The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

Not exactly, 8 million is too high over the last decade. Put it this way, the most watched/highest rated match/segment in American pro wrestling history was from June 1999 when Austin beat Taker for the title.

Wait, isn't it Hogan/Andre with the Hebner screwjob? Or the Mankind match during the Super Bowl halftime?

 

[EmpireWF]

Wait, isn't it Hogan/Andre with the Hebner screwjob? Or the Mankind match during the Super Bowl halftime?

June 28, 1999: A match where Steve Austin won the WWF title from The Undertaker in Charlotte drew the largest rating and audience to ever witness a pro wrestling match or for that matter, any pro wrestling segment, ever on U.S. cable television. The match did a 9.5 rating, which was 10.72 million viewers. Perhaps the most impressive is that one out of every six television sets in the U.S. that had cable that was on during that time was watching that match. Because for more than a decade, Vince Russo has made it a talking point to say how the “The Is Your Life: Rock,” segment was the highest rated segment in history (it did an 8.4 quarter), to show how skits outdraw matches, it’s become a talking point how that was the highest rated segment in Raw history. Actually there were a handful of different quarter hours that beat that total, including most of the second hour of the May 10, 1999 show.

-Meltzer

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

A match where Steve Austin won the WWF title from The Undertaker in Charlotte drew the largest rating and audience to ever witness a pro wrestling match or for that matter, any pro wrestling segment, ever on U.S. cable television.

Cable.

That would eliminate the Mankind match (that was on MTV), but i'm almost positive the Hogan/Andre on NBC did significantly more viewers.

 

[EmpireWF]

Ah yeah, the match was the highest rated cable. Hogan/Andre did a 15.2 rating on NBC.

The War to Settle the Score did a 9.2 on MTV in 1985.

 

[JimLeavy59]

Not exactly, 8 million is too high over the last decade. Put it this way, the most watched/highest rated match/segment in American pro wrestling history was from June 1999 when Austin beat Taker for the title.

Combined with Nitro, the total pro wrestling audience watching Monday nights at the height of the war was over 11-12 million. It dwindled a bit when WCW turned into total shit and then after it died, a large sector of the wrestling audience never returned.

For the majority of the past decade, WWE's top number has been around the 5 million mark (give or take a few hundred thousand). Ironically, the modern WWE audience skews older (much older than their audience during their most successful period) as far as TV & PPV viewers go but they market towards kids who are the bulk of their live event business. They're leaving a ton of money on the table with their current format, but at the same time, I guess they're happier being known as kid friendly and in bed with companies like Mattel.

Thats what I don't get the WWE is leaving so much money on the table just to be PG and sell crappy action figures, It makes no sense and their stock is also falling the more we get into this PG-era. When Linda loses her upcoming election I really hope the WWE starts to have a borderline TV-14 product.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

ROH should sign Washington to manage Caprice Coleman & that other black guy. That team is so dry. Washington can do a parody of himself and run around the ring cutting uncouth jokes. It would be fantastic.

When I read that AW was released I thought the SAME EXACT THING. A parody of himself as a promoter that cuts awful jokes and lines. It would go over like gold.

We really need to get involved in writing wrestling storylines.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Thats what I don't get the WWE is leaving so much money on the table just to be PG and sell crappy action figures, It makes no sense and their stock is also falling the more we get into this PG-era. When Linda loses her upcoming election I really hope the WWE starts to have a borderline TV-14 product.

Trying to figure out the business logic of the WWE will just make your head hurt. They are alienating a significant part of their fanbase and they have to be doing so knowingly. But holding out hope that it will change is just gonna leave you frustrated. After Linda lost in 2010, lots of long-time fans convinced themsleves the WWE would move the product back a bit. Didn't happen. Since there is more involved than just Linda's political aspirations, it may not when she loses this year.

The the WWE problems aren't limited to being PG. You can create a PG product and still book things so that the stories and characters will appeal to those who aren't children. The WWE doesn't and aren't trying to. They are doing everything targeted at 8 year olds. As adults who want some degree of logic and continuity, a tiny bit of depth to characters, and actual wrestling... we aren't who they are trying to appease.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

IT'S BACK!

W2BTD'S "How many of these mid card geeks can you name?" GAME!

 

Alright, I won last time...let's see how I do for Round 2

Jack Swagger
Rey Mysterio
The FCW referee is in the middle - I don't know his name, but he's one of their main ones.
Epico
Kofi Kingston
Santino
Referee Mike Chioda
Zack Ryder

Dude in the way back, I'd guess Evan Bourne from the haircut.

Only guy I can't fully identify is the gook in the foreground...the dudes without faces, I can't.

 

[FedEx227]

PG doesn't mean it has to be illogical, stupid and boring. PG is perfectly fine, most the TV-14 things were terrible. Does it really matter if HHH is allowed to make a penis joke? Cena/Punk was PG and it was awesome.

 

[EmpireWF]

Isn't that Primo in the back, not Bourne?

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

In the midst of all the talk about the viewership...has anyone ever actually thought that, those fans are gone and simply never coming back?

Wrestling was regional / territorial for most of its history...the people that watched, watched THEIR BRAND and rolled with it. When it died out, they didn't, for the most part, start watching another promotion to fill the void. For all discussion purposes, once the territory died, the fans went with it.

WCW, like other territories, had its viewership that was through the roof at one point and that boom period in wrestling saw a lot of casual viewers jump on board but the WCW/WWF audience saw a lot of crossover. Once WCW dwindled down and died, much of the audience did too, and in the WWE product that survived, the numbers dwindled down to what we have now.

I'm of the belief that, the market share is the market share and there isn't much growth to be had right now. There isn't a surging market or territory that could yield a boom, and there isn't a market that will come back to the WWE for no reason. As a national brand, it simply doesn't have the appeal that niche or territorial brands provide that could grow an audience like it wants.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Isn't that Primo in the back, not Bourne?

It could be.

 

[Bigpapa42]

PG doesn't mean it has to be illogical, stupid and boring. PG is perfectly fine, most the TV-14 things were terrible. Does it really matter if HHH is allowed to make a penis joke? Cena/Punk was PG and it was awesome.

Exactly. PG becomes the buzzword of blame but its really not what the problem is. WCW was pretty much PG through its entire Nitro run and they could put together some stuff that obviously appealed to adults rather than kids. They also put together some stuff that appealed to no one but that's besides the point.

Look at the Diva's. The current group is fucking dire. Its not because they suck in the ring (which they do) as that really wouldn't matter. Its not that they aren't sexy or don't show skin - there is cleavage and butt check if that's all you want. But the division as a whole is completely redundant at this point because fans are given absolutely zero reason to care. How would one define the character of Kelly Kelly or Alicia Fox? Its like a writer made the barest outline of a character and that's it. There is really nothing there. That's pretty much the whole division. There is no reason that fans should care about these women. So most of us don't. Its not to say the Diva's would ever be draws or anything, but the complete lack of effort by the WWE is symptomatic of the bigger problem.

 

[partners panic]

Ricky Marvin is the guy with his hands on the Shoulders of Rey and Swagger.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Exactly. PG becomes the buzzword of blame but its really not what the problem is. WCW was pretty much PG through its entire Nitro run and they could put together some stuff that obviously appealed to adults rather than kids. They also put together some stuff that appealed to no one but that's besides the point.

Look at the Diva's. The current group is fucking dire. Its not because they suck in the ring (which they do) as that really wouldn't matter. Its not that they aren't sexy or don't show skin - there is cleavage and butt check if that's all you want. But the division as a whole is completely redundant at this point because fans are given absolutely zero reason to care. How would one define the character of Kelly Kelly or Alicia Fox? Its like a writer made the barest outline of a character and that's it. There is really nothing there. That's pretty much the whole division. There is no reason that fans should care about these women. So most of us don't. Its not to say the Diva's would ever be draws or anything, but the complete lack of effort by the WWE is symptomatic of the bigger problem.

That would be 95% of the roster.

Any wrestler that was at least a midcard mainstay in wrestling throughout its history, you could pinpoint penultimate moments or matches where you could point to their character evolving or a feud they've had or a promo that has changed them in some way, good or bad. It was some change in character at some level.

The WWE does not do this.

There are very few guys on the roster that have evolved over time into an actual character.

You have top talents that do...sure. CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, John Cena, H's, 'Taker...but look at the top guys that have simply not evolved at all...

Alberto Del Rio
Jack Swagger
Kofi Kingston
Dolph Ziggler
Sheamus (sans his H's feud when he first started)

Those are all to guys or should be top guy mainstays. Can't recall anything in regards to story or feud that make any of these guys have legitimate character...and I like some of these guys a lot...like Ziggler and Sheamus, I think two very solid, good wrestlers, good characters, good looks...but, haven't exactly given me a reason to really engage in one of their feuds. Kingston should be a mainstay around the IC or US titles...he's still the same kid friendly goofy Kofi. Swagger should be an uppercard Kurt Angle-lite...he's still the mush mouthed goofy heel. Del Rio has never given anyone a reason to care about him, at all.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Agree Larry. A few of the midcard guys end up getting a little bit, like Ziggler. But they are still so fucking generic and bland.

I just don't get the approach by the E. Does Vince just really think it doesn't matter at this point? Have they forgotten how to add any character? Or do they really think that if they don't keep things on a third grade level, the kiddies will tune out?

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

It is a combination of Vince not caring and it permeates to everyone else not caring about anyone above a certain level along with the top guys in creative essentially forgetting or dropping things before they even start.

The A.W. deal is a very good example of it.

He starts his recruiting bit...drops it...becomes a manager...and he says something someone on the corporate level doesn't like...he's gone and now the PTP'rs are going to sent back to developmental, surely.

They just stop, start, and restart, and stop shit all of the time on the lower end. Feuds don't develop at the lower levels and this character developmental and the ability to get yourself over just doesn't happen.

The only true undercard talent to get himself over in recent years was Zack Ryder and we all know that story.

 

[JimLeavy59]

WWE relases Diva Sofia Cortez, She had some talent I liked her work in the ring gotta love that chicks like her get released but Alicia Fox and Kelly Kelly are still around.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

IT'S BACK!

W2BTD'S "How many of these mid card geeks can you name?" GAME!

 

OK, there are 11 men in the photo.

The easy ones are Santino, Epico, Swagger, two strike Wellness policy Rey, Kofi Kingston.

A couple of you got ref Mike Chioda. He's at the top and appears to be very drunk, throwing gang signs. So that's six.

panthers panic got the guy in the middle, that's Ricky Marvin of NOAH.

The guy directly behind Ricky Marvin, with the head turned whose entire face is obscured, is New Japan's MVP. Eight down, three to go.

The asian guy in the orange shirt? I have no idea. The are in Japan. Could be a New Japan or NOAH office guy or young boy hanging out with Marvin/MVP, could be a fan, could be a WWE hired liason to help the guys around town, I have no clue. I don't recognize him.

Dude all the way in the back (can only see his hair) is probably Primo. Makes sense because Epico is there, same hair, looks like he's brown, etc. Can't confirm, could be a waiter for all I know, but I think it's Primo.

As for the guy in the backwards hat in between Epico & MVP, there is much debate. Some say Ziggler. I don't see it. Looks like Shane Helms, but obvioulsy that makes no sense. Ryder? That would be my best guess. But nobody knows for sure.

 

[JimLeavy59]