The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

If they are booking Ryback to win, it needs to be a complete annihilation, a total squash, i'm talking 4 or 5 minutes or destruction where Punk gets nothing in and misses RAW selling the idea that he's dead.

That's the best chance they have to get Ryback over at the level they want.

Think Ultimate Warrior vs Honky Tonk Man from SummerSlam '89 or Bruno over Buddy Rogers.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

But is Punk a draw?

The argument is then whether a Punk/Rock Rumble match suffers at the gate and on PPV if you (worst case scenario) have Punk lose this weekend but regain the belt next month if Ryback stumbles.

Rock's first match back is gonna do business regardless, so is the risk low enough to take a chance and make a guy go over the #2 star in the company?

EDIT....Forgot Rock's Rumble match is with the champion. No way they'd do Rock/Ryback at Rumble so yes, they're in a bit of a corner.

Jericho's argument is that they should do Rock/Ryback at Rumble, because Ryback is the next big thing.

 

[JimLeavy59]

I don't think Dwayne wants to get dropped on his head by Ryback.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I also disagree with Jericho's assessment that the 330+ day reign doesn't mean anything.

It means something to the fans, which means you can make money off of it. The entire goal of a wrestling promoter is to make the fans care enough to spend money on something. If they keep playing up the long title reign, if it becomes a big deal, in theory people will pay to either see it continue or see it end. And the person who ends it hopefully gets over in the process.

 

[EmpireWF]

Rock/Ryback at Rumble wouldn't be a terrible idea, either......but I don't see any chance in hell of Rock putting him over then. He's suppose to main event Wrestlemania against Cena I suppose.

Actually, if they were to do the quick Ryback squash of Punk and treat him like the ultimate badass through Rumble....Ryback/Rock would have plenty of buzz.

 

[SuperKevin]

I'd love to see Ryback go undefeated up to Wrestlemania and take on Undertaker for the streak

 

[JimLeavy59]

Rock/Ryback at Rumble wouldn't be a terrible idea, either......but I don't see any chance in hell of Rock putting him over then. He's suppose to main event Wrestlemania against Cena I suppose.

Actually, if they were to do the quick Ryback squash of Punk and treat him like the ultimate badass through Rumble....Ryback/Rock would have plenty of buzz.

But does The Rock want to work with him?


Also Ryback couldn't pick up an STD in a whorehouse

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Even if you have Ryback kill Punk, you run into the same issue at Rumble with The Rock. Obviously The Rock isn't losing, so you have to beat Ryback at some point.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

A few things about that Jericho article.

#1...obviously people remember and know of Goldberg...they chant his name for Ryback every week.
#2...the only problem with pushing Ryback to the moon is...if you put the belt on him, the belt has to come off him. And, as the tippy top guy (being the WWE Champion is that), you gotta carry to a certain point...

They put the belt on Del Rio...and he couldn't carry anyone and had zero momentum. They put the belt on The Miz...and, the Miz can carry on the mic, but when it came to delivering in the ring, he can't...they took the belt off him shortly after his flop of a WrestleMania match.

Goldberg was built up PERFECTLY. You can't recreate that. When he won the title off Hogan, it was a culmination of fans willing this guy to that title. Everything was perfect...the setting, the push, the story...the match even delivered and Goldberg couldn't work for shit. That match was a 15 minute segment and was exactly what everyone wanted...the match itself was only like 5-6 minutes, with a lot of heel stall tactics and nWo shenanigans outside of the ring...the in-ring product was basically 2 minutes of Goldberg domination, 3 minutes of Hogan heel tactics, and another minute where Goldberg won the title. Simple, effective, and I've never heard a bigger pop from a crowd then when he won the title.

Ryback...the push is rushed beyond belief...he's never had an actual feud. Even Goldberg had feuds. The heat behind him is very minimal to what they'd actually want you to believe. He can't carry anything. Not a match, not a promo, not nothing.

So, what happens, you put the belt on him at Hell in a Cell...anything other than a 3 minute squash does nothing but hurt the character, IMO. Anything longer than 3 minutes exposes him, because he can't work. So, you put the belt on him...and then what...let him run until Royal Rumble? You put the belt on someone...it means they need to lose the belt at some point. That is why some of the best champs ever are guys that could lose and maintain their momentum. The Super Human push and streak is a bad way to get a guy over...sooner or later, it is all they have. Unbeatable characters aren't as interesting anymore if they are beat. It is why Goldberg couldn't maintain momentum after he lost the belt. He couldn't carry unless it was a squash and all he had going for him was the streak. The Ultimate Warrior was never quite the same after Slaughter beat him at the Rumble. A WrestleMania Undertaker match doesn't have the luster anymore if he doesn't have the streak.

I just don't see the point in strapping Ryback up now...there are plenty of ways to put Ryback over like a million bucks without him winning the match. It also sheds the silly streak gimmick with keeping him look strong.

As for Punk...I would say Punk is very very close to actually being as legitimate a top guy as Cena. So, there is something left to be done for him with this title run.

I will say this...the WWE has done a good job because...no one knows what the outcome of this PPV match will be, which, is a rarity in the E to have that unpredictability.

 

[IamMedellin]

Yeah...

Goldberg was fed jobbers n then had a great match with Raven to win the US title where he made him look like a million bucks...Goldberg had build and Atlanta went wild for the hometown boy that night

Ryback's eaten jobbers n had Tensai sandbag him twice on TV...and then Just BAM he's in the main event...half the crowd sat on their hands after his match with Miz on RAW

But Vinnie Mac will prolly put the title on him anyways just like he did with Lashley

 

[EmpireWF]

After all this, Punk wins with the help of 100 chair shots or some similar attack.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

You can tell, with great efficacy, what products the WWE are untouched by Vince and what products get free reign to just be what they are.

NXT, most of Smackdown, the stuff they do on .com, Superstars...those things are untouched by Vince and are actually decent wrestling TV. Not great, but decent. The talent and "producers" are basically given carte blanche. Smackdown is pretty boring, but it at least makes sense week-to-week. Main Event will get to a point where its untouched by Vince and it'll be decent TV.

Vince cares about RAW and the PPVs. That's really it...and those just happen to be what most people complain about.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Just like Vince ECW.

It starts off...gives Paul E. free reign with some guidelines of course...ratings rise and the quality is fairly good (they made Sandman v. the Zombie entertaining lol)...then Vince pulls the power play at December to Dismember...ratings fall, quality is worse...Vince loses interest...someone else takes over most of the booking and quickly, the quality changes, the ratings rise a little and flat line, and all of a sudden the WWE has their next fertile ground of next Superstars developing...Punk, Morrison, Miz, Swagger, etc.

The same thing is happening with NXT to a lesser extent. It starts off without much of Vince's attention, its good...then he gets the attention, it sucks, he loses interest, someone decides to keep it around (in this case, Triple H...and names Dusty the guy who runs it, with help from the likes of Jim Ross) and its a good product that will harvest the next crop of WWE stars...

Problem is, Vince will never not care about RAW or the PPVs...those are his babies and he will always prioritize those at the top of his "to-do" list...when he dies, then he'll lose interest. He also always has a pet project around...its usually a big stiff that can't work, but its always his pet project. Sometimes its a guy that works out (The Rock)...sometimes its not (Bobby Lashley)...but, now, its Ryback. He's getting strapped up at some point...hopefully this is one of those instances where Punk stands up for common sense (which he has been known to do with Vince).

 

[ThomasTomasz]

The part where he puts it out there that he is not employed by the WWE and hasn't talked to Vince for a month seems to indicate to me that Jericho isn't planning for a return to them, even after this Fozzy tour is over.

 

[EmpireWF]

Never trust Jericho, he takes pride in working the internet.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I would bet my life Jericho returns at some point.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

I would bet my life Jericho returns at some point.

I didn't mean to say never, but I would guess it wouldn't be after this tour. Some of his comments seem bitter, and if I were Jericho booked the way he was on this return, I would be bitter too.

 

[SuperKevin]

Jericho should go to TNA where the schedule is more forgiving

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Never trust Jericho, he takes pride in working the internet.

He has been pretty adamant for a while that it is very difficult to work with the WWE at this point in his life. He's got so many interests outside of the WWE bubble that Vince is opposed to him doing while working for the WWE, its tough to come to terms with a regular WWE deal. He can't tour with Fozzy, he can't tape random shows, he can't do certain appearances while under WWE contract, so, that is why he does these little short contracts.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

If you've read Jericho's books, he talks about doing some autograph signing for some shitty promoter, and WWE being the "major leagues" and how he will never lower himself to working anywhere else again. I don't see TNA in his future.

Jericho is a smart dude. He will come back every year or so just in time to work his way onto the WrestleMania card to grab that fat check. Then he takes off, does his thing with Fozzy or whatever, rinse repeat.