Official Washington Redskins Forum Thread

[MmmmBeeeeer]

You've got to give him time to get the team he wants put together.

That is fair, but now the more I think about it, is there any quarterback coming up in the draft that would be better than who the Redskins have now?

 

[Slateman]

Let's be honest though, Kirk was never that good. I wouldn't put the whole RG3 dibacle on Gruden either. I'm gonna give the guy more than one year before I make any decision on my opinion of him as a coach.

No, of course it's not totally on Gruden. But he was brought here to work with Griffin. To coach him up. And he bailed on Griffin six games in. From all reports, there is no coaching going on. I'd get if they realized how poor he was and Gruden went to Allen and Snyder and was like, "Okay, he's a lot worse than I thought he was. He needs a lot of work. Between injuries and no real developmental base, it's going to be a lot of work." Then you work with him in practice. Deactivate him totally. His job is every day is to work on being a pocket passer. Work on studying film like he's going to be the starter. Put him up in the booth for a half and let him see how things develop. Then, in the last couple weeks of the season, give him some playing time. Doesn't have to be a whole game. Just a few series at a time. Treat it like an extended practice.

But Gruden didn't do this. He decided that he didn't like the attitude and tried to pretend that winning actually matter this season. It doesn't. And it highlights the major problem with this team. The inability to have a long term plan to get better. It's always a short term fix. Firing Shotty and going on the signing binge of 2001. Signing the Ball Coach. Bringing back Gibbs and trading away draft picks for players. Trading for McNabb. Trading the house for Griffin. I thought this offseason might be different. They started off with some non-superstar signings in Roberts and Lavuerno. They franchised Orakpo instead of signing him to a long term deal. They didn't rush out and spend big money on a safety or ILB. But no, it was not meant to be, as soon as DJax was available, Snyder couldn't stay away. They courted him and he signed. 8 million down the drain.

I can't figure out if it's simply because no one wants to tell the emperor he has no clothes, or that the team simply can't evaluate itself properly. They suck at a bunch of other things, so it wouldn't surprise me. The PR department is awful. The rumor control is non-existant. The beer is out of date and stale. The food is shit. It's stupidly expensive. Security sucks at their job. So why would the product on the field be any different?

And that's probably what irks me about all of this the most. Gruden has to see that the team has a shit ton of holes. It's not the QB play that is holding the team back. There are giant holes in the offensive line (as in, everyone standing to the right of Trent Williams shouldn't be starting on a competent offensive line). The safety play has been the worst I've ever seen in Washington. I mean, I'm wishing for David Terrell and Ifeanyi Ohalete. The pass rush is less than stellar and it's obvious that ignoring the nose tackle position (which, BTW, is probably the most important fucking position in the 3-4) is hurting this defense. Oh and Special Teams still blows monkey balls.

But Gruden tried to pretend like if he got decent QB play, it would be fine. And it hasn't been. In fact, it's been shit. His team has given up. But more importantly, he's lost any chance of getting Griffin or Cousins to work for him. They clearly do not give a fuck about him and the only reason Colt McCoy gives a shit is because he knows that he doesn't have any more options. Instead of trying to win one more game this season, Gruden should have acknowledged the problems of the team and started a program to evaluate them and improve them over the course of this season AND next season. Lose with purpose. Don't mail it in, but don't act like you're going to be a playoff team. Accept that this team will struggle while it attempts to undo a decade of damage done by Vinny Cerato and Bruce Allen. Accept that this team needs to build itself through the draft and young free agents, not flashy guys who aren't going to be here when this team is going to be good.

Even if you didn't think Griffin was the long term solution, Gruden still owed it to the team (and Allen and Snyder) to do his best to make him an NFL QB. This team has absolutely no business drafting a QB in the 2015 draft. None. Any QB drafted will come in and get his teeth kicked in. With that in mind, Griffin would have been fine in 2015 as well. Maybe he becomes the QB you need. Maybe he doesn't. But he was someone that was available and relatively cheap. Build up an offensive line and give him every opportunity to succeed. Instead, it feels like Gruden has gone out of his way to make it easy for Griffin to fail.

 

[Argath]

No, of course it's not totally on Gruden. But he was brought here to work with Griffin. To coach him up. And he bailed on Griffin six games in. From all reports, there is no coaching going on. I'd get if they realized how poor he was and Gruden went to Allen and Snyder and was like, "Okay, he's a lot worse than I thought he was. He needs a lot of work. Between injuries and no real developmental base, it's going to be a lot of work." Then you work with him in practice. Deactivate him totally. His job is every day is to work on being a pocket passer. Work on studying film like he's going to be the starter. Put him up in the booth for a half and let him see how things develop. Then, in the last couple weeks of the season, give him some playing time. Doesn't have to be a whole game. Just a few series at a time. Treat it like an extended practice.

But Gruden didn't do this. He decided that he didn't like the attitude and tried to pretend that winning actually matter this season. It doesn't. And it highlights the major problem with this team. The inability to have a long term plan to get better. It's always a short term fix. Firing Shotty and going on the signing binge of 2001. Signing the Ball Coach. Bringing back Gibbs and trading away draft picks for players. Trading for McNabb. Trading the house for Griffin. I thought this offseason might be different. They started off with some non-superstar signings in Roberts and Lavuerno. They franchised Orakpo instead of signing him to a long term deal. They didn't rush out and spend big money on a safety or ILB. But no, it was not meant to be, as soon as DJax was available, Snyder couldn't stay away. They courted him and he signed. 8 million down the drain.

I can't figure out if it's simply because no one wants to tell the emperor he has no clothes, or that the team simply can't evaluate itself properly. They suck at a bunch of other things, so it wouldn't surprise me. The PR department is awful. The rumor control is non-existant. The beer is out of date and stale. The food is shit. It's stupidly expensive. Security sucks at their job. So why would the product on the field be any different?

And that's probably what irks me about all of this the most. Gruden has to see that the team has a shit ton of holes. It's not the QB play that is holding the team back. There are giant holes in the offensive line (as in, everyone standing to the right of Trent Williams shouldn't be starting on a competent offensive line). The safety play has been the worst I've ever seen in Washington. I mean, I'm wishing for David Terrell and Ifeanyi Ohalete. The pass rush is less than stellar and it's obvious that ignoring the nose tackle position (which, BTW, is probably the most important fucking position in the 3-4) is hurting this defense. Oh and Special Teams still blows monkey balls.

But Gruden tried to pretend like if he got decent QB play, it would be fine. And it hasn't been. In fact, it's been shit. His team has given up. But more importantly, he's lost any chance of getting Griffin or Cousins to work for him. They clearly do not give a fuck about him and the only reason Colt McCoy gives a shit is because he knows that he doesn't have any more options. Instead of trying to win one more game this season, Gruden should have acknowledged the problems of the team and started a program to evaluate them and improve them over the course of this season AND next season. Lose with purpose. Don't mail it in, but don't act like you're going to be a playoff team. Accept that this team will struggle while it attempts to undo a decade of damage done by Vinny Cerato and Bruce Allen. Accept that this team needs to build itself through the draft and young free agents, not flashy guys who aren't going to be here when this team is going to be good.

Even if you didn't think Griffin was the long term solution, Gruden still owed it to the team (and Allen and Snyder) to do his best to make him an NFL QB. This team has absolutely no business drafting a QB in the 2015 draft. None. Any QB drafted will come in and get his teeth kicked in. With that in mind, Griffin would have been fine in 2015 as well. Maybe he becomes the QB you need. Maybe he doesn't. But he was someone that was available and relatively cheap. Build up an offensive line and give him every opportunity to succeed. Instead, it feels like Gruden has gone out of his way to make it easy for Griffin to fail.

I agree with all of these points you've made. Every single one. However I think some of the issue with Gruden can be chalked up to an over anxious rookie head coach. Let's be honest though, deactivating RG3 would've been a media shit storm. I like the ideas you provided though. This offseason is definitely going to be an interesting one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

Official Washington Redskins Forum Thread

bring Harbaugh or Rex Ryan in - fire Gruden
:MFer2:



they had there hands tied for several years until last year with that 2-yr $19mil cap penalty enforced by the NFL.
bad timing to bring in a Star Rookie.

next season; we will have more cap space......i thinking and hoping they will be smart where they place that money.
as in so long Rak; unless you willing to a HUUUUGGEEE pay cut.

maybe trade to get more 2nd/3rd round picks.....that where the talent seems to be anyway.
most 1st rounds dont turn out to be what they need to be

 

[Slateman]

I agree with all of these points you've made. Every single one. However I think some of the issue with Gruden can be chalked up to an over anxious rookie head coach. Let's be honest though, deactivating RG3 would've been a media shit storm. I like the ideas you provided though. This offseason is definitely going to be an interesting one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

After his ankle injury and with his horrid play, maybe not. It's all about how the message is worded to the media. But that would involve PR, and Tony Wyllie is utter shit at his job, so that was that.

If Gruden had said, "Hey, he doesn't look right back there, we rushed him back too soon, we're going to pull him back, work with him, and get him back at the end of the season," no one would have made much of it.

 

[Slateman]

Griffin in at QB

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/robert-griffin-redskins-return-giants

that was an RGIII TD that they called a FMB instead.........

even though; i wanted to lose for a higher draft pick, i dont want to lose on BS calls.
i turned game off after that play, since i knew that was going to be a back breaker;

 

[Slateman]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/robert-griffin-redskins-return-giants

that was an RGIII TD that they called a FMB instead.........

even though; i wanted to lose for a higher draft pick, i dont want to lose on BS calls.
i turned game off after that play, since i knew that was going to be a back breaker;

It was the right call, per the rules. I think the rule is stupid, but whatever. It was the correct call.

Griffin looked improved yesterday, but not by a whole lot. He still can't find open receivers and he still hangs on to the ball too much. But he did show improvement, and, should start the rest of the way.

Redskins coaching staff and management need to put together a detailed plan for Griffin's offseason. Work on being a pocket passer. Work on preparing for games. Work on studying film. Work on fundamentals. Spend the offseason building the offensive line. I mean a real committment. Like, your first and second round picks go to it.

Actually, what I would like to see trading DJax for a second round pick. Trade back in the first round to the middle of the first round. Take the DJax pick, trade back pick, and your 3rd rounder and get back in to the first round, around the mid 20s. You take a OT and C with your first two picks, leaving your second round pick to take the best available NT, OG, or Safety (in that order). In free agency, sign a younger guy to play guard. Throw fucking money at him. Get a quality OG to come in and maul on the Oline. Open up holes for the RB and actually pass block. Go in to next season with an offensive line that can block for 3 seconds on a regular basis.

Have an open competition at QB. Griffin, Cousins, McCoy, whoever else you want. But don't go drafting a QB in the first three rounds and expect him to do anything behind this Oline. Griffin will have the best chance to win the job. If he does, go with him for a while and see if there is any improvement. If not, switch it up. Worst case scenario, you have a poor (but improved) season, and Gruden can draft his guy in 2016.

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

It was the right call, per the rules. I think the rule is stupid, but whatever. It was the correct call.

Griffin looked improved yesterday, but not by a whole lot. He still can't find open receivers and he still hangs on to the ball too much. But he did show improvement, and, should start the rest of the way.

Redskins coaching staff and management need to put together a detailed plan for Griffin's offseason. Work on being a pocket passer. Work on preparing for games. Work on studying film. Work on fundamentals. Spend the offseason building the offensive line. I mean a real committment. Like, your first and second round picks go to it.

Actually, what I would like to see trading DJax for a second round pick. Trade back in the first round to the middle of the first round. Take the DJax pick, trade back pick, and your 3rd rounder and get back in to the first round, around the mid 20s. You take a OT and C with your first two picks, leaving your second round pick to take the best available NT, OG, or Safety (in that order). In free agency, sign a younger guy to play guard. Throw fucking money at him. Get a quality OG to come in and maul on the Oline. Open up holes for the RB and actually pass block. Go in to next season with an offensive line that can block for 3 seconds on a regular basis.

Have an open competition at QB. Griffin, Cousins, McCoy, whoever else you want. But don't go drafting a QB in the first three rounds and expect him to do anything behind this Oline. Griffin will have the best chance to win the job. If he does, go with him for a while and see if there is any improvement. If not, switch it up. Worst case scenario, you have a poor (but improved) season, and Gruden can draft his guy in 2016.

RGIII should be trying to contact some old school QBs like Dan Marino, Boomer Esiason, etc.........
(guys that lasted as Pocket Passers from the old days)
and ask for some advice, one on one training sessions, etc....

different sport but you how many guys worked with Okeem Olajuwan, for those unstoppable drop-step move down low.

who ever is showing RGIII doesnt know what the hell they doing, hasnt figured out how to work with RGIII or both.


anyway;
i am glad they lost regardless.......and the Jets won too.
so; now we are getting in a better position to deal with our draft picks.

i am not sure which direction we will be going with the early picks.

 

[Slateman]

We really need the Raiders and Jaguars to get on a two game streak.

Whatever, it's obvious that Gruden has it out for Griffin. They'll cut him, they'll keep Cousins, and McCoy will start next season. I'm sure Allen will rush out and spend money on safeties, ILBs, and probably another DEs or OLB. Then they'll draft a safety, OLB, and running back. In October, Dan will be wondering why the team sucks again.

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

as long as we go 0-2 for remainder of season..........we will be in Top 5
:yup:

 

[Slateman]

as long as we go 0-2 for remainder of season..........we will be in Top 5
:yup:

Except now I'm conflicted. I really want to lose to the Eagles and then beat the Cowboys, just to see the Cowboys not make the playoffs with a 10 win record. Plus, the look on everyone's faces when RGIII beats Dallas to end the season would be priceless.

As long as the Jets win another game, the Skins have the fifth pick.

 

[Slateman]

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

Except now I'm conflicted. I really want to lose to the Eagles and then beat the Cowboys, just to see the Cowboys not make the playoffs with a 10 win record. Plus, the look on everyone's faces when RGIII beats Dallas to end the season would be priceless.

As long as the Jets win another game, the Skins have the fifth pick.

Cowboys will lose themselves when they play Colts - Murry looks like he might be out with a broken hand or will be playing hurt.

 

[Slateman]

So Griffin starts the short week game. When he sucks, does Gruden push McCoy back out there?

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

So Griffin starts the short week game. When he sucks, does Gruden push McCoy back out there?

let him play even if he sucks out there.........

 

[Slateman]

Griffin looked better. The two deep passes to Jackson were good. Only taking two sacks was nice.

He missed some receivers and then that interception was bad. He really needed to make a better read there. But, the point is, he has improved since he came back from injury.

Oh and extending Trent Williams should be the highest priority this offseason.

 

[dave]

As an Eagles' fan, today sucked, but you guys deserved the win and I have no issue with that.
As far as RG3 goes, IMO Jay Gruden simply does not have the capital (no pun intended) to completely nuke RG3's career in Washington. If this was Bill Belichick or a Super Bowl winning coach saying all of this stuff, ok ... but it's Jay Gruden, middling Bengals' offensive co-ordinator who magically got a five-year guaranteed deal in Washington and, seemingly, the ability to nuke RG3's career.

Like most, I'm not sure if RG3 is the long-term answer in Washington, but at the very least, the stupid coach shouldn't be calling him a spoiled, stupid baby in public and do his best to make this work.

Nothing Jay Gruden has done this season makes me believe the Redskins should bring him back, other than the four guaranteed years on his contract.

 

[Slateman]

I know I said the Skins need to concentrate on offensive linemen, but Danny Shelton would make this defense go

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

I know I said the Skins need to concentrate on offensive linemen, but Danny Shelton would make this defense go

if we dont work on our OL; the defense gonna needs lots of help since they will be out there a long time......
:shaqlol: