So, what happened? (NFC West edition)

[Nukleopatra]

I disagree.

You put Kurt Warner in Dallas, and those players attitudes change for the better. He's a winner, he expects the people around him to be winners. You cannot compare the type of leader that Kurt Warner is, to Tony Romo - It's not even close. You stick Kurt Warner in Dallas last season, with that defense, and Dallas not only wins a playoff game, but quite possibly, plays Pittsburgh in the Superbowl.

Tony Romo's problem is, his leadership. He acknowledged that during the offseason, and insisted that he worked on and improved that part of his game. Well, with Kurt Warner, that wouldn't have been an issue.

Kurt Warner would make Wade Phillips look like a genius.

That's what hall of famers do.

 

[steeljake]

Sorry, that's bullshit.

People act like Dallas started sucking late in the year when Romo came around. Fact is, they've worn down in December for each of the past 10 seasons.

Kurt Warner wouldn't change the fact that the defense gave up consecutive 80 yard runs against Baltimore or that the team never got off the bus in Philly last year.

no, but warner would have had the game in a place that a long td run wouldnt have broken their back. if you add warner to that team with thise weapons and that defense he will put up 50 a game.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

no, but warner would have had the game in a place that a long td run wouldnt have broken their back. if you add warner to that team with thise weapons and that defense he will put up 50 a game.

And Warner would have been able to work with and teach those young WR's more. Fitz has said that Warner improved his route running more than anybody. That's an amazing acknowledgment to have coming from one of the best WR's in the league. Warner would have had Roy Williams, Austin and Crayton all performing like one of the best WR corps in the NFL by now.

 

[Rayman]

So we've now officially reached the point where his teammates' shortcomings are his fault?

lol damn. Now I really have heard it all.

 

[steeljake]

wow... no i havent anyways. the wide outs issues arent romo's problem in anyway shape or form. to be even more clear, the play calling and complete misues of the runninggame isnt his fault either.

 

[Nukleopatra]

And Warner would have been able to work with and teach those young WR's more. Fitz has said that Warner improved his route running more than anybody. .

*Bites tongue*

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

So we've now officially reached the point where his teammates' shortcomings are his fault?

lol damn. Now I really have heard it all.

You said it not me...I'd never say such a thing. What I did was show the difference in motivation, not talent/skill/athleticism or lack there of. Not in the least, and don't put words in my mouth in some elementary debate tactic.

wow... no i havent anyways. the wide outs issues arent romo's problem in anyway shape or form. to be even more clear, the play calling and complete misues of the runninggame isnt his fault either.

I really liked your writeup about the 'Boys problems, no need to defend yourself here now.

*Bites tongue*

I'm not sure what to say about *bites tongue*. These were Fitzs' words not mine. He said it in the playoffs last year in an interview. I remember hearing those words from his mouth.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Oh, I have no doubt Fitz said it.

Fitz is the man.

 

[Hasselbeck]

how? by stating facts? Bulger and green both did a good job replacing him number wise when he was hurt or released. fact is he hasn't won more than 9 wins in a sesaon since 2001.

Well.. unlike your QB.. he's won a playoff game ..

Hell last year he won 3 and should have won the final one.

All the NFC West hate is tired. I dealt with it for years when Seattle was on top.. a team can be really good (shocking I know!) even though the rest of the division is awful.

There's not a team in the NFC that's going to want to face the Cardinals come playoff time - you can take that to the bank. They're a scary team that has a propensity to get red hot and be practically unstoppable.

 

[Rayman]

You said it not me...I'd never say such a thing. What I did was show the difference in motivation, not talent/skill/athleticism or lack there of. Not in the least, and don't put words in my mouth in some elementary debate tactic.

You said:

Why not? AZ defense rallied behind the fact that they had a great QB who gave them a chance to win a playoff game. The Cards D was below average last year, but somehow in the playoffs they transformed like Optimus Prime to defend Earth.

Show me a player in the playoffs who knows he has a Super Bowl winning QB on one side of the ball and I'll show you one hell of a motivated football player.

When Romo has a reputation for being a choke artist, it doesn't really inspire or rally the troops.

Warner is not just great, but his reputation leads one to hope.

You're insinuating that the Cowboys players feel that Romo is a choker who'll let them down and as such, they don't play harder, a la the way the Cardinals' defense supposedly did because they had Kurt Warner.

The "reputation" thing is bogus. Yeah, Kurt Warner has a Super Bowl ring. He's also been a high quality starter for 10 years.

Romo's been starting for 3. 2006 he pretty much carries them to the playoffs and drops a ball on a FG. OK, fine. 2007, he has the best season for a QB in franchise history.

Now you're gonna sit there and have the gall to tell me that the defense, which played a pretty good game against the Giants but for 2 drives, somehow in the back of their minds were saying "Romo is a choker, we have no shot to win" and that's why they lost that playoff game?

That's why Patrick Crayton dropped a pass and stopped running on another route?

Kurt Warner would have inspired Jacques Reeves not to suck out loud on that last drive before halftime? He would have inspired Crayton to look the ball in and keep his feet moving?

Would he have inspired Jason Garrett to NOT inexplicably abandon the run game in the second half?

I've heard terrible takes on Tony Romo here, but that's easily the worst.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

You said:

You're insinuating that the Cowboys players feel that Romo is a choker who'll let them down and as such, they don't play harder, a la the way the Cardinals' defense supposedly did because they had Kurt Warner.

The "reputation" thing is bogus. Yeah, Kurt Warner has a Super Bowl ring. He's also been a high quality starter for 10 years.

Romo's been starting for 3. 2006 he pretty much carries them to the playoffs and drops a ball on a FG. OK, fine. 2007, he has the best season for a QB in franchise history.

Now you're gonna sit there and have the gall to tell me that the defense, which played a pretty good game against the Giants but for 2 drives, somehow in the back of their minds were saying "Romo is a choker, we have no shot to win" and that's why they lost that playoff game?

That's why Patrick Crayton dropped a pass and stopped running on another route?

Kurt Warner would have inspired Jacques Reeves not to suck out loud on that last drive before halftime? He would have inspired Crayton to look the ball in and keep his feet moving?

Would he have inspired Jason Garrett to NOT inexplicably abandon the run game in the second half?

I've heard terrible takes on Tony Romo here, but that's easily the worst.

Ah, the definative worstest statement, made popular by the fleeting bastards that don't know shit. How's that working out for ya? rhetorical...shut it.

Back to the subject at hand, you're the one spouting off shortcomings and specifics, not me. I could care less about precise plays made or not made. I don't know how else to say this, but it's all the little things that add up. I'm not even going to get into every play you mentioned here, because it really doesn't matter. You see if the entire team played just a little big better, with a little more enthusiasm, they might not have been in any of those situations. Haven't you ever heard of a team playing above their capabilities? It's magical, and Warner has a way of inspiring his teamates like that, rallying the troops as it were. It's not measurable, or predictable, but it is noticable when an entire team (Cards) steps up and plays better, as compared to an entire team ('Boys) does not.
It's obviously not that Warner calls plays for the defense, nor does he kick FG's or run the ball. But when an entire team can feel victory in their bones as if NOTHING can stop them, they play better. However, if that same team saw Romo as a choke artist, and started adding up all the ways they could lose, Romo's fault or not, that team would tend to play less inspired and more worried. I think that's the best way I can describe what's going on here. At the very very least Warner erases any doubt about QB play, and so each player has to worry less about that and can worry a little less. I hope I explained myself a little better. I don't want you to think I'm saying Romo has anything to do with a dropped pass or playcalling.

 

[Rayman]

Ah, the definative worstest statement, made popular by the fleeting bastards that don't know shit. How's that working out for ya? rhetorical...shut it.

Back to the subject at hand, you're the one spouting off shortcomings and specifics, not me. I could care less about precise plays made or not made. I don't know how else to say this, but it's all the little things that add up. I'm not even going to get into every play you mentioned here, because it really doesn't matter. You see if the entire team played just a little big better, with a little more enthusiasm, they might not have been in any of those situations. Haven't you ever heard of a team playing above their capabilities? It's magical, and Warner has a way of inspiring his teamates like that, rallying the troops as it were. It's not measurable, or predictable, but it is noticable when an entire team (Cards) steps up and plays better, as compared to an entire team ('Boys) does not.
It's obviously not that Warner calls plays for the defense, nor does he kick FG's or run the ball. But when an entire team can feel victory in their bones as if NOTHING can stop them, they play better. However, if that same team saw Romo as a choke artist, and started adding up all the ways they could lose, Romo's fault or not, that team would tend to play less inspired and more worried. I think that's the best way I can describe what's going on here. At the very very least Warner erases any doubt about QB play, and so each player has to worry less about that and can worry a little less. I hope I explained myself a little better. I don't want you to think I'm saying Romo has anything to do with a dropped pass or playcalling.

I just want to be perfectly clear on this.

If Kurt Warner was Dallas' QB, they'd have magically won a Super Bowl by now. That's what you're saying, is it not?


edit: Let me rephrase - They'd have had "more enthusiasm", and therefore would have won said championship.

 

[SethMode]

I just want to be perfectly clear on this.

If Kurt Warner was Dallas' QB, they'd have magically won a Super Bowl by now. That's what you're saying, is it not?


edit: Let me rephrase - They'd have had "more enthusiasm", and therefore would have won said championship.

I think you're really reaching with your posts RayManHCP42. I think all that anyone has said or alluded to is that if the Cowboys had Warner, they'd have a better (perhaps even much better) chance of winning in the post season and, potentially, winning a Super Bowl. The reason for this, as has been repeated ad nauseam, is that Warner has the leadership skills that Romo doesn't have (yet) and that intangibles like that can have an overarching effect on the entire team, making both sides of the ball play better. When you're talking about a team rife with discipline issues like Dallas, it's an understatement to say the leadership skills and dedication of Warner could be a benefit.

 

[Rayman]

I think you're really reaching with your posts RayManHCP42. I think all that anyone has said or alluded to is that if the Cowboys had Warner, they'd have a better (perhaps even much better) chance of winning in the post season and, potentially, winning a Super Bowl. The reason for this, as has been repeated ad nauseam, is that Warner has the leadership skills that Romo doesn't have (yet) and that intangibles like that can have an overarching effect on the entire team, making both sides of the ball play better. When you're talking about a team rife with discipline issues like Dallas, it's an understatement to say the leadership skills and dedication of Warner could be a benefit.

If "leadership" had been what people were pointing to in the posts I responded to, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

But that's not what was being alluded to. I point back to this post;

Show me a player in the playoffs who knows he has a Super Bowl winning QB on one side of the ball and I'll show you one hell of a motivated football player.

When Romo has a reputation for being a choke artist, it doesn't really inspire or rally the troops.

As if the team is somehow less motivated by the phony "choke artist" stigma that has been heaped on him. If anything, that should motivate a team more to have his back.

Motivation's not this team's problem.

 

[Tailback U]

So we've now officially reached the point where his teammates' shortcomings are his fault?

lol damn. Now I really have heard it all.

I'm not going to say that Romo is at fault for his teammates shortcomings but if you don't think that the Quarterback has the most influence on an entire team's attitude, work ethic, and ability then you obviously don't know how important the QB position is in football.

If "leadership" had been what people were pointing to in the posts I responded to, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

But that's not what was being alluded to. I point back to this post;



As if the team is somehow less motivated by the phony "choke artist" stigma that has been heaped on him. If anything, that should motivate a team more to have his back.

Motivation's not this team's problem.

I don't see how or why you are trying to even argue this. You really don't think that Dallas would or would have been a better overall team with a hall of famer playing Quarterback?

It's not just motivation. There is a reason why the Quarterback is generally believed to be the most important position in all of sports and the ultimate team leader. And it has nothing to do with talent or ability and everything to do with attitude and leadership. Teams feed off their Quarterback. A great QB has a direct impact on the entire team's toughness, determination, work ethic, chemistry, faith, resilience, etc., etc.

Just the "look of the eyes in the huddle" can be the difference between David Tyree or Santonio Holmes making a miraculous catch in the Super Bowl and Patrick Crayton dropping a routine pass over the middle. Obviously, there's no way to prove something like this because it is intangible and unmeasurable, but you constantly hear players refer to their Quarterbacks demeanor when asked about confidence and faith in high pressure situations.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

OT: I was one of the ones who drank the kooolaid on the 9ers and Singletary. I didnt realize they had zero offensive capability. Maybethey can fix that when they get McNabb in the off season.

There would be nothing to fix if Singletary had kept Martz. He wanted his 1971 offense, and he got it.

 

[Nukleopatra]

There would be nothing to fix if Singletary had kept Martz. He wanted his 1971 offense, and he got it.

If the 49ers had landed Warner, and they were 7-3, I wonder how many people would discredit him for having to beat the lowly Arizona Cardinals?

 

[Tailback U]

There would be nothing to fix if Singletary had kept Martz. He wanted his 1971 offense, and he got it.

I don't think Martz would have made any difference. The 49ers main issues on offense are youth at the receiver spots and a very weak and beat-up OLine.

Problem is that they thought their strength was in the OLine and backfield which is why they made the switch to a power-run offense in the off-season.

They are still struggling to find their identity and figuring out what their strengths are because they've had to deal with a lot of personnel changes in the offense this year.

Singletary is doing fine with what he has, anyone that thought the 49ers were going to make the playoffs with Shaun Hill starting at QB and Isaac Bruce as the primary WR definitely got sucked into the hype.

Not to mention they have a ton of holes on defense. They have no pass rush and nobody in the secondary even worth mentioning. Still they've managed to put forth a few impressive defensive efforts this season against some really good offenses in Arizona, Indy, and Minnesota.

They have 2 first round draft picks this year so it'll be interesting to see what positions they address first. They have to address DB, DE, OL. If I were a Niners fan I'd want them to just lose out at this point in hopes of getting Eric Berry.

This is premature, but that guy has potential hall of famer written all over him. Put him in a #20 jersey to pair up with Willis' #52 and you could have an Ed Reed/Ray Lewis like combo for the next 10 years.

 

[Tailback U]

If the 49ers had landed Warner, and they were 7-3, I wonder how many people would discredit him for having to beat the lowly Arizona Cardinals?

I wonder if bringbackjimmy would be saying that Michael Crabtree and Vernon Davis are the best players in the division and not Kurt Warner.

 

[DomePatrol]

I don't think Martz would have made any difference. The 49ers main issues on offense are youth at the receiver spots and a very weak and beat-up OLine.

Problem is that they thought their strength was in the OLine and backfield which is why they made the switch to a power-run offense in the off-season.

They are still struggling to find their identity and figuring out what their strengths are because they've had to deal with a lot of personnel changes in the offense this year.

Singletary is doing fine with what he has, anyone that thought the 49ers were going to make the playoffs with Shaun Hill starting at QB and Isaac Bruce as the primary WR definitely got sucked into the hype.

Not to mention they have a ton of holes on defense. They have no pass rush and nobody in the secondary even worth mentioning. Still they've managed to put forth a few impressive defensive efforts this season against some really good offenses in Arizona, Indy, and Minnesota.

They have 2 first round draft picks this year so it'll be interesting to see what positions they address first. They have to address DB, DE, OL. If I were a Niners fan I'd want them to just lose out at this point in hopes of getting Eric Berry.

This is premature, but that guy has potential hall of famer written all over him. Put him in a #20 jersey to pair up with Willis' #52 and you could have an Ed Reed/Ray Lewis like combo for the next 10 years.

I jizzed a little bit at that thought.