Mike Martz: Offensive Genius?

[Senser81]

Todd Collins w/ Martz = 6 completions to Bears, 4 completions to Panthers, 32 yards, sacked twice.

Shaun Hill w/o Martz = 227 yards, 3 TDs, 117 rating

Alex Smith w/o Martz = 309 yards, 3 TDs, 92 rating


Hmm....

 

[1ke]

El Oh El

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The fact Todd Collins started and NFL game this year, and remains on an NFL roster this morning, just furthers my year long theme that QB play is the worst it's been in decades.

The facination with the spread offense at lower levels allows guys like Collins to not only stick in the league years after their usefullness should be expired, but also allows them to see relevent action.

EDIT: The guy he played against, Jimmy Clausen, was nearly as bad, and he was one of the most highly touted QB's in recent years at the college level. That sums it up.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Todd Collis is epic levels of terrible. This guy couldnt even make the most basic of throws yesterday.

 

[Tailback U]

I almost called DirecTV to cancel NFL ticket yesterday because at one point I had Jake Delhomme, Jimmy Clausen, Todd Collins, Sam Bradford, Matt Schaub, Carson Palmer, and Matt Cassel on my TV.

Max Hall, Shaun Hill, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and David Garrard saved the day.

The NFL is shitty this year.

 

[Senser81]

Todd Collis is epic levels of terrible. This guy couldnt even make the most basic of throws yesterday.

Yeah, it was tough to watch. Did anyone see the Browns-Falcons game? Seneca Wallace got hurt, so Jake Delhomme comes into the game and single-handedly pisses it away. He couldn't even take a center snap and hand the ball to Peyton Hillis.

 

[mcstl25]

I always see the statistic that Martz led offenses score more points per game during his tenure than before and after. My question is, what happens to points against per game during the same period?

Everyone knows what they're going to get with Martz, more points, more excitement, more turnovers, more sacks. If turnovers and sacks are held to a minimum, Martz looks like a genius. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened. Not with the Lions, 49ers or late in his tenure with the Rams. He'll probably be fired again at the end of the year if the Bears miss the playoffs.

 

[Tailback U]

Josh McDaniels > Mike Martz

 

[jeffx]

I almost called DirecTV to cancel NFL ticket yesterday because at one point I had Jake Delhomme, Jimmy Clausen, Todd Collins, Sam Bradford, Matt Schaub, Carson Palmer, and Matt Cassel on my TV.

Max Hall, Shaun Hill, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and David Garrard saved the day.

The NFL is shitty this year.

I think W2B is right. Does anyone remember a year with so many shitty starting QBs?

And WTF happened to Carson Palmer?

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

And WTF happened to Carson Palmer?

He blew out his knee in a playoff game and has been a pussy ever since.

 

[Houston]

I still can't believe that these professional organizations can't find anyone else better to play the position.

 

[Hasselbeck]

And this is the reason Ryan Mallett, Jake Locker, etc will all be very high draft picks whether or not it's deserving.

This is a QB starved league. Plain and simple.

 

[Colonel Angus]

Mike McCarthy > Mike Martz

And I fucking hate Mike McCarthy

 

[NAHSTE]

I still can't believe that these professional organizations can't find anyone else better to play the position.

I can. There are way too many teams. Simple supply and demand.

The NFL fucking sucks. It's a boring and unimaginative product. Yay for mediocrity.

 

[ram29jackson]

his system/ ideas/Coryell imitations, are genius. the problem is getting the pieces to execute them.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

2006 Lions: 21st in total offense, 22nd points scored
2007 Lions: 19th in total offense, 16th points scored
2008 49ers: 23rd in total offense, 22nd points scored

Couple that with the fact that his recent offenses perennially lead the League in sacks and turnovers and I just have to say NO.

I really don't get the hype associated with this guy.

Your stats have ZERO context. Try this, taken from another thread:

Numbers next to teams are NFL ranks in points & yards. Martz coached offenses in bold.


1998 Rams - 24, 27 (3 wins)
1999 Rams - 1, 1
(Rams have not had a winning season since Martz left in 2005, many of those years with a roster full of the same players Martz had to work with - Holt, Bruce, Bulger, Jackson, Pace, etc)


2005 Lions - 28, 27 (254 points)
2006 Lions - 21, 22 (7th in NFL in passing, 305 points)
2007 Lions - 16, 19 (346 points, highest ranks over a 10 year period in either category, team goes 7-9, best record since 2001)
2008 Lions - 27, 30 (268 points, 0-16, worst team in NFL history)


2007 49ers - 32, 32 (219 points, one of the worst offenses in modern era football)
2008 49ers - 22, 23 (339 points, a 120 point swing, and possibly his best work yet)
2010 49ers - 31, 23 (arguably the worst offense in the league, Jimmy Raye fired Week 3)

What the Martz offense has always been is an offense that IMMEDIATELY improves the second he touches it, then IMMEDIATELY drops off the earth the second he leaves.

As you can clearly see, Martz inherited total shit everywhere he's been, and IMMEDIATLEY made drastic improvements each time. And everytime those teams let him go, they go directly back into the shitter.

Martz designed the only offense in NFL history to score 500 points three consecutive seasons. No other team has even accomplished that twice. And you cant come back with "well, he had 5 potential HOF players with the Rams...", because look at what he did with Detroit & SF, with AWFUL personel:

-Detroit has been the laughing stock of the NFL for a decade, and they not only had their two best offensive teams in recent memory under Martz, they also had their most successful season in 2007. Martz gets scapegoated by a desperate Rod Marinelli, gets fired, the offense goes into the tank, and the Lions go 0-16. Look at the difference in yards, and more importantly, points, from 2005 to 2007. And this is with a TERRIBLE OL, Jon Kitna, Shaun McDonald, Mike Furrey, and a bunch of bust first round WR's.

-The 2007 49ers, if you recall, had what many people feel is the worst offensive team of the SB era. Just atrocious. 2008 may have been Matz's best work, working with the likes of JT O'Sullivan & Shaun Hill playing QB, and an over the hill Isaac Bruce as the top WR.

Now he goes to Chicago, where again he comes into a situation where the OL is TERRIBLE, they have no viable WR's let alone a true #1 WR, and he has the offense playing at a much higher level than the year before with all of the same lousy parts. Yet here come the critics, blaming Martz dfor the sacks, as if the Bears were protecting the shit out of Cutler at any point last year, either.

So this is now team #3 since the Rams where Martz has taken over a shitball offense, and immediately made them better, and in all three cases, virtually no overhaul of the crappy personel from the year previous. And you don't "get" why he has a great reputation?

I'll debate Martz all day, but you gotta come stronger than out of context stats and the smae old sorry ass cliches.

 

[for surtain 22]

great post, but it's time to give Shaun Hill some respect. How does this guy not have a starting job somewhere? Id take him on the fins in a second.

 

[mcstl25]

Your stats have ZERO context. Try this, taken from another thread:




As you can clearly see, Martz inherited total shit everywhere he's been, and IMMEDIATLEY made drastic improvements each time. And everytime those teams let him go, they go directly back into the shitter.

Martz designed the only offense in NFL history to score 500 points three consecutive seasons. No other team has even accomplished that twice. And you cant come back with "well, he had 5 potential HOF players with the Rams...", because look at what he did with Detroit & SF, with AWFUL personel:

-Detroit has been the laughing stock of the NFL for a decade, and they not only had their two best offensive teams in recent memory under Martz, they also had their most successful season in 2007. Martz gets scapegoated by a desperate Rod Marinelli, gets fired, the offense goes into the tank, and the Lions go 0-16. Look at the difference in yards, and more importantly, points, from 2005 to 2007. And this is with a TERRIBLE OL, Jon Kitna, Shaun McDonald, Mike Furrey, and a bunch of bust first round WR's.

-The 2007 49ers, if you recall, had what many people feel is the worst offensive team of the SB era. Just atrocious. 2008 may have been Matz's best work, working with the likes of JT O'Sullivan & Shaun Hill playing QB, and an over the hill Isaac Bruce as the top WR.

Now he goes to Chicago, where again he comes into a situation where the OL is TERRIBLE, they have no viable WR's let alone a true #1 WR, and he has the offense playing at a much higher level than the year before with all of the same lousy parts. Yet here come the critics, blaming Martz dfor the sacks, as if the Bears were protecting the shit out of Cutler at any point last year, either.

So this is now team #3 since the Rams where Martz has taken over a shitball offense, and immediately made them better, and in all three cases, virtually no overhaul of the crappy personel from the year previous. And you don't "get" why he has a great reputation?

I'll debate Martz all day, but you gotta come stronger than out of context stats and the smae old sorry ass cliches.

You talk about improved offensive statistics and points per game all day long, but always leave out turnover, sack, time of possession and points against statistics. Who cares if a team averages 10 more points per game if the opposing team is scoring just as much on average due to the increased turnovers, increased sacks and decreased time of possession?

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Theres only a few guys that I really feel truly know there shit as O or D coaches.
Martz is one of them. I dont agree with his philosophy but theres a reason teams are lining up 4-5 wides and trying to pass every down. I can assure you its not Kevin Gilbride.

In HIS system..called properly you dont have to establish the run early. Much like Walsh WCO offense so long as your getting the ball into the RB hands on a consistent basis the running game will take care of itself. Love what hes doing with Forte.

I do however feel long term it suits Martz to be checked by a HC and runs to be called when Martz gets too giddy. Otherwise hes just a slimmer andy reid.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

You talk about improved offensive statistics and points per game all day long, but always leave out turnover, sack, time of possession and points against statistics. Who cares if a team averages 10 more points per game if the opposing team is scoring just as much on average due to the increased turnovers, increased sacks and decreased time of possession?

Um, because that's the OC's job? Move the ball and score points. Blaming Martz for bad defense, now i've seen it all. Was he in on 9/11 too? But ok, i'll play along:

Point differential/points against. Again, Martz years in bold:

2006 Lions: -93/398
2007 Lions: -98/444
2008 Lions: -249/517
2009 Lions: -232/ 494

So the Lions fired Martz, the defense got worse, and the scoring differential got WAAYY worse (obviously, because Martz = more scoring...you know, the thing he's paid to do). So much for running the ball to control the clock and keep the other team off the field, which was the reason the Lions canned him. Didn't work out. Seems they were better off throwing it all over the place and SCORING POINTS.

2007 49ers: -145/364
2008 49ers: -42/381

This one is even better. The 49ers defense gave up slightly more than 1 point per game, yet Martz turned the worst offense in modern era football around to the tune of 100+ points. while cutting the scoring differential by over 100 points as a result. Again, explain how he hurts the defense?

As for tunrovers, the 2007 49ers had 34, while the Martz 2008 49ers had...wait for it...35. Martz performed minor miracles with San Fran. How's Singletary doing these days, BTW?

And these are the bad Martz teams. I could post the Greatest Show numbers, which make these points look even worse.

It's all cliches, man. SCORE POINTS. That's all that matters. I'll trade TO's and sacks for 30 points all day long.