|4|30|26
Troy Aikman|11|5|23|17
Steve Young|12|8|20|13
Roger Staubach|12|7|24|19

The combined records for these men is 88-40 and the combined TD:INT ratio is a +64.

Best of the Rest:

Player|W's|L's|TD's|INT's
Len Dawson|5|3|7|8
Dan Fouts|3|4|12|16
Bob Griese|7|5|10|12
Jim Kelly|9|8|21|28
Johnny Unitas|6|3|7|10
Y.A. Tittle|0|5|4|14
Bob Waterfield|3|3|6|11
Dan Marino|8|10|32|24
Joe Namath|2|1|3|4
Warren Moon|3|7|17|14
Fran Tarkenton|6|5|11|17

The combined record for these HOF members is 52-54 and the combined TD:INT ratio is a -28.


I then took a sample of quarterbacks from the current generation of signal callers and also found some interesting numbers. First, I only found 3 quarterbacks that I felt had truly elite playoff numbers over their careers. The rest, including Romo were good to average in the playoffs.

Best of the Best:

Player|W's|L's|TD's|INT's
Tom Brady|14|3|26|12
Ben Roethlisberger|8|2|15|12
Kurt Warner|8|3|26|13

Roethlisberger's TD:INT ratio is not that impressive, but, he has an impressive W/L record which helps him into this group. Combined these players have a playoff record of 30-8 and a TD:INT ratio of +30.

The Rest:

Player|W's|L's|TD's|INT's
Peyton Manning|7|8|22|17
Philip Rivers|3|3|7|7
Donovan McNabb|9|6|23|16
Eli Manning|4|3|8|7
Tony Romo |0|2|2|1
Brett Favre|12|10|39|28
Jake Delhomme|5|3|12|10
Marc Bulger|1|2|4|5
Matt Hasselbeck|4|5|11|8

The quarterbacks above have a combined playoff record of 45-42. The combined TD:INT ratio is a +29. The W/L pct is nowhere near Brady, Roethlisberger and Warner, but, the +/- for the TD:INT ratio is very close. This is due to Roethlisberger's +3 TD:INT ratio.

Going through all the numbers, I found exactly what I stated earlier: It is tough to win in the NFL...especially in the playoffs and "big games." Both teams are, usually, evenly matched and only the best of the best find success on a consistent basis.

Fact is, we don't know if Romo "can't win big games" as SteelJake75 has claimed. We don't know it because his career is far from over and plenty of top-notch quarterbacks have lost their first couple of playoff games. Romo has had 2 playoff appearances. Peyton Manning lost his first 4 before recording a win. Brandon Jacobs and the rest of the "satisfy me now" community should give Romo, and other quarterbacks like him, more time before passing judgement.

Don't confuse the meaning of this post. My point is not to try and make Romo an elite quarterback. I didn't say that in my initial post. All I am saying is that he is not overrated and that he is a good quarterback. A lot of the guys listed as "elite" quarterbacks have had just as much trouble as Romo in the playoffs before experiencing success.

So, SteelJake75...how does my ass taste motherfucker?
Click to expand...




Yeah Im pretty sure Peyton took 4 trips to the playoffs before he finally won a game. Making the first half of his career lucky play by an average guy.


Also dont waste breath on Steeljake. Even with editing the guys spells shit like *it is amazong* *credibilty* *drew bress*

The guys only ability is to get pwned in NFL forums.
 
Im telling you , this whole Romo debate reminds me of the sort of threads people made about Peyton . Espically after our kicker opened his mouth about Peyton not being a leader . I heavily doubt Romo will be the player Peyton is 5-6years down the line but the point is that saying somebody "cant win the big game" after 3 years is retarded .
 
KINGOFOOTBALL said:
Yeah Im pretty sure Peyton took 4 trips to the playoffs before he finally won a game. Making the first half of his career lucky play by an average guy.


Also dont waste breath on Steeljake. Even with editing the guys spells shit like *it is amazong* *credibilty* *drew bress*

The guys only ability is to get pwned in NFL forums.
Click to expand...

Even then , as much as I love Peyton he played bad at the start of the playoffs when we won the superbowl . If not for our defense playing lightsout against the Chiefs and Ravens we would have been done in them playoffs . In all honesty Peyton didnt fully show up until the 2nd half of the Pats con champ game
 
steeljake75 said:
i noticed not one of those games came in the post season. it is amazong how the cowboys fans can convince themselevs that tony homo is the real deal cuz JJ and the tuna both said he was. a big game is when you are up against the wall and the loser goes on vacationa nd the winner goes to practice next week. i almost piss myself laughing at the lengths dallas fans will go to to avoid saying they havent won a playoff game this century.

and this just wrecks all credibilty you had in the first place... " Tony Romo was just as good as Peyton Manning, if not a little better." tony homo couldnt carry the jock of the guy who carries the guy who carries peyton mannings jock. ever. in a million years.
Click to expand...

Do you even read the quotes you respond to?

Good God, you're fucking dense.
 
G-Men72 said:
Top 10 Quarterbacks

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Kurt Warner
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Philip Rivers
7. Jay Cutler
8. Eli Manning
9. Donovan McNabb
10. Carson Palmer

notice whos not on this list. hell he may not even be top 15, im sure i could find 5 more QBs i would rather have.

11. Matt Ryan
12. Chad Pennington
13. Brett Favre (Pending his return)
14. Matt Hasselbeck
15. Kerry Collins

okay so maybe the last few are pushing it a little but i still wouldnt mind having them on my team over romo. with any of these 15 quarterbacks, the cowboys are either the same or better.
Click to expand...


Even w/ the Super Bowl victory, I have a hard time thinking of Eli Manning as a top 10 NFL QB. Besides the awesome 2008 Super Bowl run, he's far too inconsistent. I guess the playoff run is what he can do if he gets hot, but he played awful in the playoff losses to Carolina and Philly.
 
EmpireWF said:
Even w/ the Super Bowl victory, I have a hard time thinking of Eli Manning as a top 10 NFL QB. Besides the awesome 2008 Super Bowl run, he's far too inconsistent. I guess the playoff run is what he can do if he gets hot, but he played awful in the playoff losses to Carolina and Philly.
Click to expand...


Well alot of that has to do with that offense. Gilbrides offense relies on a ridiculous plethora of option routes by WRs. Outside of Toomer none of those Giants WRs are exactly laser precise or high on the AWR scale. Alot of his ugly passes come from WRs being indecisive or running inprecise routes.

Not making excuses for him but it wouldnt be the first time a QB has had accuracy issues in that offense. On the bright side like you mentioned when his offenses are hot they are really explosive.

Its going to be interesting to see how the flock of new guys adjust. They cant expect rookies to change there routes to coverages the way NYG does now. If they go a little more straight forward it could lead to an easier transition.
 
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