PSU Penalties: $60 Mil Fine, 4-Year Bowl Ban, 40 Schollies Over 4 Years, Wins Vacated

[FirstTimer]

Football related cheating issues, so yes, the NCAA should punish it.

My stance remains the same. The NCAA should not be in a position to dictate what people should think. That's absurd. Stick to your goofy recruiting violations and such. The NCAA is not and should not be the morality police.

It's not a moral issue though simply either. There were numerous compliance and reporting issues mentioned as well.

The NCAA had jurisdiction.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

It's not a moral issue though simply either. There were numerous compliance and reporting issues mentioned as well.

The NCAA had jurisdiction.

Get lost.

You really think the punishment handed down was simply about compliance & reporting issues? You think a program in trouble for the first time ever, would be handed down the worst sanctions of all time (short of SMU), for reporting issues, and reporting issues alone?

I know you like to argue for the sake of arguing, but you are coming off pretty badly, here.

 

[shag773]

Was that vote unanimous?

No but it was a consensus. And this was even before the freeh report came out.

If I remember correctly at that point even you were still on the fence. How would you of voted on nov 9th, 2011?

 

[ralaw]

Football related cheating issues, so yes, the NCAA should punish it.

My stance remains the same. The NCAA should not be in a position to dictate what people should think. That's absurd. Stick to your goofy recruiting violations and such. The NCAA is not and should not be the morality police.

I'm confused. Where are you getting these sanctions had anything to do with the NCAA regulating what people think? The heart of these sanctions centered around the cover up of child molestation, which centered around the football program.

 

[FirstTimer]

Get lost.

With you?

You really think the punishment handed down was simply about compliance & reporting issues?

No, and I never said that in fact I implied the opposite in the post you quoted. See: "simply"

I know you like to argue for the sake of arguing, but you are coming off pretty badly, here.

LOL coming from someone who said the NCAA shouldn't be able to control the way people think. Well, derp, they try to do that with any rule they have. No matter how mundane.

 

[FirstTimer]

No

Ok.
Thanks for playing.

If I remember correctly at that point even you were still on the fence. How would you of voted on nov 9th, 2011?

IIRC I'm on record in the thread saying he should be fired.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm confused. Where are you getting these sanctions had anything to do with the NCAA regulating what people think?

FT made a point that the NCAA was punishing Penn St, in part, due to the 'culture'. He then cited people in Happy Valley still supporting JoPa. He seems to be ok with this.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

LOL coming from someone who said the NCAA shouldn't be able to control the way people think. Well, derp, they try to do that with any rule they have. No matter how mundane.

No they don't. The rules they have may be mundane and trivial sometimes, but this idea that they are punishing Penn St in part for their 'culture' is what came off absurd to me.

 

[FirstTimer]

FT made a point that the NCAA was punishing Penn St, in part, due to the 'culture'. He then cited people in Happy Valley still supporting JoPa. He seems to be ok with this.

No. I cited people in Happy Valley because shaq said the "culture" issue was fixed when 3 people were fired.

No they don't. The rules they have may be mundane and trivial sometimes, but this idea that they are punishing Penn St in part for their 'culture' is what came off absurd to me.

Yes they absolutely do. That's kind of the idea behind rules/law try to show you a way to think, or make you think something is wrong or whatever. Most of it goes back to making a person think that something is cheating and cheating = wrong. But yes, in a way rules/laws are made to influence thought processes.

 

[FirstTimer]

11-09-11 @9:37am

I believe we(W2B and I) have both called for an agreed that he should lose his job.

 

[FirstTimer]

I find it absurd that people think a nearly 50 year cultural issue that lead to the cover up of child rape extended to only three people on PSU's campus.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

No. I cited people in Happy Valley because shaq said the "culture" issue was fixed when 3 people were fired.

I said this:

So?

Is the NCAA in the business of punishing people for the way they think?

You said this, in direct and multi quoted response:

When it gets to the point of covering up child rape/molestation? Yes.

You support the NCAA legislating and punishing people for their thoughts. That's your stance, fine. But then don't deny it.

Now go argue yourself into another circle. That shit might work with the likes of Zoneblitz, but not with me m'fer.

Yes they absolutely do. That's kind of the idea behind rules/law try to show you a way to think, or make you think something is wrong or whatever. Most of it goes back to making a person think that something is cheating and cheating = wrong. But yes, in a way rules/laws are made to influence thought processes.

You are reaching.

The NCAA punishing schools who break their silly little rules is completely different than punishing Penn St for their "culture". A culture is not tangible, sending extra text messages to a recruit for is. It's a black & white rule issue.

 

[RosettaStoned]

Why people who were supposedly so outraged and all about "THINK ABOUT THE VICTIMS!!!!" were so dead set on creating more victims, is beyond my understanding.

Because, the vast majority of that community are supporting people that covered up butt fucking small children. Fuck that place.

 

[FirstTimer]

I said this:

Yeah, I know what you said. Which was in response to something completely separate that I was talking to shaq about.

Pull yo head out of your ass. Seriously.

I cited people at Happy Valley because shaq seemed to think the culture changed when 3 people were fired. Which is hilarious.

You said this, in direct and multi quoted response:

Obviously in this case yes. The NCAA should legislate that "thinking" that covering up child rape is acceptable.

Yes, I think the NCAA should have the right to punish "thinking" in this case.

That's your stance, fine. But then don't deny it.

I never denied any stance. You don't even know what the conversation was and you jumped in the middle, with what I hope, is your devils advocate BS.

I never denied saying the NCAA doesn't or shouldn't try and legislate people for "thinking" a certain way.

In fact I have repeatedly implied the exact opposite.

That shit might work with the likes of Zoneblitz, but not with me m'fer.

True.

At this point you're looking much worse than ZB.

You are reaching.

Actually I'm not.

The NCAA punishing schools who break their silly little rules is completely different than punishing Penn St for their "culture". A culture is not tangible, sending extra text messages to a recruit for is. It's a black & white rule issue.

Right, because we didn't see any tangible proof this culture was out of control.

BRB..child rape isn't tangible.

 

[shag773]

11-09-11 @9:37am

Im glad you were able to clear that up. I just remember you were weren't ready to crucify him at that point, but I couldn't remember if you were for or against his firing at that point.

Regardless, if your only argument that the bot firing of paterno wasn't proof of a change in culuer because it wasn't unanimous, than you are reaching.

 

[NAHSTE]

Why people who were supposedly so outraged and all about "THINK ABOUT THE VICTIMS!!!!" were so dead set on creating more victims, is beyond my understanding.

OH NO YOU DIDN'T. You did not just equate the victimization of the Second Mile children with people who can no longer watch their favorite football team. I know you did not just equate these two groups...

The only victims here were the children Sandusky raped. The only people who created more victims in all this are the decision makers in Penn State administration and athletic dept who condoned, encouraged and enabled Sandusky. Those directly or indirectly affected by the NCAA ruling are not victims, they are just people bitching about their favorite football team receiving what they perceive to be a raw deal.

Unfortunate word usage is unfortunate.

 

[FirstTimer]

Im glad you were able to clear that up. I just remember you were weren't ready to crucify him at that point, but I couldn't remember if you were for or against his firing at that point.

Well even by that point it was clear he had made an egregious error morally IMO. At least serious enough that he should lose his job over it.

On the subject of the board, I believe there are some new members who actually ran for (re)election based on posthumously giving Paterno his head coach title back.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

OH NO YOU DIDN'T. You did not just equate the victimization of the Second Mile children with people who can no longer watch their favorite football team. I know you did not just equate these two groups...

The only victims here were the children Sandusky raped. The only people who created more victims in all this are the decision makers in Penn State administration and athletic dept who condoned, encouraged and enabled Sandusky.

Those affected by the NCAA ruling are not victims, they are just people bitching about their favorite football team receiving what they perceive to be a raw deal.

Unfortunate word usage is unfortunate.

I was referring to the entire economic structure of not only State College, but all of the surrounding areas. The thousands of people who would either lose jobs or lose their businesses. That would be creating more victims, absolutely.

How does any of that bring justice to the Sandusky victims? The idea here should have been to create as little collateral damage as possible, and I think the NCAA accomplished that.

 

[shag773]

OH NO YOU DIDN'T. You did not just equate the victimization of the Second Mile children with people who can no longer watch their favorite football team. I know you did not just equate these two groups...

The only victims here were the children Sandusky raped. The only people who created more victims in all this are the decision makers in Penn State administration and athletic dept who condoned, encouraged and enabled Sandusky. Those directly or indirectly affected by the NCAA ruling are not victims, they are just people bitching about their favorite football team receiving what they perceive to be a raw deal.

Unfortunate word usage is unfortunate.

It amazing to me how normally intelligent poster can completly, or should I say deliberately, miss the context or understanding of another post. This thread is going downhill fast....

 

[NAHSTE]

I was referring to the entire economic structure of not only State College, but all of the surrounding areas. The thousands of people who would either lose jobs or lose their businesses. That would be creating more victims, absolutely.

How does any of that bring justice to the Sandusky victims? The idea here should have been to create as little collateral damage as possible, and I think the NCAA accomplished that.

It doesn't, and I'm not saying it does, I just found that to be an unfortunate phrasing considering getting molested as a young child is a lot more emotionally destructive than having to relocate because your business closed down.

Let's keep some perspective here. Whether you agree with how the NCAA handled this situation, its actions did not "victimize" anybody, at least nowhere near to the degree that the actual victims experienced. Let's stop equating those two things.