Rodgers or Brees?

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Rodgers. They looked unstoppable for essentially the entire year. Having such a performance after winning the SB , and being the talk of the town = MVP. Voters love story lines.
When is the voting exactly ? Brees beating Rodgers in the playoffs would possibly turn a tide.Then again Peyton beat McNair twice and Steve still got the MVP that year ((iirc))

 

[kmanharris]

I really don't see how you can justify giving it to Brees. Yes, he had one of the greatest seasons a quarterback has EVER had this year. However, Rodgers' campaign was even better.

If Rodgers had played that last game and put up 6 TDs like his backup did, he would've broke the TD record. He did break the QB record.

Brees numbers outside of a dome: 12 TD, 8 Int
Rodgers numbers outside of a dome: 38 TD, 6 Int

Brees plays for a team that has a fucking dome. They also play Atlanta which plays in a dome. Brees plays at least 9 games a year in a dome. One or two bad games for Brees outside of a dome are going to severely construe his stats.

 

[KNUBB]

Brees plays for a team that has a fucking dome. They also play Atlanta which plays in a dome. Brees plays at least 9 games a year in a dome. One or two bad games for Brees outside of a dome are going to severely construe his stats.

Exactly. Saints played 11 games in a dome

 

[bucky]

Exactly. Saints played 11 games in a dome

And that just means he played more games under better conditions. And he was still outperformed by the guy that played most of his games outdoors. Not sure that helps your argument.

 

[KNUBB]

And that just means he played more games under better conditions. And he was still outperformed by the guy that played most of his games outdoors. Not sure that helps your argument.

So the guy with less yards TDs and completion percentage(3 of the most important stats for a QB) outperformed Brees. The YPA AVG feels like a reach to point out a stat that Rodgers actually does have better then Brees. So that brings us to INTS, QBR, and YPA. Now take a second and compare that to Brees season. Don't pretend like Rodgers was throwing in rain and shit. It's just outside. Brees threw for 400+ in Lambeau. It doesn't matter where it's at Brees poops on defenses. The indoor/outdoor argument is pretty lame though.

 

[bucky]

So the guy with less yards TDs and completion percentage(3 of the most important stats for a QB) outperformed Brees.

Completion % is all you have. The yards and TD's are due to the 160 extra attempts.

The YPA AVG feels like a reach to point out a stat that Rodgers actually does have better then Brees.

A reach? How so? It's comes closer to comparing apples to apples than total yards or total tds. Yards per attempt tells a lot about the efficiency of a QB and the difficulty level of the passes they are completing.

So that brings us to INTS, QBR, and YPA. Now take a second and compare that to Brees season. Don't pretend like Rodgers was throwing in rain and shit. It's just outside. Brees threw for 400+ in Lambeau. It doesn't matter where it's at Brees poops on defenses. The indoor/outdoor argument is pretty lame though.

I did compare Rodgers season to Brees's. Have you not been paying attention. Rodgers was far more efficient than Brees. Far more td's produced per pass, far less ints per pass, far fewer turnovers per play.

Your argument of total yards is pretty thin.

 

[killgod]

Completion % is all you have. The yards and TD's are due to the 160 extra attempts.

The extra attempts show that Brees is a bigger peice of the Saints than Rodgers is of the Packers. More valuable. He did more to get them 13 than Rodgers did to get GB 14.

Now lets go back to assuming Rodgers fictional 160 attempts will give him 6000 yards and 56 TD's.

 

[KNUBB]

The fictitious 160 pass attempts that yield 6000 passing yards is hilarious. Real stats >>>>>>> projections. Why does Brees have more passing attempts. It has nothing to do with running up the score or anything. That is the Saints O. They may have the yardage of the 6th ranked rushing team, but they are a passing team. Basically you're reaching for stats to make it seem as though Rodgers had a better statistical year when in reality Brees numbers are better. That efficiency number is what you are forced to go to because Brees actual numbers are better. Not having to go to a ratio or average to make it favor Rodgers

 

[bucky]

The extra attempts show that Brees is a bigger peice of the Saints than Rodgers is of the Packers. More valuable. He did more to get them 13 than Rodgers did to get GB 14.

Wrong before and wrong again. Rodgers got GB wins earlier in games and more often than Brees. Sounds better and more important to me.

Now lets go back to assuming Rodgers fictional 160 attempts will give him 6000 yards and 56 TD's.

Just trying to compare apples to apples. Need to do that statistical analysis in order to compare efficiency and effectiveness. Far more informed than your "i feel like" argument.

 

[bucky]

The fictitious 160 pass attempts that yield 6000 passing yards is hilarious.

Not hilarious, needs to be done to make an informed comparison. That's how you try to measure efficiency and effectiveness.

Basically you're reaching for stats to make it seem as though Rodgers had a better statistical year when in reality Brees numbers are better. That efficiency number is what you are forced to go to because Brees actual numbers are better. Not having to go to a ratio or average to make it favor Rodgers

So your back to your Vinnie Testeverde was a better QB than Dan Fauts argument? More isn't better. Vinnie's yards were not better than Faut's yards. Brees's numbers were not better. Per pass is the best way to compare. It's the most accurate way to compare.

 

[killgod]

Wrong before and wrong again. Rodgers got GB wins earlier in games and more often than Brees. Sounds better and more important to me.

He got one more win, that's "more often" I guess?

Earlier in games? That makes him more valuable because Green Bay as a team was so good they were putting games away at halftime? Sounds more like a strong team than strong player.


I think the world has forgotten what "Valuable" means. Brees is the most valuable player to his team compared to any other, combine that with his performance and he's the MVP.

Feel free to retort with some excellent offensive output on a team that could win 12 games without Rodgers tho, it really makes a case for his "value".

 

[bucky]

He got one more win, that's "more often" I guess?

Earlier in games? That makes him more valuable because Green Bay as a team was so good they were putting games away at halftime? Sounds more like a strong team than strong player.

The running game didn't have much to do with it. Neither did the defense. That pretty much leaves the passing game. Gee, that sounds a lot like the QUARTERBACK had a lot to do with it. I told you before, a couple of times, why your comparing of teams is flawed. You lose site of the fact that the QB may have been a big part of what made the team better. You seem to ignore this. Flawed logic on your part.

I think the world has forgotten what "Valuable" means. Brees is the most valuable player to his team compared to any other, combine that with his performance and he's the MVP.

Your logic for coming to this conclusion is flawed. You would be wrong again.

Feel free to retort with some excellent offensive output on a team that could win 12 games without Rodgers tho, it really makes a case for his "value".

I come with reasonable stats, you still lean on your "I feel like". And you wonder why I think people are trolling on VSN.

 

[killgod]

the defence had nothing to do with it?

probably cause of the yards am I right?

It wouldn't be the league best 31 inteceptions would it?
It wouldn't be the 2nd in the NFL 4 defensive TD's contributing? +1 more from a fumble recovery?
Perhaps the league leading 468 yards off Turnovers?
League leading 130 pass defended?


It was all quarterback baby!

 

[ram29jackson]

Eli Manning is MVP, he did more with less !

 

[bucky]

the defence had nothing to do with it?
probably cause of the yards am I right?
It wouldn't be the league best 31 inteceptions would it?
It wouldn't be the 2nd in the NFL 4 defensive TD's contributing? +1 more from a fumble recovery?
Perhaps the league leading 468 yards off Turnovers?
League leading 130 pass defended?
It was all quarterback baby!

Yeah, now compare GB's defensive stats with NO's. The only significant area GB was better than NO's was turnovers. NO's D played better than GB's D this year. Go back and look at Del's post. Goes into both D's quite nicely.

Again, you have nothing here. GB's success rested on the passing game this year. I'm seriously hoping Capers has been waiting for the playoffs to show some things.

 

[KNUBB]

Bucky your argument is and correct me if I'm wrong, but we're suppose to disregard Brees's stats to make it favor Rodgers? Brees didn't have almost 5500 yards and more TDs than Rodgers and his stats don't mean anything considering he his bringing in one of the hottest teams into the playoffs amirite?

 

[bucky]

Bucky your argument is and correct me if I'm wrong, but we're suppose to disregard Brees's stats to make it favor Rodgers? Brees didn't have almost 5500 yards and more TDs than Rodgers and his stats don't mean anything considering he his bringing in one of the hottest teams into the playoffs amirite?

No my argument is you compare players stats in a way that is the most accurate and fair way to compare players. Which QB played better. And one of the hottest teams? Yes?. Wouldn't that also be GB, who actually was hotter during more of the season. So GB started hot, stayed hot and finished hot, but we give the hot nod to Brees cause he finished hot?

 

[killgod]

Yeah, now compare GB's defensive stats with NO's. The only significant area GB was better than NO's was turnovers. NO's D played better than GB's D this year. Go back and look at Del's post. Goes into both D's quite nicely.

Again, you have nothing here. GB's success rested on the passing game this year. I'm seriously hoping Capers has been waiting for the playoffs to show some things.

The Saints were obliterated by the Packers in every category I just listed you asshat. Lets just say they aren't and call me a troll tho.

Now lets go talk about how MEANINGLESS the passing yard record is, yet talk about how important PASSING YARDS are for a defence? Makes sense.

If we're gonna compare defences in the argument we have made, lets get stop assuming yards define rank because both number 1 seeds will say "get with the times old man".

 

[KNUBB]

Bucky you make it sound like Brees barely got the Saints into the playoffs. It isn't like it's empty stats. Which is what it seems like you're trying to say with the Vinny Testeverde statement. Like I said actual numbers >>>>>>>>> ratios and averages because that is what actually happened on the field. Averages are just some math to make a worthless number.

 

[ram29jackson]

give the Award to Brees..the Pack is going to the Super Bowl anyway..unless Eli " captain clutch" Manning, gets in the way !