The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

Sheamus should be a heel. He's cheesy as a face.

Daniel Bryan should be an odds defying face, but not in the 'banana peel' way he was at first. A valiant, hard working, 'I can beat anyone' sort of character who believes he's the best. Like the brief "snap or tap" run he had right after NXT. That's his best role, he'd blow up.

Randy Orton should always be a heel. Always.

The Funkasaurus Guy should face Tensai next, but before the match, double clothesline the two skanks, while Tensai kills Mr. Miyagi or whatever. Then they should form a killer monster tag team, go to Smackdown, and completely destroy all of the flippy guys to set up a tag title match with Kingston & R-Truth.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

But see, The Funkasaurus Guy should still do the dancing, only now he does it with a really mean looking scowl, while Tensai rubs his hands together and nods in approval (you know, because he's japanese, and that's what japanese heels do - think Mr Fuji).

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Oh, i've got one more.

Damian Sandow should beat Sheamus and hold the title for like a million years.

 

[JayDizzle]

Beth Phoenix.

Intercontinental Champion.

Heath Slater, of the surprising success of his newest hit single, decides that he doesn't like the idea of a woman holding the title so he fights her.

Battle of the Sexes ensues with Phoenix kicking his ass.

It's not like we haven't seen it before, right? :kobe:

 

[s@ppisgod]

The Attitude era is vastly overrated, even though I loved it. I'm currently in Dec 96 of re-watching WCW from the start of Nitro to 1999. I do remember it as being a lot better. I'm already growing tired of the NWO push, and the mid-upper card had a lot of crap. The Mauler and Jim Powers and Mongo and Jeff Jarrett and Craig Pittman and Ice Train. And crappy gimmicks like the Yeti and Loch Ness and all the continuing Dungeon garbage. Johnny Grafetti was a terrible gimmick, but I had no idea that he was in the Heavenly Bodies, who I remember as being very good in their short WWF run. But it's really only 25-35 entertaining minutes out of 2 hours. The cruiserweight matches are still gold after all these years.

The WWF holds up a looooot less from watching old Raws on 24/7. It's like watching mid-90s Jerry Springer. Raunchy, low brow stuff just doesn't holdup well. The mic skills are still great, but there's a lot that doesn't play well years after that was great to watch live. The matches though, were by and large terrible.

In the end, I think it's just about taking the product seriously. I think the WWE going back to an Attitude era direction could be worse TV than it is now, which is saying a lot. They need a more adult-oriented direction, and you can do that without the T and A and over the top cussing that they so heavily relied on. The Punk MITB storyline was adult while not being over the top.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The Attitude era is vastly overrated, even though I loved it. I'm currently in Dec 96 of re-watching WCW from the start of Nitro to 1999. I do remember it as being a lot better. I'm already growing tired of the NWO push, and the mid-upper card had a lot of crap. The Mauler and Jim Powers and Mongo and Jeff Jarrett and Craig Pittman and Ice Train. And crappy gimmicks like the Yeti and Loch Ness and all the continuing Dungeon garbage. Johnny Grafetti was a terrible gimmick, but I had no idea that he was in the Heavenly Bodies, who I remember as being very good in their short WWF run. But it's really only 25-35 entertaining minutes out of 2 hours.

When I tell people I hated the Attitude Era, and that I largely checked out of following WWE closely during that time, they react like i'm crazy. I thought WCW was a far superior product at the time, with the loaded undercard. WCW always had the stronger undercard, while WWE had the stronger main events. But since I was never really into guys like Triple H, Rock, Austin, Undertaker, and since the undercard was mostly trash, WWE really didn't have much for me.

Looking back, the TV was brutal. Those RAW's from that era are truly terrible.

Of the three, WCW holds up much, much better 15 years later than WWE or ECW.

 

[FedEx227]

I think of them fondly because that's the era of wrestling I grew up in but having rewatched PPVs and Raws from that era, it's awful. I say the same thing about ECW. It probably made a lot more sense in the 90s but it's not good TV, it's largely stupid.

Give me 1992 WWF over 1998 anyday. 1999 is probably my least favorite year in wrestling, just nothing really exciting at any point. Loved 2000 and the first part of 2001 though from WWF's perspective.

 

[s@ppisgod]

When I tell people I hated the Attitude Era, and that I largely checked out of following WWE closely during that time, they react like i'm crazy. I thought WCW was a far superior product at the time, with the loaded undercard. WCW always had the stronger undercard, while WWE had the stronger main events. But since I was never really into guys like Triple H, Rock, Austin, Undertaker, and since the undercard was mostly trash, WWE really didn't have much for me.

Looking back, the TV was brutal. Those RAW's from that era are truly terrible.

Of the three, WCW holds up much, much better 15 years later than WWE or ECW.

It's sad though, because WCW could have had a good, if not outright better, main event scene. But with flubs like the DDP/Goldberg Havoc match, which was great, but cut off on PPV and probably lost them fans just so Hogan had enough time to get his win back. The infamous Starrcade 97 payoff, or lack thereof. And the Fingerpoke match, which the crowd actually really wanted to see. No one likes to remember it that way, because Nash was a douche, but the Wolfpack (Nash especially) was crazy over

WCW holds up more because it was grounded in reality, and they had guys with really cutting edge in-ring work. WWF was so cartoonishly over the top that it ages incredibly fast over a short period of time. Meanwhile, something like Owen/Bret could still be very entertaining today, because of the realism and the pace. The pace of a lot of matches in WCW was usually pretty good, where as WWF was still very archaic. Very slow and deliberate. It still somewhat is. *cough*Orton*cough*.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The Attitude Era is remembered for a few things...

Steve Austin v. Vince McMahon clips...15m Austin segments on 2h RAWs all of a suddenly made RAW epic.
The Rock
The nWo...which really was only good until October...once Piper showed up
WCW's Cruserweights
ECW clips.
GOLBERG!!! RAWR!

When taken in samples...sounds like the Attitude Era was loads of awesome. Because all of that shit was awesome.

But what they don't remember is...

The countless WCW B-flick level gimmicks.
The countless WWF B-flick level gimmicks.
The nWo never getting their comeuppance and shuffling 3/4 of the roster in the stable.
The WCW main event being absolutely putrid.
ECW toiling in obscurity after all of the major stars left for the WWE and WCW.
Russo's Crash Booking with short, shit matches, lots of corny backstage vignettes and gimmicks and 25m long promos after the "Rock This Is Your Life" segment got a major spike in ratings.

It should be no shock that the WWE had their greatest PPV just weeks after the Attitude Era. The Attitude Era had a lot of awesome moments...but on the whole...people kind of forget how bad things were.

I kind of like the WWE era right after the Invasion Angle...the Smackdown Six era was pretty good WWE TV, IMO. Pre-Attitude Era (using Survivor Series 97 as a benchmark) was pretty awesome with The Hart Foundation, Austin pre-Vince overload, Brian Pillman, Goldust, Birth of Austin 3:16, Bret v. Owen, Hart v. Michaels pre-Montreal, first go-around of Mankind-Undertaker, Michaels beastly 1996 run, Austin-Hart, et al. I also prefer WCW before Hogan showed up and ECW before it became mainstream.

Attitude Era was a bit before the internet really went HAM with wrestling...so it seemed like there was never more wrestling available to the masses...couple it with Russo-tastic booking...and, a lot of the shit is so forgettable and happened so much, that people forget it happened...

The good stuff was awesome. The bad stuff was a lot more frequent than people remember it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Listening to Gabe Sapolsky on with Bryan Alvarez.

He said with ECW Arena closing down, he can't find building to run in the northeast. BB King's in New York doesnt want them back because they said the wrestling fans didnt buy enough food or alcohol. ACE Arena in Jersey closed down. His building in Boston has new owners who wont answer his emails.

Sorta explains why EVOLVE is running in front of 25 people in Florida and North Carolina.

 

[FedEx227]

It's amazing that 1998 WWF was as successful as it was when you look at how big of a loss Bret Hart and HBK within months of one another was. I'd imagine we'd think of the era much more fondly if we still had those 2 awesome workers, in their primes, competing, engaging in feuds, etc. When you really look at it WWF exploded when Austin was headlining PPVs with Dude fucking Love (no offense but c'mon). Really shows just how powerful the story of Austin/McMahon and still at that point Undertaker/Kane was. The rest was a giant pile of shit.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Listening to Gabe Sapolsky on with Bryan Alvarez.

He said with ECW Arena closing down, he can't find building to run in the northeast. BB King's in New York doesnt want them back because they said the wrestling fans didnt buy enough food or alcohol. ACE Arena in Jersey closed down. His building in Boston has new owners who wont answer his emails.

Sorta explains why EVOLVE is running in front of 25 people in Florida and North Carolina.

A few of my boys up in Jersey have made mention that there aren't many joints holding Indy wrestling these days and they haven't been to a show in some of the regular spots in a while.

Ol boy should at least look into the random Moose Clubs.

 

[EmpireWF]

1992 WWF > anything

It's amazing that 1998 WWF was as successful as it was when you look at how big of a loss Bret Hart and HBK within months of one another was. I'd imagine we'd think of the era much more fondly if we still had those 2 awesome workers, in their primes, competing, engaging in feuds, etc. When you really look at it WWF exploded when Austin was headlining PPVs with Dude fucking Love (no offense but c'mon).

That's a testament to how fucking red hot the business was at the time when you have over 10 million people tuning in on some Monday nights to watch pro wrestling.

Say what you want about the helter skelter nature of those Attitude Era RAWs....those crowds are sooooooo hot. They make the modern crowds look like they're filled with old church going women (and not the ones who'd go to southern wrasslin in the day to boo the fuck out of heels).

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

A few of my boys up in Jersey have made mention that there aren't many joints holding Indy wrestling these days and they haven't been to a show in some of the regular spots in a while.

Ol boy should at least look into the random Moose Clubs.

EVOLVE is in Flyers Skate Zone in Vorhees this Saturday, where the Flyers practice. Its a double header with CZW, so he didnt say this, but obviously the cost of running that building is pretty high since they are chopping it up.

He's got something big planned for this WrestleCon. He keeps hinting that something large is culminating there. And not in a promoter speak sort of way. He's been cryptic on twitter about it, too.

 

[s@ppisgod]

The Attitude Era is remembered for a few things...

Steve Austin v. Vince McMahon clips...15m Austin segments on 2h RAWs all of a suddenly made RAW epic.
The Rock
The nWo...which really was only good until October...once Piper showed up
WCW's Cruserweights
ECW clips.
GOLBERG!!! RAWR!

When taken in samples...sounds like the Attitude Era was loads of awesome. Because all of that shit was awesome.

But what they don't remember is...

The countless WCW B-flick level gimmicks.
The countless WWF B-flick level gimmicks.
The nWo never getting their comeuppance and shuffling 3/4 of the roster in the stable.
The WCW main event being absolutely putrid.
ECW toiling in obscurity after all of the major stars left for the WWE and WCW.
Russo's Crash Booking with short, shit matches, lots of corny backstage vignettes and gimmicks and 25m long promos after the "Rock This Is Your Life" segment got a major spike in ratings.

It should be no shock that the WWE had their greatest PPV just weeks after the Attitude Era. The Attitude Era had a lot of awesome moments...but on the whole...people kind of forget how bad things were.

I kind of like the WWE era right after the Invasion Angle...the Smackdown Six era was pretty good WWE TV, IMO. Pre-Attitude Era (using Survivor Series 97 as a benchmark) was pretty awesome with The Hart Foundation, Austin pre-Vince overload, Brian Pillman, Goldust, Birth of Austin 3:16, Bret v. Owen, Hart v. Michaels pre-Montreal, first go-around of Mankind-Undertaker, Michaels beastly 1996 run, Austin-Hart, et al. I also prefer WCW before Hogan showed up and ECW before it became mainstream.

Attitude Era was a bit before the internet really went HAM with wrestling...so it seemed like there was never more wrestling available to the masses...couple it with Russo-tastic booking...and, a lot of the shit is so forgettable and happened so much, that people forget it happened...

The good stuff was awesome. The bad stuff was a lot more frequent than people remember it.

Piper really did halt a lot of momentum. He seems awful on the mic. Very non-sensical and always having to have his mic cut. Awful move to bring him in, like 99% of the WCW's late career acquisitions, like Earthquake and Bossman.

Honestly, the best thing the 90's had going for it aside from competition was the crowds. They were eevety bit as into it as the 80's crowds, but they had more energy it seemed like. The southern crowds were usually very hot for WCW and WWF had a lot of hormonal teenagers and young adults. The openings for Raw were always strong, as they'd pan a crowd that was usually going nuts. And WCW had their high points with the Horsemen reunion and the big Goldberg match where their crowds were as raucous as any.

Also, you missed DDP and Crow Sting. Sting was the biggest thing going in 97. The Hart Foundation as American heels and international faces is one of the best, most well thought-out angles ever. Very unique, and for some crazy reason never gets it's due next to IMO lesser angles like Vince/Austin and the Corporate Ministry angle.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I've still yet to hear a crowd pop for a moment like the Georgia Dome popped for Goldberg squashing Hogan. One of the biggest splooges I've seen a crowd do in wrestling. He picks him up for the Jackhammer and as he slams him its a big gush of semen all over the place.

The nWo was hot hot hot, IMO for a few months...then you had Bischoff try and McMahon himself into it, Piper showed up and half assed it...they started turning half the roster (really jumped the shark when they had Perfect turn on the Horsemen) and adding nWo Japan and shit and adding some real bums to the squad. Brutal stuff. By the end of '96, it was unwatchable.

 

[s@ppisgod]

1992 WWF > anything



That's a testament to how fucking red hot the business was at the time when you have over 10 million people tuning in on some Monday nights to watch pro wrestling.

Say what you want about the helter skelter nature of those Attitude Era RAWs....those crowds are sooooooo hot. They make the modern crowds look like they're filled with old church going women (and not the ones who'd go to southern wrasslin in the day to boo the fuck out of heels).

Agreed. The crowds today, and culture in general, is just soooo apathetic that it hurts the product. In the 90's, it was the opposite. The crowds helped get angles over with the audience at home by getting into it as much as they did.

 

[FedEx227]

I've still yet to hear a crowd pop for a moment like the Georgia Dome popped for Goldberg squashing Hogan. One of the biggest splooges I've seen a crowd do in wrestling. He picks him up for the Jackhammer and as he slams him its a big gush of semen all over the place.

The nWo was hot hot hot, IMO for a few months...then you had Bischoff try and McMahon himself into it, Piper showed up and half assed it...they started turning half the roster (really jumped the shark when they had Perfect turn on the Horsemen) and adding nWo Japan and shit and adding some real bums to the squad. Brutal stuff. By the end of '96, it was unwatchable.

End of 97?

 

[FedEx227]

Agreed. The crowds today, and culture in general, is just soooo apathetic that it hurts the product. In the 90's, it was the opposite. The crowds helped get angles over with the audience at home by getting into it as much as they did.

I think that largely has to do with the makeup of the crowd. Just as someone who attended then to now, the crowds are so different. There were kids in those days, but it was mostly 16-34 year old males. At least in Chicago these days it's mostly kids and Mexican families with a smattering of older males.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

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All that was missing was Harold.

I wonder if Daniel Bryan had creative input on the Kane hug.