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PSU Penalties: $60 Mil Fine, 4-Year Bowl Ban, 40 Schollies Over 4 Years, Wins Vacated

  • Thread starter Thread starter sportsguy9695
  • Start date Start date
Yeah I've read them both. Trying to be fair and balanced. However based on the reaction we have seen from large portions of the PSU "family" there seems to be more outrage still at the sanctions than at the the school itself for what it did.

I've heard a few former athletes agree with the sanctions while other's haven't. As far as alumni and fans....meh. Generally those groups of people aren't rational anyways.

Todd Blackledge was on Mike and Mike basically defending Paterno saying "you don't know the man". Meh. Mike and Mike did a good job of trying to explain to people that there are some people in this world that hold a person in their life to very high esteem and many PSU players, alumni and fans have spent the majority of their life thinking Paterno and thusly PSU were the epitome of intetgrity and quality. I guess for many it is still hard to grasp that the guy they put so much faith in wasn't who they thought he was.
 
Oh I get it. So the ncaa is punishing the fans and alumni that follow the same culture that is in every other major football institution. Whose only crime is they just happen to follow the wrong college team?

Is that the message they are sending?
 
Oh I get it. So the ncaa is punishing the fans and alumni that follow the same culture that is in every other major football institution.
Penn St culture wasn't the same as every other major college institution. That's kind of the entire point.

Nice work Chris Fowler Jr.
 
Penn St culture wasn't the same as every other major college institution. That's kind of the entire point.

Nice work Chris Fowler Jr.

I don't understand why that point is relevant. This isn't like any other NCAA ruling ever. It's unprecedented in how the NCAA expanded their power, in fact. So how the fans and alumni react in comparison to other fans and alumni is moot.

Regardless, I had a longer post written up before my browser crashed, basically consisting of some random thoughts living in a super PSU fan family and being on vacation with all of them last week. I can definitely verify that what Mike and Mike said about some people just being in disbelief about Paterno is true. My Dad is still convinced that some information will come out that will exonerate him. At first it irritated me, but then I realized that perspective is needed (some of the more self righteous here could use some as well). To a lot of people, for either good or ill, Paterno was someone they looked up to, and for a lot of older people, pedophilia is something that came with the internet. Part of me imagines that Paterno fell into the same pit, basically hearing this (about the pedophilia) and having the reaction of "What the fuck are you talking about? Get out of here with that shit."

It's not an excuse, and of course it's been around for forever, but personally it helped explain some of the crazy reactions of PSU fans. /randomness

So, on a different, related topic, what good, if any, can the Paterno family's own investigation possibly do? I don't see how it can come across as anything more than a biased attempt to restore his legacy (and that's even IF they actually come up with evidence that exonerates him).
 
shag, you've been pretty bad in this thread. You've been on this passive aggressive woe is me sarcasm thing and it's pretty bad. You're better than this.
 
I don't understand why that point is relevant.
It's relevant because it goes back to the overall point of this from the last page which shaq responded to:

Sure the overall football culture nationwide can't be erased but that's not what the NCAA was trying to do at PSU. They weren't trying to erase football culture in general, they were trying to correct/change a football culture that had swung WAY to far out of whack.

I don't think the NCAA, or anyone for that matter, it stupid enough to think you can completely eradicate the general football culture nation wide of coaches getting away with sending extra text messages, or maybe bending a rule here or there or whatever, but PSU was so unique because the culture was so pervasive and so entirely absurd that it allowed child rape to be covered up for a decade +. I don't think the NCAA is trying to turn PSU into "no issues with football culture at all" University...but they are just trying to smack them back into lockstep with the rest of the (partially crooked) norm of the NCAA if you want to be overly cynical about it.

Trying to bend the NCAA ruling of changing the culture at PSU into "PSU has the same football culture issue as every other school in the nation" is rather dumb IMO because I think anyone who followed this story or college football for the last 20 years know what kind of pull, influence, etc Joe Paterno and that football program had....and it was obviously well beyond the norm even to the most cynical person.
 
It's relevant because it goes back to the overall point of this from the last page which shaq responded to:



I don't think the NCAA, or anyone for that matter, it stupid enough to think you can completely eradicate the general football culture nation wide of coaches getting away with sending extra text messages, or maybe bending a rule here or there or whatever, but PSU was so unique because the culture was so pervasive and so entirely absurd that it allowed child rape to be covered up for a decade +. I don't think the NCAA is trying to turn PSU into "no issues with football culture at all" University...but they are just trying to smack them back into lockstep with the rest of the (partially crooked) norm of the NCAA if you want to be overly cynical about it.

Trying to bend the NCAA ruling of changing the culture at PSU into "PSU has the same football culture issue as every other school in the nation" is rather dumb IMO because I think anyone who followed this story or college football for the last 20 years know what kind of pull, influence, etc Joe Paterno and that football program had....and it was obviously well beyond the norm even to the most cynical person.

I gotcha. in all honesty, I'm so exhausted by this whole story, when I came into this thread I just read the last few posts and was looking for an excuse to post my own thoughts :shifty:

I still can't say I agree with the NCAA stepping in, personally, but yours is still a well argued point.
 
I gotcha. in all honesty, I'm so exhausted by this whole story, when I came into this thread I just read the last few posts and was looking for an excuse to post my own thoughts :shifty:

I still can't say I agree with the NCAA stepping in, personally, but yours is still a well argued point.

I think the NCAA's hands were tied as soon as PSU agreed with the findings of the Freeh report really. As soon as that happened and the report had a laundry list of compliance issues, if the NCAA doesn't step in..they should have pretty much disbanded.
 
I think Mike and Mike did an excellent job at picking apart Blackledges retarded statements. He says he think Paterno did it because he's loyal to a fault. And he was so upset with the picture the media was painting of Paterno (or some shit like that). Is that any better than any other reason? Countless children were molested that he could've stopped. Him being loyal doesn't make him any better a person after this and however he is viewed from here on out from the public he rightfully deserves.
 
shag, you've been pretty bad in this thread. You've been on this passive aggressive woe is me sarcasm thing and it's pretty bad. You're better than this.

I thought a passive approach was welcomed around here. Just pull up a nahste post as proof.

If you think I am looking for sympathy for this program than I guess I have been bad in this thread because I've done a poor job of stating my point.

I don't believe you change the culture of a program by validating it. I believe the people whose first reaction to the freeh report is to decimate the football program is on the same level as the psu fans who are solely worried about the future of the program.

And I don't believe the main reason for the ncaas swift response was to change a culture, it was to protect their brand and their annual 700 million dollar bottom line by giving the masses what they wanted.

And no, I don't believe psu fans are any different than any other college fans in the country. What was different was the culture that surrounded the school admins and paterno, which was changed 9 months ago.

That's all ill say on the subject.
 
I think Mike and Mike did an excellent job at picking apart Blackledges retarded statements. He says he think Paterno did it because he's loyal to a fault. And he was so upset with the picture the media was painting of Paterno (or some shit like that). Is that any better than any other reason? Countless children were molested that he could've stopped. Him being loyal doesn't make him any better a person after this and however he is viewed from here on out from the public he rightfully deserves.

I agree, but I don't think I'd call Blackledge's statements retarded. More just...irrational. As I alluded to in my previous post, it's easy for people that didn't give a shit about Penn State prior to all of this to say "well, he's an asshole" and move on. Seeing how hard it is for alumni and fans to grasp/deal with all of this insanity, it's not surprising to me at all that guys that played for and were close with Paterno are having a hard time as well.
 
I thought a passive approach was welcomed around here. Just pull up a nahste post as proof.

If you think I am looking for sympathy for this program than I guess I have been bad in this thread because I've done a poor job of stating my point.

I don't believe you change the culture of a program by validating it. I believe the people whose first reaction to the freeh report is to decimate the football program is on the same level as the psu fans who are solely worried about the future of the program.

And I don't believe the main reason for the ncaas swift response was to change a culture, it was to protect their brand and their annual 700 million dollar bottom line by giving the masses what they wanted.

And no, I don't believe psu fans are any different than any other college fans in the country. What was different was the culture that surrounded the school admins and paterno, which was changed 9 months ago.

That's all ill say on the subject.
If you honestly believe the "culture" issue at PSU didn't and still doesn't go deeper than those guys. You have your head in the sand. Hell, there are still board members at PSU who are still in love with JoePa.
 
Yeah I've read them both. Trying to be fair and balanced. However based on the reaction we have seen from large portions of the PSU "family" there seems to be more outrage still at the sanctions than at the the school itself for what it did.

So?

Is the NCAA in the business of punishing people for the way they think?

This is why the NCAA getting involved in this was a slippery slope. I understand they had to do something, but now the NCAA has set a dangerous precedent.

Who the fuck is the NCAA to decide what people should think about Joe Paterno?
 
If you honestly believe the "culture" issue at PSU didn't and still doesn't go deeper than those guys. You have your head in the sand. Hell, there are still board members at PSU who are still in love with JoePa.

You mean the same board members that fired him along with the university president?
 
So?

Is the NCAA in the business of punishing people for the way they think?
When it gets to the point of covering up child rape/molestation? Yes.

If people don't "think" extra text messages are a big deal does that mean that even though they are against the rules the NCAA shouldn't punish it?



This is why the NCAA getting involved in this was a slippery slope. I understand they had to do something, but now the NCAA has set a dangerous precedent.
It's not really because this case is so far off the reservation and so unique.



You mean the same board members that fired him along with the university president?
Was that vote unanimous?
 
Report: Penn State faced 4-year 'death penalty'

Penn State faced a multiyear shutdown of its football program had it not agreed with the sanctions imposed by the NCAA earlier this week, university President Rodney Erickson told ESPN.
The football program at Penn State faced a four-year "death penalty," a complete cessation of football activities, Erickson said, according to the ESPN report, as well as fines well in excess of the $60 million levied.

The four-year death penalty option was confirmed by NCAA President Mark Emmert, who said in a separate interview with ESPN that what the network termed "a core group of NCAA school presidents" had agreed on the unprecedented sanctions.

Once Penn State learned of the NCAA intentions, school officials engaged in five days of secret discussions with the NCAA that resulted in the penalties announced Monday, ESPN reported. Those include the record $60 million fine, a four-year postseason ban, a four-year reduction in football scholarships and five years of probation. Penn State also was forced to vacate its football victories since 1998, including 111 by the late coach Joe Paterno.

Penn State's board of trustees was not involved in those negotiations, and some members had expressed anger at not being allowed a vote on whether to approve the agreement with the NCAA, according to ESPN. But in a statement Wednesday night, the board said based on the alternative, it would abide by the agreement.

"The Board finds the punitive sanctions difficult and the process with the NCAA unfortunate. But as we understand it, the alternatives were worse as confirmed by NCAA President Mark Emmert’s recent statement that Penn State was likely facing a multiyear death sentence. The University and Board resolve to move forward together to recognize the historical excellence in Penn State’s academic and athletic programs. We anticipate and look forward to demonstrating our outstanding performance in complying with the sanctions," the statement said.

If Penn State’s leaders had not taken the actions they did, “I don’t know what the outcome would have been, but I suspect it would have been significantly worse,” Emmert said in an ESPN interview.

Erickson told ESPN that a four-year ban on football could have had a devastating effect beyond football, which is the economic engine of the athletic department.

"I think it is not only best for our football program but best for our entire set of sports and intercollegiate athletes to be able to continue on and have the opportunity to play in that stadium and participate," ESPN quoted Erickson as saying.



The sanctions are part of the continued fallout from the child sex abuse scandal involving former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, who was convicted in late June of 45 of the 48 counts he faced involving 10 young victims.

The NCAA action follows an independent investigation led by former FBI Director Louis Freeh, whose report held Paterno and other top Penn State officials responsible for failing to stop the abuse beginning in 1998.

Paterno, who coached at Penn State for 46 years, was fired after Sandusky's arrest in November. He died in January. Graham Spanier, then the school's president, was also let go. Two other former university officials face criminal charges related to their alleged failure to report incidents regarding Sandusky's crimes to authorities.


The NCAA has used the "death penalty" on football only once, shutting down the program at Southern Methodist University in 1987 for violations of NCAA rules. The school also canceled its 1988 season and suffered two decades of losing seasons.

That was not something Penn State officials wanted to endure.

"I want to play football, and I want to play football on television," Penn State head coach Bill O'Brien said in an ESPN interview.

"Both of those things are possible under the sanctions," ESPN quoted Erickson as saying.

A group of Penn State players on Wednesday pledged to stick with the university, calling the sanctions, which allow transfers to other universities without penalty, an "opportunity."

"As a team, we don’t see this as a punishment, this is an opportunity; this is the greatest opportunity a Penn Stater could ever be given," senior running back Michael Zordich said in front of a group of players gathered outside the school's football facility. "We have an obligation to Penn State, and we have the ability to fight for not just a team, not just a program, but an entire university and every man that wore the blue and white on that gridiron before us."

Senior linebacker Michael Mauti said the sanction give the current players "an opportunity to create our own legacy."

"This program was not built by one man, and this program sure as hell is not going to get torn down by one man," Mauti said. "No sanction, no politician is ever going to take away what we got here."

Both players pledged a special effort for the 2012 season.

"We’re going to show up every Saturday and we’re going to raise hell," Mauti said.

A 4 year death penalty would have killed the program and probably many businesses around the area.
 
I agree, but I don't think I'd call Blackledge's statements retarded. More just...irrational. As I alluded to in my previous post, it's easy for people that didn't give a shit about Penn State prior to all of this to say "well, he's an asshole" and move on. Seeing how hard it is for alumni and fans to grasp/deal with all of this insanity, it's not surprising to me at all that guys that played for and were close with Paterno are having a hard time as well.


Like most things, the truth likely lies in the middle with Paterno.

My personal belief is he chose to not out Sandusky unless it was clear Sandusky broke the law and he had no choice. For example, the 1998 investigation led to no charges, and Paterno likely rationalized that that was good enough for him, and left well enough alone.

I think with hindsight, Paterno realized he screwed up. Personally, this does not make him a monster or an evil person to me. It just means he screwed this up. I'm not sure he understood the gravity and depth of what was going on with Sandusky, and couldn't be bothered with it. I think a lot of people, particularly fans of other programs, have taken the mob mentality here a bit further then it needed to be taken, because they are taking some glee out of the fact that the squeaky clean guy is taking a hit here.

Did he screw up? Yes. Was he a callous mastermind, who intentionally and knowingly allowed kids to get butt fucked in his showers? Please. I don't buy that for one second.
 
A 4 year death penalty would have killed the program and probably many businesses around the area.

Yeah, that's why people calling for a death penalty are hypocrites.

The sanctions were fair and were just enough for the school to take a hit, while also producing the least amount of collateral damage as possible.

Why people who were supposedly so outraged and all about "THINK ABOUT THE VICTIMS!!!!" were so dead set on creating more victims, is beyond my understanding.
 
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When it gets to the point of covering up child rape/molestation? Yes.

If people don't "think" extra text messages are a big deal does that mean that even though they are against the rules the NCAA shouldn't punish it?

Football related cheating issues, so yes, the NCAA should punish it.

My stance remains the same. The NCAA should not be in a position to dictate what people should think. That's absurd. Stick to your goofy recruiting violations and such. The NCAA is not and should not be the morality police.
 
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