NBA Random Thoughts

[FirstTimer]

I think it's a horseshit premise so I took people to task for it.

Disagree to a certain extent. Boozer sucks on defense as a result of being lazy and clearly not giving two shits. Korver sucks because he doesn't have the needed tools. IMO it's much easier to "forgive" a guy who is trying to do the right thing but doesn't have what it takes to pull it off rather than "forgive" the guy with more natural ability who could be better but just doesn't care to be.

The end result is the same ie "suckiness" but realistically fans, coaches, players, etc are always quicker to tolerate effort over non effort even if the result is the same.

 

[FedEx227]

Whose to say Boozer doesn't have the needed tools?

This whole arguments that Charles Barkley eluded to many times. Not sure if it's apt here but he always hated the idea that black athletes were always seen as "not living up to their potential" as if they have some certain standard that they should all reach as peak athletes. As you mentioned the idea of "natural ability"

Whereas white athletes can always seem to maximize their "potential" and if they aren't great at something it's because they physically aren't good enough. They don't have "natural ability" but can maximize on those so everything they do is seen as a plus and everything a black athlete does negatively is seen as either being lazy or not tapping into that natural ability.

Boozer has always sucked at defense, Korver has always sucked.

I don't get what tools are really necessary?

Korver has god awful footwork which leads to horrible lateral movement. He doesn't anticipate screens and gets caught behind them. That's nothing he shouldn't have learned throughout his years of playing ball. I'm not asking him to shut guys down like the LeBron or Dengs of the world, it's simple stuff. I wouldn't exactly call myself great athletic but I have good footwork on defense because it's how I learned to play and practiced. Offensively I stand around the three-point line, midrange, set screens, etc. because I don't have explosiveness and I'm not that quick. Defense though doesn't require a ton of natural tools to be servicable, it's about anticipation, footwork and awareness.

Boozer is undersized too and relatively slow. He also has poor footwork and doesn't anticipate passes all that well.

I don't think it's really lazy and if you want to go with that angle then I feel it's fair to call Korver lazy as well. It's a part of his craft that he's neglected to get better at regardless of his physical ability. The same could be said for Boozer too. I just don't like the Boozer sucks at defense = lazy / Korver sucks at defense = well c'mon he's trying!

 

[FirstTimer]

Whose to say Boozer doesn't have the needed tools?

He's black.?

This whole arguments that Charles Barkley eluded to many times. Not sure if it's apt here but he always hated the idea that black athletes were always seen as "not living up to their potential" as if they have some certain standard that they should all reach as peak athletes. As you mentioned the idea of "natural ability"

I've seen Booz play offense enough to know he has the needed foot speed, foot work, strength etc and IQ to play defense in the NBA. I don't think he could be an All defensive type player but he'd at least be able to elevate his defensvie game from "abhorantly bad" to "doesn't make me scream at him/blends in"

Korver has god awful footwork which leads to horrible lateral movement. He doesn't anticipate screens and gets caught behind them. That's nothing he shouldn't have learned throughout his years of playing ball.

His foot speed sucks as well. Not just fundamentally of working around screens but in general quickness and lateral agility.

Boozer is undersized too and relatively slow. He also has poor footwork and doesn't anticipate passes all that well. I don't think it's really lazy and if you want to go with that angle then I feel it's fair to call Korver lazy as well.

Boozer has pretty damn good footwork on the offensive end. He just doesn't seem to give a shit about learning it on the defensive end.

Korver's foot speed sucks so bad anyways even if he learned the proper footwork/technique...........he'd still be worthless on D.

 

[FedEx227]

He's black.?

That's all I needed to hear.

Thanks.

 

[FedEx227]

About Smith? Sure. The rest of the league, ehh...

You were saying?

He also got a foul call on that as well. So that's kind of why guys don't do it. Look like a fool and give up a 3 point play.

 

[ralaw]

He's black.?

:jay:
Boozer sucks on defense = he's apathetic and lazy
Korver sucks on defense = he's trying

 

[FirstTimer]

That's all I needed to hear.

Thanks.

I was being sarcastic but :kanye:

 

[FirstTimer]

jay:
Boozer sucks on defense = he's apathetic and lazy

He is.

Korver sucks on defense = he's trying

He is.

But he still sucks.

I'm also of the thought that Deng isn't that great of a defender he just happens to have really good length. Dengs, foot speed blows in relative terms to how great of a defender some people think he is. I've watched, played, and coached enough basketball to tell the difference between a guy who works hard and who doesn't. Deng has some decent physical tools and IMO works his ass off on defense to make himself a respectable/+ defender.

Boozer has some tools as well but just doesn't seemingly care to work. Things like help side defense etc that Boozer is awful at that are really nothing more than effort/"want to" type plays/scenarios he's just shitty at and it's not that he's getting there late...he's not trying to get there at all.

 

[ralaw]

I agree with you....Boozer has never shown the desire to even be an average defender. Which, is why I'm not sure why Chicago fans expect him to become one.

 

[FirstTimer]

I agree with you....Boozer has never shown the desire to even be an average defender. Which, is why I'm not sure why Chicago fans expect him to become one.

I never expected him to be but Chicago fans can be dumb as well. However Boozer got a max deal so think there were some expectations that between the contract and Thibs Boozer would at least learn to be somehwat tolerable on defense. I kind of laughed at that as Boozer has always seemed to be a guy who was about the money and really not much else.

His skills are already eroding. The last 2-3 years of this contract will be terrible IMO.

I hated the signing to begin with.

 

[FedEx227]

He is.


He is.

But he still sucks.

I'm also of the thought that Deng isn't that great of a defender he just happens to have really good length. Dengs, foot speed blows in relative terms to how great of a defender some people think he is. I've watched, played, and coached enough basketball to tell the difference between a guy who works hard and who doesn't. Deng has some decent physical tools and IMO works his ass off on defense to make himself a respectable/+ defender.

Boozer has some tools as well but just doesn't seemingly care to work. Things like help side defense etc that Boozer is awful at that are really nothing more than effort/"want to" type plays/scenarios he's just shitty at and it's not that he's getting there late...he's not trying to get there at all.

Then again, couldn't Korver maximize his ability and actually work to get better (see: not blow assignments or don't let Mike Miller destroy you on a backdoor constantly) at a pretty important aspect of basketball?

 

[FedEx227]

I was being sarcastic but :kanye:

You may have been but don't think people (dumb Bulls fans) are thinking that.

 

[FirstTimer]

Then again, couldn't Korver maximize his ability and actually work to get better (see: not blow assignments or don't let Mike Miller destroy you on a backdoor constantly) at a pretty important aspect of basketball?

Scary thought....Korver doesn't have the footspeed to keep up with Mike Miller.

Yeah Korver might be able to "max out" some more on defense in some aspects but I truly believe we are about at the max of what Korver is on defense. Boozer I don't feel the same way at all.

 

[FedEx227]

I agree with you....Boozer has never shown the desire to even be an average defender. Which, is why I'm not sure why Chicago fans expect him to become one.

It's totally a combination of desire and skills. I'm not saying Boozer is good at defense, he's fucking awful.

I just don't see how Korver is "trying really hard", all that matters to me is he still has shitty footwork and sucks at defense. Nobody can really point to anything to show how he's trying hard.

At the end of the day it's really just a nitpicky argument by me to try and get to the general point that they both suck at defense.

 

[FedEx227]

Scary thought....Korver doesn't have the footspeed to keep up with Mike Miller.

Yeah Korver might be able to "max out" some more on defense in some aspects but I truly believe we are about at the max of what Korver is on defense. Boozer I don't feel the same way at all.

See I don't know that though. I've been watching Boozer for 10+ years and he's kind of always looked like this. I'm not ready to say there's some untapped physical potential he's not meeting. Maybe there is. All I know is he's awful at defense and slow to react. I don't think it's fair to 100% attribute it to lazyness... perhaps he didn't work on his defense game or he just doesn't care. I don't know. All I know is in the time watching him he's always kind of looking like this on offense so maybe he doesn't have the ability to get any better at defense. I'm not in his mind, so I can't tell you.

When you get down to it, he sucks at defense regardless of the reasons.

 

[FirstTimer]

See I don't know that though. I've been watching Boozer for 10+ years and he's kind of always looked like this.

And he's kind of always been lazy on defense.

What's your point?

I don't think it's fair to 100% attribute it to lazyness...

I do.

he just doesn't care.

Him not working/not caring...both signs of laziness.

Dude's awful.

AC him already.

 

[ralaw]

It's totally a combination of desire and skills. I'm not saying Boozer is good at defense, he's fucking awful.

I just don't see how Korver is "trying really hard", all that matters to me is he still has shitty footwork and sucks at defense. Nobody can really point to anything to show how he's trying hard.

At the end of the day it's really just a nitpicky argument by me to try and get to the general point that they both suck at defense.

I see both as not caring. Defense is about effort. These guys are in the NBA and while athleticism varies Korver still should be able to get in position to prevent Mike Miller from scoring. I can see if it was Wade or LeBron James, but its Mike Miller....he isn't exactly beating people with speed and explosion.

 

[FedEx227]

Bingo.

 

[FirstTimer]

I see both as not caring. Defense is about effort. These guys are in the NBA and while athleticism varies Korver still should be able to get in position to prevent Mike Miller from scoring. I can see if it was Wade or LeBron James, but its Mike Miller....he isn't exactly beating people with speed and explosion.

On the flip side I see Korver doing little things liek trying to get and getting to help side. Getting some loose balls etc. Stuff Boozer never really does or tries to do.

 

[FirstTimer]

I need to quit discussing this on my lunch though.

The thought of either of them playing defense makes me sick.