Pats Sign Amendola (5y/27.7m/10g), Talib, Wilson, Arrington (4y/16,/8.5g)

[jms493]

you cant minus Amendola's health issues in game like football. I dont care how good you play if you only play half the season.

 

[Len B]

Amendola's injury history being totally blown out of proportion here.

-First two seasons, plays 30 games.
-Has major injury, as did Welker
-Breaks a collarbone on a fluke play where he dives for a pass on turf

He's played at least 11 games in 3 out of his 4 seasons. It's not like the guy is :dead: every season.

 

[stevsta]

I'll go on record and say Welker plays in less games the next three years. Six straight years of being hit over the middle 100+ times is going to take a toll on an older body.

:nope:

have fun with amendola having 3 awesome games then getting injured

 

[killgod]

Could have just paid the proven commodity instead of rolling he dice. The guy is never healthy. Brady didnt restructure for that shit.

No he restructured for Vollmer to protect his ass and possibly Talib to ensure he doesn't have to be jesus every week to win a game.

 

[killgod]

Amendola is better than Welker?

:huh:

Depends on what's being talked about. Faster? Definitely. More agile/shifty? Could be argued. Hands? Recent memory suggests Welker is slipping a bit.

The durability is becoming a bit overblown for sure. Then again, most people can't recall anything but recent history and he was hurt in recent seasons. First two years of the NFL? College? :nope:


In other aspects:
-the contract is much more favourable to New England to have cap space now.
-Wes Welker simply will NOT get better as a player, he's 31 and had his knee rebuilt in his career, you only go down from here. Instead NE has a player of the same mold for 5 more years, something Welker could not have given them. If they passed on Amendola now and stuck with Welker, what happens in 2 years when Welker slips some more and is 33?


This is how you maintain your status on the top in the NFL. NE has willingly shed talent more often at the right time, than hanging on too long for retarded loyalty reasons that other teams seem to hold so dear to. Offering him 10M over 2 years is no insult considering all factors, he wanted more and got it, so be it, but NE doesn't owe it to him to pay him what he wants. If you guys like your team hanging on to aging veterans and overpaying them for nostalgic reasons, don't bitch when your team sucks ass because of it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Amendola's injury history being totally blown out of proportion here.

-First two seasons, plays 30 games.
-Has major injury, as did Welker
-Breaks a collarbone on a fluke play where he dives for a pass on turf

He's played at least 11 games in 3 out of his 4 seasons. It's not like the guy is :dead: every season.

It's not blown out of proportion at all. You are just trying to talk yourself into thinking this is the case.

Forget all of the games he's missed, he also doesn't finish a good portion of the games he starts. He is constantly leaving games injured and is basically listed as "questionable" every week.

I like Amendola, but I knew he wouldn't be back and didn't lose any sleep over it. Rams flat out said they weren't going to pay him because he can't stay on the field. Not only that, Amendola has mediocre hands at best and does not protect the ball. He makes acrobatic catches but drops a lot of easy ones.

The Pats basically signed the poor man's Welker, and could have just spent slightly more to keep the better & far more durable version. Honestly, I don't get it.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Depends on what's being talked about. Faster? Definitely. More agile/shifty? Could be argued. Hands? Recent memory suggests Welker is slipping a bit.

The durability is becoming a bit overblown for sure. Then again, most people can't recall anything but recent history and he was hurt in recent seasons. First two years of the NFL? College? :nope:


In other aspects:
-the contract is much more favourable to New England to have cap space now.
-Wes Welker simply will NOT get better as a player, he's 31 and had his knee rebuilt in his career, you only go down from here. Instead NE has a player of the same mold for 5 more years, something Welker could not have given them. If they passed on Amendola now and stuck with Welker, what happens in 2 years when Welker slips some more and is 33?


This is how you maintain your status on the top in the NFL. NE has willingly shed talent more often at the right time, than hanging on too long for retarded loyalty reasons that other teams seem to hold so dear to. Offering him 10M over 2 years is no insult considering all factors, he wanted more and got it, so be it, but NE doesn't owe it to him to pay him what he wants. If you guys like your team hanging on to aging veterans and overpaying them for nostalgic reasons, don't bitch when your team sucks ass because of it.

A rebuttle.

What is being talked about is that Welker is a superior player...there is nothing you could actually point to that would suggest otherwise. Speed is negligible...besides, the type of player needed in New England to play the Y spot doesn't need speed. Welker ran a low 4.6, Edelman runs a low 4.5, Amendola runs somewhere in the 4.5s.

More agile or shifty? Welker is the best in the business at working the slot...its more than agility and shiftiness, its about knowing the game of football...how to find the soft spot in the zone, coming out of breaks...considering Welker's unique role, he's proven a mastery of his craft. No one, not at the X, Z, or Welker's Y spot, has rivaled his production league wide...that tells me all I need to know about his skill set as it relates to his position.

AS for hands...funny you mention that...while you may look at his 15 drops on the season (a league high) and suggest his hands are "slipping"...I laugh at that, because Welker is still among the leagues best receivers in the league statistically...he still rates in the Top 10 in regards to catch percentage while being among the league leaders in not only catches but targets...the volume of drops (for reference, Brandon Marshall and Calvin Johnson came in 2nd and 3rd in the same category) is a by product of the sheer amount of balls thrown his way.

Comparing the deals...essentially the same deal. The difference between the two is negligible.

As for Wes Welker getting better...LOL, you realize he is the greatest Y receiver in the history of the game...there is no getting better.

New England is not a flawless team...sure, they have shown moxie by dropping ever-bums like David Givens and Deion Branch...however, they also let go the likes of Richard Seymour and Asante Samuel when they still had a ton left in the tank and have succeed elsewhere all the while New England has continued to try and address the positions that were left void by players like that. New England stays competitive because they have Tom Brady. FIN. Everything else is a by product of having one of the greatest quarterbacks of all-time, and lets not forget, that New England hasn't actually done anything worth a damn since Spygate.

I have no doubt that Amendola can fill the role in some capacity left void by Wes Welker, but he's not better, he won't reproduce Welker's greatness no matter how white each guy is. But, he will produce, but lets not play it off like this is even close to a push. If New England re-signs Welker, he comes back, catches another 110 balls. We'll see how Amendola does.

 

[Argath]

He's younger so they can backload his base salary and pro-rate the bonus over a longer contract which will save them money against the cap especially in the two years that Welker is under contract.

Also, he played for McDaniels in St. Louis (although he got hurt early that year) and the boy genius is pretty damn good at locating value talent at WR. He took Brandon Lloyd off of the scrap heap and make him into a legit #1 WR.

Isn't this basically the same shit the redskins are paying $18 mill in cap penalties for?

 

[Glenbino]

Isn't this basically the same shit the redskins are paying $18 mill in cap penalties for?

I thought that was because they went over the cap in the uncapped season despite the other owners making a "gentlemen's agreement" to not do so...

Basically the Cowboys and Redskins are being punished for being the only teams not to participate in a league-wide collusion effort on the part of the other 30 owners in the league. At least that's the way I understand those penalties.

 

[dave]

I take Welker for $12M over 2 years vs. Amendola on that $31M over 5 years every day and twice on Sunday. Brady had a guy he relied on and a guy who was a proven performer. If anyone should have offered Amendola that contract, it was St. Louis.

All that said, Welker is Welker, Amendola is Welker Jr.

 

[Argath]

I thought that was because they went over the cap in the uncapped season despite the other owners making a "gentlemen's agreement" to not do so...

Basically the Cowboys and Redskins are being punished for being the only teams not to participate in a league-wide collusion effort on the other 30 owners in the league. At least that's the way I understand those penalties.

Ah, didnt know that. I thought it was for their restructuring of their contracts and front loading the shit out of them. Wasn't even thinking that they went over the cap I was thinking that the contracts were just too disproportionate or whatever

 

[ram29jackson]

I like how the NFL analysts compare Welker and Amendola and there similarities and don't say the most obvious that there both small white guys

doesnt matter, its a lateral move at best and wont benefit the Pats much at all

 

[ralaw]

If healthy Amendola will match Welker's production, but as it has been mentioned this isn't going to make the Pats any better.

 

[Len B]

It's not blown out of proportion at all. You are just trying to talk yourself into thinking this is the case.

Forget all of the games he's missed, he also doesn't finish a good portion of the games he starts. He is constantly leaving games injured and is basically listed as "questionable" every week.

Damnit. Was it like that the first two seasons too? Maybe New England water will make him super human :shifty:

As long as he can stay on the field 75% of the time I like the move. I've loved what I've seen from DA (and admittedly have a huge fantasy football bias), and at the end of the day he just has to be out there. The Patriots aren't running their offense through him, and at the end of the day have to address the defense and find a deep threat.

 

[killgod]

NE offered Welker an additional 6M in incentives, he didn't think he could reach them.

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

Pats stuck with injury prone ass now........

he can buy alot of yay-yo with that kinda loot
:lol:

 

[kyhadley]

To understand why the Patriots are comfortable letting Wes Welker walk to Denver while replacing him with Danny Amendola, you have to go back to March 2007 and appreciate what led the Patriots to Welker in the first place.

When Bill Belichick dealt second- and seventh-round picks to the Dolphins to acquire Welker in 2007, he wasn't bringing in a player with much of a pedigree. Welker went unselected in the 2004 draft, and while he made the Chargers out of training camp, San Diego cut him after the opening week of the season. Every team in the league got a second chance to acquire Welker for free, and each of them passed. Welker cleared waivers and made it to the Dolphins, where he spent one year as a returner and special teams grunt before eventually working his way into regular offensive reps. Unable to beat out the immortal Chris Chambers and Marty Booker for spots in a below-average passing attack, Welker started just three games during his three seasons in Miami. He caught 96 passes for 1,121 yards and one touchdown. Not in his last year. Across all three years.
Belichick treats second-round picks like they're manna from heaven, and he dealt a second-rounder and a seventh-rounder to the Dolphins to acquire Welker.1 Don't look back at that decision with what we know about Welker now; look back at it with what we knew about Welker at the time. He was hardly a sure thing; he was a receiver perceived to be a situational player with limited upside, Brandon Stokley with a fumbling problem (12 on 390 touches in Miami, a total that he matched over 817 touches with New England). Belichick didn't sign Welker for what he was. Belichick signed Welker for what he thought Welker could be.

Forgive me for sounding like Amendola's agent again for a moment, but his professional résumé before joining the Patriots simply blows Welker's pre-Pats career away. There are some similarities, of course. After the career at Texas Tech, Amendola went undrafted and became a practice squad guy, bouncing around the Cowboys and Eagles for about a year before eventually catching on with a bad team. The Rams used Amendola as a return guy before pushing him into the lineup as a situational receiver out of the slot. Unlike Welker, Amendola was the focal point of the Rams' passing attack, leading them in most receiving categories (including targets) in 2010. After missing virtually all of 2011 with a torn triceps, Amendola's 11-game season in 2012 prorates out to a 91-catch, 968-yard campaign. He'll join the Patriots with more than twice as many career catches and nearly twice as many yards as Welker had when he joined. He also won't cost the team a draft pick and has just $10 million guaranteed on his five-year deal, which is less than what Welker received as part of his two-year pact with the Broncos.

The biggest dig on Amendola is his health, but even that's been distorted in the analyses I've seen of this swap. Amendola suffered one major season-ending injury during his time with the Rams, a dislocated elbow. Over that same four-year stretch, Welker suffered one major season-ending injury, a torn ACL against the Texans. Amendola had the misfortune of suffering his injury in Week 1, while Welker's injury came during Week 17, allowing him to recuperate during the offseason before returning (as a limited version of his former self) without missing any regular-season games. This should go without saying, but you don't get to choose when you go down with a season-ending injury. The timing of each player's injury means something in terms of their past availability for their respective teams, but those two injuries are of equal relevance in predicting their future availability for their new teams. In fact, if anything, the Welker injury is scarier; a torn ACL for a player in his early-30s is much more worrisome than a dislocated elbow2 for a player in his mid-20s. Signing Amendola also doesn't preclude the Patriots from drafting another slot receiver in the late rounds (or signing one as an undrafted free agent) and attempting to develop him into a possible replacement if Amendola does go down with an injury.

What this eventually boils down to is the innate fear of change that fans have with regard to their team's stars. Most people are loath to give up on something good until it's been proven that a once-productive player can no longer perform at the same level. That's understandable, but it's a terrible way to run a football team. Belichick knows that, and he's spent 13 years moving on from players at exactly the right time. Patriots fans probably remember the case of Lawyer Milloy, who was released just before the 2003 season before catching on with the Bills and leading them to a 31-0 victory over the Patriots in Week 1. The Patriots went 17-1 after that and won the Super Bowl. When it wasn't Lawyer Milloy, it was Randy Moss. Or Ty Law. Or Richard Seymour. Or Deion Branch. Or Adam Vinatieri.3 At some point, Belichick might deserve the benefit of the doubt in these situations.

This all shouldn't really be much of a surprise. Belichick has had two years to give Welker a long-term contract and hasn't expressed even the slightest bit of interest in doing so. Having reportedly been given the final shot at matching what most people characterize as a modest two-year deal from the Broncos, Belichick turned the opportunity down. The Patriots are not built on getting every last drop out of their older players until they can no longer go. They've been built by having one constant — Tom Brady — and otherwise relying on change. They're the team that drafted one guy with a bum back and another who couldn't stop smoking weed and turned them into the most devastating set of tight ends in league history, a one-two strategy that teams around the league have tried to emulate since. They're the team that bought low on Moss and went to a scheme with spread characteristics before anyone else in the league had the balls to do so. And they're the team that went after Welker when he was a backup on a bad offense and ended up getting 672 catches and five Pro Bowls of output before moving on. Welker will very likely play well in Denver, as he'll spend two years catching passes from Peyton Manning in an offense that might even suit him better than the one he's leaving. But the Patriots will do just fine without him. They always do.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9051254/bill-barnwell-second-day-nfl-free-agency

 

[Glenbino]

A rebuttle.

What is being talked about is that Welker is a superior player...there is nothing you could actually point to that would suggest otherwise. Speed is negligible...besides, the type of player needed in New England to play the Y spot doesn't need speed. Welker ran a low 4.6, Edelman runs a low 4.5, Amendola runs somewhere in the 4.5s.

More agile or shifty? Welker is the best in the business at working the slot...its more than agility and shiftiness, its about knowing the game of football...how to find the soft spot in the zone, coming out of breaks...considering Welker's unique role, he's proven a mastery of his craft. No one, not at the X, Z, or Welker's Y spot, has rivaled his production league wide...that tells me all I need to know about his skill set as it relates to his position.

AS for hands...funny you mention that...while you may look at his 15 drops on the season (a league high) and suggest his hands are "slipping"...I laugh at that, because Welker is still among the leagues best receivers in the league statistically...he still rates in the Top 10 in regards to catch percentage while being among the league leaders in not only catches but targets...the volume of drops (for reference, Brandon Marshall and Calvin Johnson came in 2nd and 3rd in the same category) is a by product of the sheer amount of balls thrown his way.

Comparing the deals...essentially the same deal. The difference between the two is negligible.

As for Wes Welker getting better...LOL, you realize he is the greatest Y receiver in the history of the game...there is no getting better.

New England is not a flawless team...sure, they have shown moxie by dropping ever-bums like David Givens and Deion Branch...however, they also let go the likes of Richard Seymour and Asante Samuel when they still had a ton left in the tank and have succeed elsewhere all the while New England has continued to try and address the positions that were left void by players like that. New England stays competitive because they have Tom Brady. FIN. Everything else is a by product of having one of the greatest quarterbacks of all-time, and lets not forget, that New England hasn't actually done anything worth a damn since Spygate.

I have no doubt that Amendola can fill the role in some capacity left void by Wes Welker, but he's not better, he won't reproduce Welker's greatness no matter how white each guy is. But, he will produce, but lets not play it off like this is even close to a push. If New England re-signs Welker, he comes back, catches another 110 balls. We'll see how Amendola does.

I agree with everything here except for the deals being essentially the same.. There should be a pretty big difference in cap hits that Denver and New England will face in 2013 and 2014.

Also Welker's deal is fully guaranteed so he'll get the full $12 mil with a possible $3 mil roster bonus next year and $150,000 incentives for catching 90 passes in a season, which he should probably get to.

I couldn't find a yearly breakdown for Amendola's deal.

 

[BigBucs]

If healthy Amendola will match Welker's production, but as it has been mentioned this isn't going to make the Pats any better.

I dont see it. Catching 115 balls a season isnt something that happens year in and year out unless, unless you are Wes Welker.

 

[MVPete]