So, Nuke...

[Primetime]

If you take out the 2nd half of last game, Cutler is averaging 29 PAPG.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

How does any of this disprove that Orton throwing more passes than anybody else has resulted in him being the leader in the one category that he has an edge on Cutler?

We can play with Cutler's pass attempts all we want, the bottom line is he is averaging more yards per attempt & yards per completion than Orton.

But yes, Orton has thrown for more yards in a four game sample size. Impressive.

 

[Primetime]

Don't get me wrong....I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. I don't think Orton's passing yards mean shit, especially compared to Cutler. I was simply posting the actual numbers estimate.

 

[FirstTimer]

What Jay Cutler turnover has cost the Bears this season?

 

[FirstTimer]

Oh yeah..and on the "if" "should" game. Orton was a miracle bounce away last year from having the same record as Cutler as a starter.

And round and round we go.

 

[bucky]

So, I'll play your game - Jay Cutler beat Green Bay

Meh....GB beat GB.

 

[bucky]

Oh come on. Mike Martz leaving is not the reason the Lions suck. Absolutely terrible front office decisions and questionable coaching is why we suck.

I think your Lions are getting better. Been in just about every game.

 

[Senser81]

How does any of this disprove that Orton throwing more passes than anybody else has resulted in him being the leader in the one category that he has an edge on Cutler?

We can play with Cutler's pass attempts all we want, the bottom line is he is averaging more yards per attempt & yards per completion than Orton.

But yes, Orton has thrown for more yards in a four game sample size. Impressive.

LOL. I still don't get how this can even be an argument. Would you say that Jamaal Charles is having a better year than Arian Foster, because the only category that Foster has over Charles is the relatively unimportant "rushing yards" category?

Kyle Orton is leading the NFL in passing yards. Jay Cutler isn't in the top 10. Their percentage based stats are nearly identical, BUT ORTON IS THROWING FOR 125 MORE YARDS PER GAME than Cutler.

Here is a baseball analogy...Keith Moreland gets hurt sometimes, but he ends up batting .315 with 125 hits. Pete Rose never gets hurt, and he ends up batting .315 with 225 hits. Would you argue that Moreland is better than Rose, because he hit .315 with LESS HITS?

 

[FirstTimer]

Yeah and the bears would have only given up two first round picks

Our GM is Jerry Angelo. Those 1st rounders wouldn't have mattered.

Everyone knows that.


:smug:

Nice upgrade. I'm this close to breaking out my Gaines Adams material.

I'll take the risk on Cutler's raw talent that at some point he explodes and becomes a legit pro bowler or all pro for a season or two than have Orton max out and have us win 10 games.

Go ahead and break out the Gaines Adams stuff. No sweat off my back. I was pumped about the Cutler trade. Then again it gave us a QB with elite level talent for the first time since Sid Luckman...so I had cause to be. I never threw it around in your face and not really sure what Bears fan's here did.

The Bears problems are much bigger than Cutler. Cutler has his own issues to overcome but no way in hell I would take the trade back. I'd hate to see Orton behind this offensive line...at the end of the day until the Bears get an offensive line that can block it doesn't matter who the QB, the OC, or the head coach is. This team won't succeed.

It's surprising to me the Bears started 3-0 and was puzzling as every concern/question that existed about this team in the preseason was still there or answered badly in the first threee games.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

LOL. I still don't get how this can even be an argument.

Because Cutler has a sample size large enough where it's fair to bring up the averages.

You can't bring up Orton leading the league in yards, without bringing up the fact he also leads the league in attempts, or that he's 7th in yards per completion...tied with Mark friggin' Sanchez, who isn't allowed to throw anything beyond 10 yards.

Cutler is 2nd in the league in yards per completion, and 4th in yards per attempt, ahead of Orton in both categories. The one category where Orton has a huge edge on Cutler this year, yards, has got to be negated by his huge edge in attempts.

The formula for beating Denver has been the same for two years now. Let them have all of that underneath junk they throw (in place of the lack of running game), and dare Orton to beat you. To his credit, he's had some success throwing long at times this year, and is having a career year. But you also get games where he throws for 500 yards and produces 13 points.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

You would also think that 175 pass attempts and 1400+ yards would result in more than 6 TD passes.

The same amount as Cutler. And Sam Bradford. And David Garrard.

 

[NAHSTE]

Because Cutler has a sample size large enough where it's fair to bring up the averages.

You can't bring up Orton leading the league in yards, without bringing up the fact he also leads the league in attempts, or that he's 7th in yards per completion...tied with Mark friggin' Sanchez, who isn't allowed to throw anything beyond 10 yards.

Cutler is 2nd in the league in yards per completion, and 4th in yards per attempt, ahead of Orton in both categories. The one category where Orton has a huge edge on Cutler this year, yards, has got to be negated by his huge edge in attempts.

The formula for beating Denver has been the same for two years now. Let them have all of that underneath junk they throw (in place of the lack of running game), and dare Orton to beat you. To his credit, he's had some success throwing long at times this year, and is having a career year. But you also get games where he throws for 500 yards and produces 13 points.

I agree with this. This is the same reason I laugh when people say Matt Schaub is a great QB.

But Cutler still sucks.

 

[Senser81]

Because Cutler has a sample size large enough where it's fair to bring up the averages.

You can't bring up Orton leading the league in yards, without bringing up the fact he also leads the league in attempts, or that he's 7th in yards per completion, tied with Mark friggin' Sanchez, who isn't allowed to throw anything beyond 10 yards.

Cutler is 2nd in the league in yards per completion, and 4th in yards per attempt, ahead of Orton in both categories. The one category where Orton has a huge edge on Cutler this year, yards, has got to be negated by his huge edge in attempts.

Cutler is 4th in YPC (for whatever that is worth) and 2nd in YPA. Orton is 7th in YPC and 4th in YPA. Very similar numbers. Cutler's are slightly better, but he was much fewer pass attempts. Its easier to average 8 YPA in 100 attempts than in 200 attempts.

I don't understand how Orton's percentages can be almost the same as Cutler's, yet his yardage total is "negated" by his pass attempts. Do we negate Kobe Bryant's scoring because he takes a lot of shots? Do we negate Ichiro's 200-hits/season record because he gets a lot of at-bats?

 

[Senser81]

The formula for beating Denver has been the same for two years now. Let them have all of that underneath junk they throw (in place of the lack of running game), and dare Orton to beat you. To his credit, he's had some success throwing long at times this year, and is having a career year. But you also get games where he throws for 500 yards and produces 13 points.

And the Bears offense with Cutler averages 15.5 ppg, while the Bronco offense with Orton averages 21.8 ppg. Funny how that is.

 

[Bear Pand]

Some of the blame is def on Orton for getting all those yards against Indy but producing no points. At the same time though:

-McDaniels decided to keep going for it on 4th down.
-The Broncos have no running game which makes them predictable and easy to stop in the redzone.
-Maroney,Moreno,Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney..lol

I don't think Indy consciously decided to just let the Broncos take whatever they wanted underneath. Indy just cannot stop anyone. They had the same problem stopping underneath passes Sunday when Jax went on their game winning drive because Larry Coyer is a tard.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Cutler is 4th in YPC (for whatever that is worth) and 2nd in YPA. Orton is 7th in YPC and 4th in YPA. Very similar numbers. Cutler's are slightly better, but he was much fewer pass attempts. Its easier to average 8 YPA in 100 attempts than in 200 attempts.

I don't understand how Orton's percentages can be almost the same as Cutler's, yet his yardage total is "negated" by his pass attempts. Do we negate Kobe Bryant's scoring because he takes a lot of shots? Do we negate Ichiro's 200-hits/season record because he gets a lot of at-bats?

Because if Kenyon Dooling took just as many shots as Kobe, he still wouldnt score as many points, and if Skip Schumaker had 650 AB's every year, he still wouldnt sniff that record. However, if a QB throws 300 more passes than another QB (the current pace between Orton & Cutler right now), it's a virtual lock that he will have more yards. With the same amount of attempts, the ONE edge Orton has on Cutler this year evaporates.

The bottom line, is Orton is playing above his head this year, and Cutler is supposedly still being shitty Jay Cutlulz, and Cutler is still statictically better than Orton, nearly across the board. glen talks about empty Cutler stats on one hand, then brings up Orton's yards on the other. Wut?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

This is like defending stepping in dog shit to being shit on by a bird.

 

[Senser81]

This is like defending stepping in dog shit to being shit on by a bird.

Yeah, it reminds me of the time I spent 3 days arguing Jon Kitna vs. Trent Dilfer on MM.

 

[ralaw]

Yeah, it reminds me of the time I spent 3 days arguing Jon Kitna vs. Trent Dilfer on MM.

Dilfer has a Superbowl nuff' said.

 

[ram29jackson]

Yeah, it reminds me of the time I spent 3 days arguing Jon Kitna vs. Trent Dilfer on MM.

of course Dilfer is leaps and bounds better than Kitna. Why is that hard to understand?