The General Wrestling Thread

[Bigpapa42]

With Wrestle Mania coming up in barely a month, figured a general thread to discuss the wonderful world of professional wrestling might be fun.

I'm actually going to be at Wrestle Mania this year. Also going to the ROH show on the Friday and the Raw on Monday. Should be a very interesting weekend.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

So they decided to put the Big Show in the Main Event at Wrestlemania? Wowsers. I guess Vince didnt like that everyone on the net predicted that it was going to be Cena vs Edge in the Main Event. How Big Show just comes out of no where and is now getting a world title shot at the biggest event of the year, thats kinda beyond me. Im guessing Cena gets involved and its a triple threat. Regardless, Big Show being in the match is kinda lame.

 

[Bigpapa42]

The Big Show in the title match at WM? Uh, no thanks. Hopefully they're just messing with fans and we'll have some sort of swerve.

 

[Ravin]

You know there will be some thing where Cena can fight Show and the winner goes to Wrestlemania. There is no way they leave Cena out of a world title match at the biggest Wrestlemania.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Im sure Cena will still be in it but apparently the plan has been in place for a couple weeks to have Show fight Edge. IMO this is a brutal idea. If Cena ends up fighting Jericho in defense of the Legends or something, it'll be a HUGE let down.

I like the build-up to the HHHH-Orton match, but unfortunately a lot of hype and build-up wont save us from a boring ass match, lol. With all the personal shit going on in this match it should probably be no-DQ, but the Main Event of WrestleMania has always been a straight up wrestling match.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

HHH-Orton boring ass? Their work so far has been great, they had a **** Last Man Standing match when Orton took the belt from him. Their other work wasn't as great, but Orton got injured in the one, which ruined the rest of the match.

Mark Henry and Kane in MITB? Waste of two spots.This match is for spot monkeys to do their thing, big guys need to back the fuck up. I could definitely see MVP winning this year.

Triple H and Orton doing great work.... from an in-ring stand point? We must watch different shows..

 

[Ravin]

Shelton can't be trusted though to hold a world title. MVP can. MVP can talk on the mic, while the mic work has always kept Shelton back.

WWE has a lot of guys who will/can become top talent if just given the chance to. Morrison and Miz, MVP, Kofi (if he ever talks), CM Punk can run with them. A lot of good youngish guys (except MVP) who can become top talent and give us something new besides Cena/Orton/Edge/HHH. I actually am liking the Hardy's fighting each other because it makes them both Main event level stars.

 

[Bigpapa42]

The problem isn't so much whether those guys can be capable of headlining... its whether Vinnie Mac sees them as headliners. Because if he doesn't see it, it won't happen. Guys like Punk, Christian, and even MVP might never get the chance just because Vince doesn't see it in them.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Anyone have any ideas of what JBL could do to make history? I have no idea what it could be, but I think it has to do with an Intercontinental Title match.

The rumor I've read is that he's very close to retiring from active competition, which could mean he might retire as champion. Its only been done once, by Trish Stratus - obviously as the women's champion. If that's the plan, it would also make sense as to why JBL even won the IC title.

 

[Kia Kaha]

Now i watch Raw every friday night here in NZ (yeah i know its real dealayed lol) and it is all good stuff but sometimes i think the WWE has turned into utter crap, i really hope that one day in the next two years so hopefully next year or even this year (unlikely) they have a big battle royal with all the legends like Stone Cold, the rock etc and let them at it in a battle royal, it wouldnt be too much to ask as battle royals dont last long so it would be great and also they just need to make every wresltmanina macth exciting, there sohuld be another TLC match, those things rocked, there should be a hell in the cell match, there should be a casket match, a no DQ match, a cage match, a hardcore macth (like that 15 minute thing in 2000), a ladder match, a battle royal, a last man standing match,

Wrestlemania is no longer a spectacle IMO as the matches are so boring, WWE should just go all out and make it the best thing ever even it they do it just the once, i know it will never happen but man it would be cool

 

[Ravin]

Now i watch Raw every friday night here in NZ (yeah i know its real dealayed lol) and it is all good stuff but sometimes i think the WWE has turned into utter crap, i really hope that one day in the next two years so hopefully next year or even this year (unlikely) they have a big battle royal with all the legends like Stone Cold, the rock etc and let them at it in a battle royal, it wouldnt be too much to ask as battle royals dont last long so it would be great and also they just need to make every wresltmanina macth exciting, there sohuld be another TLC match, those things rocked, there should be a hell in the cell match, there should be a casket match, a no DQ match, a cage match, a hardcore macth (like that 15 minute thing in 2000), a ladder match, a battle royal, a last man standing match,

Wrestlemania is no longer a spectacle IMO as the matches are so boring, WWE should just go all out and make it the best thing ever even it they do it just the once, i know it will never happen but man it would be cool

Going all out though doesn't mean pulling a TNA and doing gimmick matches for every single match. In fact if they had every single one of those matches, you would find it to be boring because there is no break, and nothing is new. You go from one gimmick to the next and the gimmick is what is selling the match rather then the wrestlers.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Going all out though doesn't mean pulling a TNA and doing gimmick matches for every single match. In fact if they had every single one of those matches, you would find it to be boring because there is no break, and nothing is new. You go from one gimmick to the next and the gimmick is what is selling the match rather then the wrestlers.

I agree that WM doesn't quite seem as big anymore, and also that gimmick matches isn't way to go. I just think that the matches, for the most part, don't feel major. It feels like we've been here before...

Orton vs Triple H - the storyline makes it interesting, but the match has been done many times now.

Cena vs Edge vs Big Show - Cena and Edge has been done so many times in the past few years. Does adding the Big Show in make it any better really? Especially knowing that Cena is so likely to win to get "his" belt back. Predictable match in many ways.

Undertaker vs HBK - easy pick for best match, but its also been done. Not in awhile, but we're not seeing something new here.

Hardy vs Hardy - an interesting match that could turn out to be very very good.

Diva battle royal - eye candy.

Money in the Bank - could be good, but what the hell are Kane and Knox doing in there? This one looks a bit like a cluster-fuck, and as much as I'd like to believe the WWE is doing something smart with it, they likely aren't.

As relatively casual fan, there isn't one match on that card that makes me want to buy it. If I didn't have plans in place for months to attend, the card wouldn't be convincing me to go get tickets. Even just a couple of years ago, you had matches that felt like they were going to be something special. It just doesn't feel that way.

 

[Ravin]

I have a feeling that some how they may try and remove Big Show because of the stuff going on with Vickie, but then again, who would they have Show face on such short notice.

Everyone gets all mad at seeing the same matches again, but the thing is, this is WM25, a milestone of milestones. This isn't your normal WM, so they are going to want to make it as big as they can. When you look back at big WM, 25 will be there and it is headlined by Orton (biggest Heel) and Triple H (biggest face). I don't mind it at all having them fight again because I am a casual fan and I haven't seen them fight each other in over a year, so it isn't a big deal to me.

 

[Bigpapa42]

I have a feeling that some how they may try and remove Big Show because of the stuff going on with Vickie, but then again, who would they have Show face on such short notice.

Everyone gets all mad at seeing the same matches again, but the thing is, this is WM25, a milestone of milestones. This isn't your normal WM, so they are going to want to make it as big as they can. When you look back at big WM, 25 will be there and it is headlined by Orton (biggest Heel) and Triple H (biggest face). I don't mind it at all having them fight again because I am a casual fan and I haven't seen them fight each other in over a year, so it isn't a big deal to me.

I realize that Orton-Triple H is a main heel against a main face, but its still been done time and again. By quick count, they've had title matches at least four times on PPV since the start of 2007, not counting any multi-man matches. The storyline makes it somewhat interesting, but its repetitive.

The thing that has made Wrestle Mania such a marquee event is because it always featured the biggest matches. Matches that they built towards for months, sometimes almost the entire year. They had matches that had fans salivating. Just a few...

III - Hogan vs Andre + Savage vs Steamboat
IV - title tournament
V - Savage vs Hogan - built up for months with the Mega Powers split
VI - Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior
X - Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon ladder match - pretty unique at the time
XII - Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart - 60 minute Iron Man match
13 - Hart vs Austin - rare double turn
XIV - Austin vs Michaels - with Mike Tyson
XIX - Angle vs Lesnar

The two big title matches on the just don't carry that epic feel.

 

[Ravin]

I agree with that. WWE doesn't do any massive build up anymore. No 6-7 month long build up to a dream match we have wanted to see. It just seems as if they are running through the paces, finished No Way Out and got into Wrestlemania gear and started storylines for that. Hell look at the Cena/Edge/Show angle. It is just horrible I think for a Wrestlemania 25 main event match. The best they could come up with is Show and Vickie having some behind Edge fun, and Cena finds out and uses it as blackmail? Seriously WWE? This is your idea for Edge and Cena? -sigh-

 

[Bigpapa42]

I agree with that. WWE doesn't do any massive build up anymore. No 6-7 month long build up to a dream match we have wanted to see. It just seems as if they are running through the paces, finished No Way Out and got into Wrestlemania gear and started storylines for that. Hell look at the Cena/Edge/Show angle. It is just horrible I think for a Wrestlemania 25 main event match. The best they could come up with is Show and Vickie having some behind Edge fun, and Cena finds out and uses it as blackmail? Seriously WWE? This is your idea for Edge and Cena? -sigh-

One of the great weaknesses of the contemporary WWE style of booking is exactly that lack of long-term booking and storyline development. Its like they are unable to look beyond the next two months at any given point. For fans who grew up watching more standard booking, its just hard to to take. I mean, for as much as WCW did wrong, Bischoff managed to spend an entire year building up Hogan versus Sting... Now the match ended up sucking, but still, that's incredible booking restraint.

I guess the biggest issue I have is that WM feels moreso like any other PPV now.

 

[Bigpapa42]

BTW, TNA had their Destination X pay per view last night. Hopefully no one actually paid money to see it. I watched a few bits of it and it was brutal. Seriously, amongst the worst wrestling PPVs possible.

Its a crime how much TNA has killed off Samoa Joe. He used to be one of the best guys out there and now he's just... bleh. He just came back from some time off looking out shape, with a horrible new look. The whole Nation of Violence gimmick is terrible, especially the bit about having a machete. Using weapons like that crosses a line that mainstream wrestling should not cross. They had a post-match angle where Joe supposedly chased down Steiner, then they show him in the parking lot with blood on the machete... One of the worst and most tasteless segments I've seen in years, to be honest.

The Beer Money Inc versus Team 3-D was hyped up as titles-versus-careers, then has two stupid two endings.

The X Division match was not that great. The pre-match promos were longer than the match, I think. I don't TNA's need to fill up a PPV with promos like they're still trying to sell the PPV... People have bought it already!

The main event... Uhh... I'll just say that they had about fifteen minutes of pre-match promos for a 13 minute match that had a brutal ending. Poorly worked and not really exciting.

I don't see how TNA expect events like this to retain fans, let alone create new ones.

 

[JayDizzle]

Haven't seen the newer Samoa Joe stuff but then again, Joe hasn't been on TV in forever...

As for the poor booking decisions, it's easy to see that the old guys in the back are running shit.

Booker needs to retire because he's going nowhere in a feud with AJ Styles, a guy who should be in the Main Event Picture now.

Nash either needs to manage or GTFO if he doesn't want to book the younger guys who actually can still wrestle into high-profile matches.

Sting... just needs to retire.

Angle will probably need to be injured legit to be put out of the ring

Steiner is dead for all intensive booking purposes now so it doesn't matter.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Its really ironic, when you think about it... The entire Main Event Mafia except Angle was there when WCW was falling apart in the late 90s. Jarrett, too. Yet they are making many of the same mistakes that the WCW did.

I thought the point of the whole MEM storyline would be elevate some of the younger guys. So far, nada. Styles is still below here he has been in the past with TNA.

I recently read the "Death of the WCW" book, which is pretty facinating for anyone wrestling fan. The role that guys like Hogan and Nash played in the whole downfall was huge. And yet here they are again... I doubt Nash has the same level of control he did in WCW, where he was booking things for awhile.

As for Samoa Joe, its like they are trying to get him back to the 2005-2007 period, where he legitimately came across as a dangerous guy. Except they went a wee bit too far. Instead of being a silent but deady monster Samoan machine, he's a machete-wielding maniac killer with a fake face tatoo...

 

[Bigpapa42]

I remember watching TNA on fox sports net and it was fun but now it's just so hard to watch they don't use there wrestlers right. Sometimes i think i can write a better show than russo

You probably aren't wrong. Far too often, I just end up wondering what the hell TNA was trying to accomplish...