The 2011 Tim Tebow Tracking Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

You're embarassing yourself with your comments. 4/5 games, he's over 90 QB rating. Be honest W2BTD, you're wrong.

Are you legit nuts?

The less he throws, the better he performs.

So explain to me again how they are embarrassing him by asking him to throw less?????

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I just shake my head.

People consumed with statistics just don't get it and clearly never will.

It's like I said pages ago in this thread, it's not about statistics with Tebow. He will never have good looking statistics. He is the most unique player the league has seen in decades. He plays the QB position in such a way that evaluating him on stats makes no sense. Half the plays Denver runs with Tebow are designed QB runs. The passing plays are single read with one check down. He will never go 25-31 with 350 yards. The offense is not designed that way, and frankly, he cant do that anyway.

Bottom line is he produces TD's at a better than average rate, doesn't turn the ball over, and the team is 3-1. Kyle f'n Orton can throw for 300 meanigless yards all game long, but if he fails to get the team in the end zone, and turns the ball over, the team loses.

TD's + no TO's = wins. Doesn't matter how you achieve that.

...and anyone who fails to buy into the idea that a player can have a winning intangible, or that a player can make people around him better & play harder, has never played competitive sports.

Who cares?

Tebow: 7 passing TD's, 2 rushing TD's, 1 two-pt conversion. 1 INT, 0 lost fumbles. 56 points produced, ONE turnover.

Orton: 8 passing TD's, 0 rushing TD's, 0 two-pt conversions. 7 INT's, 0 lost fumbles. 48 points produced, SEVEN turnovers.

Tebow: 3-1

Orton: 1-4

Are you really going to argue in favor of something like more passing yards?

And don't you think the reason Denver is giving up less points might have to do with the fact that they aren't turning the ball over anymore?

I don't think you get it.

This is not meant to be condescending, but, have you watched the Broncos this year?

They completely revamped the offense to suit Tebow's skill set. He is not running the Orton offense. They are not simply handing the ball off more than they were before. You are simplifying the situation. They are essentially running a college style offense, low risk, grind it out, safe passing game. Orton could not run this offense. Just like Tebow could not run the Orton offense. Saying Denver would have had the same success under Orton by simply running more is false. The schematic change had a lot to do with it. And Orton can not run this scheme.

To expand on the scheme, and how it has improved Denver's running game, consider this.

Denver ran for 244 yards at a 4.4 average. They ran out of the shotgun 19 times, which is obscene in an NFL offense. They used four different positions (HB, QB, FB, FL) and six different players in those 19 runs, keeping the defense off balance. The long TD pass to Decker was out of the shotgun as well, a play that was set up by pounding the ball over and over out of that formation. The Tebow TD run was also out of the shotgun.

This scheme is why Denver is able to run the ball better under Tebow as opposed to Orton. They are essentially letting Tebow run the offense he ran in college.

Now, when you combine a grind it out running game that keeps the clock moving, and eliminate turnovers (Tebow has ONE INT in over 100 pass attempts, which is a league leading INT%, so it's not just "he doesn't throw the ball so doesn't throw INT's"), why is anybody surprised that the defense has played so much better? I'll tell you why.

It's a fucking illusion. It's the same defense. The same players. But when you don't turn it over, play the field position game, burn the clock, and keep the D off the field, well, you get it. Tebow does help the defense, where as Orton was killing the defense.

Will the league catch up? Probably. They always do. But I think Orton vs. Tebow has been put to bed for good. It's not even close, really.

dave, Tebow is succeeding because they aren't trying to use him like a traditional QB. That would likely fail miserably, and that would be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

The Broncos are using Tebow exactly how he should be used.

 

[DoubleDeuce]

If Tebow can throw the ball every play like he threw that pass to Decker, he'll be amazing.

Too bad he can't.

 

[Derrville]

Dave you make no sense.

 

[Cornelius]

Ray Rice is the best qb in the league. He's 1 for 1 for 1yd and a TD. His qb rating is 118.8.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

This thread was good before dave came in.

 

[NAHSTE]

Ray Rice is the best qb in the league. He's 1 for 1 for 1yd and a TD. His qb rating is 118.8.

It's a shame his team is hellbent on embarrassing him by only letting him throw one attempt.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Im really interested in seeing how long Denver can continue winning using Tebow this way. I was a huge fan of the wildcat when it first came out, and this is like a variation of it.

This doesnt seem like it should work for long though, eventually teams should be able to stack 8-9 players in the box & force Tebow to throw.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

:trollwoy:

Im really interested in seeing how long Denver can continue winning using Tebow this way. I was a huge fan of the wildcat when it first came out, and this is like a variation of it.

This doesnt seem like it should work for long though, eventually teams should be able to stack 8-9 players in the box & force Tebow to throw.

Me too.

For me, Denver is the most intriguing team right now in what otherwise is a pretty dry NFL.

EDIT: I have no idea why Ron Washington is in my post, but i'm leaving him there.

 

[Senser81]

buckle in boys, this thread is on the verge of being legendary

 

[shag773]

Dave was apparently liquored up last night. I'm imagining him waking up this morning, rubbing his eyes, and looking at these posts like a drunken 300LB hookup he woke up next to..

IMO, Denver's coach and management are doing everything in their power to embarrass Tebow ... and he keeps winning anyway. I feel bad for Tebow. He has no chance in Denver, because their leadership there simply doesn't believe in him. It may be a stretch to say this, but sometimes I wonder if Elway fears Tebow will become a bigger legend in Denver than Elway. Whatever IT is, Tebow has IT. OK, he's not a fundamentally sound passer, but he's a winner. Like Doug Flutie before him, teams shouldn't be so quick to fit a square peg into a round hole ... just let the winners do what they do.

IMO, they are using this playcalling strategy to embarass Tebow. What they didn't count on was it actually working.

Again, I am not saying Tebow is the prototypical perfect QB, but the kid is a winner. Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I'm getting at throwing 8 times in an entire game. This is a kid who has had 300-yard passing games in the NFL.
They're trying to imply he is only good for 5-8 passes a game.
They're trying to embarass him, IMO. Saying he's only good for 5-8 passes a game.
I'm sorry, but I disagree.
This is a kid who can pass too.

I absolutely agree he's not a 70% completion percentage QB, but he wins games.

What the Broncos are doing right now is designed just to embarass him.

Giving this kid 8 passes a game is just an attempt to embrass him. They want to make it seem like he's incapable of throwing a pass (which is ridiculous).

Warner ... you're brighter than this. You can see they want him to fail. They're running an embarassing offence ... you can see it.

If you pass 8 times in a game, you're running an offence designed to embarass the QB. Again, I'm not saying Tebow is a perfect QB, but the Broncos are doing everything in their power to make him look like anything but a QB.

Honestly, ask yourself - does Tebow come across as a credible NFL QB if they don't allow him to throw?

I absolutely agree, Obst. Seriously.
But I don't think what the Broncos are doing right now is designed to win ... they're doing it to embarass Tebow, and it's back-firing, because he's winning.

Elway and John Fox have nothing invested in Tebow. They don't care about his success, and IMO, Elway doesn't like Tebow's popularity.

They had to throw 39 times vs. the Lions. The game was a blowout.
21 times in today's NFL is a joke. The game is 60/40 pass/run on a conservative day.

Answer this honestly - do they see Tebow as their 2012 QB? Even after going 3-1?
Of course they don't.
This offence is simply a move to embarass him and move on.

The only caveat is the kid actually won 3 of 4. They didn't expect that.

I have Sunday Ticket. I watch all the games, and have been particularly interested in Tebow ... as a long-time Bills' fan who feels Flutie's pain.

He had to throw the most ... they were getting killed. And you can't put it all on him (clearly, he deserves some blame) but the D gets some here too.

Four of five games over 90.0 QB rating. Only game below it was a blowout.
Not sure what your point is.
If my team's QB is over 90 QB rating 4/5 games, I'm a happy dude.

You're embarassing yourself with your comments. 4/5 games, he's over 90 QB rating. Be honest W2BTD, you're wrong.

 

[ralaw]

It's like I said pages ago in this thread, it's not about statistics with Tebow. He will never have good looking statistics. He is the most unique player the league has seen in decades. He plays the QB position in such a way that evaluating him on stats makes no sense.

This reminds me of a Mike Vick comment circa 2005, yet people said Vick's best season was the one in which he put up the best QB stats (2010). Then I remember someone posting his career win\loss record and it was basically .500....much like Tebow's. The argument works, so as long as their stats remain average (Vick) to horrible (Tebow). In the end the QB has a role....much like every other player and if the QB can't perform in that role the team will struggle. The Broncos basically play 3 runningbacks and its cute, but in the end it will be shutdown.

Having said this I actually like Tebow and hope that he does well. Tebow after a win is way more interesting than Tebow after a loss.

 

[manchild24]

why is everyone knocking this Option O. When the Dolphins threw the Wildcat at the Pats it worked. It worked all season, it worked so well that other teams used it and still use it.

Granted Tebow is bigger then any other "running" qb in the league and can take some more hits then a Vick (who by the way played Sunday with 2 broken ribs)

 

[Hasselbeck]

Ray Rice is the best qb in the league. He's 1 for 1 for 1yd and a TD. His qb rating is 118.8.

He had nearly as many passes Sunday as he did rushing attempts

 

[Hasselbeck]

I absolutely agree, Obst. Seriously.
But I don't think what the Broncos are doing right now is designed to win ... they're doing it to embarass Tebow, and it's back-firing, because he's winning.

No.. they're doing it because when he throws it's often times embarrassing. By limiting the amount of times he throws, the Broncos offense actually moves the football.

It's like the Saints game-planning around Drew Brees throwing the football and not running the ball 40 times with Darren Sproles.. you play to your strengths.. Tim Tebow's strength is when he plays what should be his natural position - fullback.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

This reminds me of a Mike Vick comment circa 2005, yet people said Vick's best season was the one in which he put up the best QB stats (2010). Then I remember someone posting his career win\loss record and it was basically .500....much like Tebow's. The argument works, so as long as their stats remain average (Vick) to horrible (Tebow). In the end the QB has a role....much like every other player and if the QB can't perform in that role the team will struggle. The Broncos basically play 3 runningbacks and its cute, but in the end it will be shutdown.

Having said this I actually like Tebow and hope that he does well. Tebow after a win is way more interesting than Tebow after a loss.

I think there is a big difference between Vick and Tebow. Vick makes dynamic plays with his feet, usually on broken plays & scrambles. Tebow is running an offense we haven't seen in the NFL in decades.

The Tebow experiment has two issues.

One, can this offense produce enough points to beat good teams?

Two, can they add layers once teams catch up and adjust?

To the first question, grinding out the clock is a nice idea, but 14 points isn't going to beat quality teams in 2011.

The second question will be answered very soon, when teams decide to stack the box, play with three DB's, and challenge Denver to throw.

You almost have to play a perfect game to win this way. You can not have turnovers. You just can't. And Tebow has protected the ball thus far. You have to control clock and limit possessions, because unless the opposing defense allows multiple big runs, you are not going to score a lot of points.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Part of the reason I love watching Tebow, is the fact he brings some variety to what has become a bland copy cat game of indistinguishable offenses and schemes. It's the same reason I enjoyed watching HOU, ATL, & DET run the run and shoot during the late 80's/early 90's while everybody else was using H-backs and copying Joe Gibbs.

 

[Sharkweather]

Dave had to be trolling last night, good lord that was awful.

 

[Houston]

My VSN 10
People who provide entertainment
Warner
Nahste
Entertaining to laugh at
Dave

I love when these sort of things come together.

 

[Bigpapa42]

So Dave's logic is that the Denver Broncos management and coaching staff are not only risking their future with the team but their future in the NFL by trying to sabotage their season to embarass one individual player...? Unless the man was drunk or high while posting that, I think he has finally completely lost it.