The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

The botching of Samoa Joe is historically bad. Words can't really put it in prospective.

This isnt some indy guy not getting pushed who probably wouldnt have been a star anyway, and dorks complaining about it. Joe was on a legit path to something great. It's mind boggling.

To a lesser extent, they destroyed AJ Styles too, when he was doing the Kurt Angle's half retarded dummy sidekick gimmick.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The botching of Samoa Joe is historically bad. Words can't really put it in prospective.

This isnt some indy guy not getting pushed who probably wouldnt have been a star anyway, and dorks complaining about it. Joe was on a legit path to something great. It's mind boggling.

To a lesser extent, they destroyed AJ Styles too, when he was doing the Kurt Angle's half retarded dummy sidekick gimmick.

They could restore AJ...I mean, just give him a legitimate run with a belt where he does what AJ does best.

Joe...damaged goods.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I think AJ Styles is like Sting. A guy who will always be cheered, but can't really draw serious money.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Sting drew money...but it came in blips.

Sting was rarely really pushed like an uber star (like an Austin or Hogan, or even a Flair, when he actually was) that got him into that upper echelon money...the few times he was, he drew big money for the time.

As for Joe...can't wait for him to go to the WWE, be Santino's rookie in NXT Season X, and be under the name of Meaty Maivia or Stout Solofa.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Sting drew money...but it came in blips.

Sting was rarely really pushed like an uber star (like an Austin or Hogan, or even a Flair, when he actually was) that got him into that upper echelon money...the few times he was, he drew big money for the time.

As for Joe...can't wait for him to go to the WWE, be Santino's rookie in NXT Season X, and be under the name of Meaty Maivia or Stout Solofa.

Lol@meaty maivia

Sting never drew a dime until he did the crow gimmick and popped the buyrate with Hogan at whatever PPV that was. One of the great myths is he was a draw previous to that. Kids liked hi, he sold some merch, but house show biz always dropped when he was champ, and he never did out of the ordinary ppv numbers.

 

[FedEx227]

Starrcade 97 is the PPV you're thinking of.

Nearly 2 years of buildup for a confusing, idiotic dusty finish.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Lol@meaty maivia

Sting never drew a dime until he did the crow gimmick and popped the buyrate with Hogan at whatever PPV that was. One of the great myths is he was a draw previous to that. Kids liked hi, he sold some merch, but house show biz always dropped when he was champ, and he never did out of the ordinary ppv numbers.

I'd have to redo some research (I recall doing some research on this topic back in the day with someone saying something similar), but I'm pretty sure Sting was a solid draw in spurts back in the day. I recall the early Halloween Havoc's featuring Sting at the top of the card drawing all-time highs. Sting v. Flair at the GAB was a big draw PPV for early WCW. Sting's late 80's, early 90's Starrcade's that he headlined drew rather well (if I recall, the one v. The Black Scorpion was rather big).

I'm not saying he was Austin or Hogan or even Flair, but Sting was a pretty good draw, IMO and IIRC, there are some numbers to back it up in regards to PPV buys.

Not certain about the house show money. There was a time he was feuding with Vader everywhere on every house show and I don't think that did too well, but that is out of the time frame I'm talking about of Sting being a decent draw. I'm talking more like 89/90/91 type time frame.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'd have to redo some research (I recall doing some research on this topic back in the day with someone saying something similar), but I'm pretty sure Sting was a solid draw in spurts back in the day. I recall the early Halloween Havoc's featuring Sting at the top of the card drawing all-time highs. Sting v. Flair at the GAB was a big draw PPV for early WCW. Sting's late 80's, early 90's Starrcade's that he headlined drew rather well (if I recall, the one v. The Black Scorpion was rather big).

I'm not saying he was Austin or Hogan or even Flair, but Sting was a pretty good draw, IMO and IIRC, there are some numbers to back it up in regards to PPV buys.

Not certain about the house show money. There was a time he was feuding with Vader everywhere on every house show and I don't think that did too well, but that is out of the time frame I'm talking about of Sting being a decent draw. I'm talking more like 89/90/91 type time frame.

They tried to push him to the moon, and presented him as this gigantic star, but it just never worked. That's why they always would give up and go back to Flair or Luger.

I'm not saying the guy was a business killer, but he never really moved the needle in those days. He would get big reactions from live crowds, but it never translated.

He had two legitimate periods where he was a difference maker - the one big buyrate with Hogan after the long crow build up, and two, when he first came to TNA he got them over the hump and the ratings went from .8's and .9's to over 1.0, although the PPV's didn't move at all until Angle showed up.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Something that is just truly astounding right now, is TNA has Hogan, Flair, RVD, Hardy, Sting, Nash, Angle, Kennedy, Joe, Styles, 3D, etc etc etc on the payroll, national TV, and is bottoming out at like 10,000 PPV buys. Think about that for a second. ROH peaked at something like 3,000 with taped shows, no stars, no TV whatsoever, and a fraction (fraction isnt a strong enough word) of the payroll. Dragon Gate USA did like 1,000-2,000 for their first PPV without any sort of history, TV, or ROH cult following.

Is pathetic a strong enough word? I mean, they are an epically bad company. This is worse than WCW at the end.

Can you imagine if Paul Heyman was Bob Carter's son?

 

[IamMedellin]

at its worst didnt wCw avg. about 40,000 buys?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

at its worst didnt wCw avg. about 40,000 buys?

Yeah.

Even ECW peaked close to 100k with a fraction of the star power and weak TV pre TNN, and with competition from two mega companies at the time. TNA has comp from only one mega company, that is doing half the PPV business they were doing when ECW was around.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

at its worst didnt wCw avg. about 40,000 buys?

Yeah, but wCw had a monster following, it was a devoted following in the South.

TNA is just a super mark chica with pops money being taken advantage of by all of the old WCW wrestlers that need jobs with hilarious results.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

They tried to push him to the moon, and presented him as this gigantic star, but it just never worked. That's why they always would give up and go back to Flair or Luger.

I'm not saying the guy was a business killer, but he never really moved the needle in those days. He would get big reactions from live crowds, but it never translated.

He had two legitimate periods where he was a difference maker - the one big buyrate with Hogan after the long crow build up, and two, when he first came to TNA he got them over the hump and the ratings went from .8's and .9's to over 1.0, although the PPV's didn't move at all until Angle showed up.

It couldn't have possibly been because WCW was going through numerous turnover in the creative department

 

[SHOGUN]

WOOOOOOOOOOOT~

HAMADA IS FINALLY BACK ON TV.

 

[SHOGUN]

Hamada/Wilde vs. TBP. Holy fuck is this opening match bad. I was excited to finally see Hamada again and I get this shit? Lacey is hot garbage in the ring, but it looked like she's had ZERO training and it is really accentuated when she's forced to go against someone like Hamada (or any half decent wrestler). The entire match was pretty cringeworthy. Having Wilde and Hamada as champions seems to be a pretty odd pair, but they can wrestle and those belts don't really mean shit anyway.

MCMG vs. Beer Money in Ultimate X match. Amazing. Matches like this makes these two hours worth it. :fap:

 

[SHOGUN]

A simple question. How in the hell does Pro Wrestling Illustrated come up with their rankings?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

A simple question. How in the hell does Pro Wrestling Illustrated come up with their rankings?

Back in the 80's and 90's, promotions would ask or even pay PWI to feature guys they wanted to push or be precieved as stars. One guy the Apter mags would always push as a monster star on behalf of the promotion was Sting. Another guy was Sabu, who Bill Apter personally loved, so he would give him covers and stories pushing him all the time.

Those year end awards issues were worked. They would give Most Popular to Sting during the hight of Hulkamania, and do other wacky shit based on who kissed there ass the most or paid the most money.

Indy geeks would send in profiles & cash to get on the PWI 500 list, because it was great exposure & abosolute gold for getting booked for the next year.

I read a great story about the inner workings of the Apter mags a few years ago, and it absolutely crushed my childhood memories of those fucking magazines, but alot of it made sense in hindsight.

 

[IamMedellin]

ric flair :smh:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7iRUUzR80&feature=player_embedded#"]YouTube- ‪Street Fight: Ric Flair vs. Jay Lethal‬‎[/ame]!

 

[IamMedellin]

Jericho on TNA's ECW ppv

They got nothing else going on, their booking is horrendous, and I say that with the utmost respect for those guys and I most desire to see them succeed, but it’s crap. You know it’s crap, they throw stuff up against the wall, and it’s so hard to watch when it doesn’t have to be. They’re doing 10,000 buys on Pay-Per-View, so let’s bring back The Sandman & Sabu, and maybe they could do 30,000 buys. Go for it; maybe they can do something out of it. Having a guy like Tommy Dreamer involved behind the scenes might be what they need. Get rid of the same old stuff that they have been doing over & over, and bring in someone with a new perspective, and maybe that will help them get their heads out of there asses and just making some money instead of doing this as sort of a vanity project that’s been treading water for the last four years.”

 

[SHOGUN]

Soooo the one TNA card I'd be willing to drop money on is going to be given away on TV for free to play the background for a fucking card that only has two confirmed matches - Tommy Dreamer/Raven and Rob Van Dam/Jerry Lynn.

bama: