The General Wrestling Thread

[EmpireWF]

From a WWE.com interview with a bunch of people talking 'WHAT IF ECW didn't die...'

http://www.wwe.com/classics/ecw/what-if-ecw-didnt-close-26114690

WWECLASSICS.COM: Who were some of the young stars that could have emerged in the original ECW?

CORINO: Paul really liked to use guys that didn’t fit the mold. I would definitely say that Christopher Daniels and Low-Ki would have been the first two that Paul would have got.

HEYMAN: I held off on bringing in Low-Ki, because I was not convinced of the liability of the company and didn’t want to debut someone in our dying days. But Low-Ki would have been a major player.

STYLES: So all of those top stars from Ring of Honor — CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Samoa Joe — would have found their way to ECW.

LYNN: I wrestled CM Punk around that time on an IWA Mid-South show that Ian Rotten was running. He was great.

CORINO: Of course, CM Punk and Colt Cabana. But I would be totally surprised if Punk didn’t become the star that he became. The letters of ECW are gone, but the guys that would’ve shined in ECW are still shining now.


HEYMAN: If you look at who emerged on the horizon 12 to 18 months after ECW stopped running shows, I think it’s very reasonable to believe that we would have picked up CM Punk and several of the other young stars that emerged in the independent scene in the early part of that decade. Punk obviously is the one that I would hope I would have noticed.

MERCURY: I think Charlie and Russ Haas would’ve been great fits. I think Steve Bradley would have been great. He was an extraordinary talent. I could see [R-Truth] doing very well in ECW. He has it all. He’s talented in the ring, he’s a hell of athlete and he can talk, he has a great look. Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan, Antonio Cesaro — I could see those guys fitting in.

LYNN: In 2001, John Cena was down in developmental at Ohio Valley Wrestling in Louisville, Ky., and they sent Molly Holly, Dean Malenko and I out there to take a look at the guys. I wrestled a bit with Cena in the ring. He asked, “Do you have any constructive criticism for me?” And I said, “No, not really. You can wrestle.” On that same trip, I wrestled Randy Orton on their TV taping. Both of those guys could have ended up in ECW.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

HEYMAN: I held off on bringing in Low-Ki, because I was not convinced of the liability of the company and didn’t want to debut someone in our dying days. But Low-Ki would have been a major player.

This is a very interesting statement, and one of the reasons I wish Heyman would do more media (he's way too smart for that, he's probably got a book planned and waiting for the right time - like when he's not making any money - to tell his tales). It also shows why the ECW roster was such shit at the end, because he didn't want to bring new guys in because he knew it was dead. The part he's leaving out, is he couldn't bring new guys in, because he wasn't paying anybody by that point.

Anyway, i've always said that I believe what ROH eventually became is what ECW would have naturally evolved into. Hardcore was no longer hot, workrate was. Heyman was always (and still is) ahead of the curve on things, plus Sapolsky if nothing else has always had a keen eye for talent and it's very likely Heyman would have liked the same group of people (such as Low Ki). I mean, who wouldn't like Punk, Low Ki, Christopher Daniels, Kendrick, Paul London, Colt Cabana, Samoa Joe, etc?

I think ECW in 2002 & 2003 would have been a mirror image of ROH 2002 & 2003. ROH would have never existed.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

...and right in cue, as im reading the article, this:

HEYMAN: The content of the company was set to change anyway. The hardcore era was over.

WWECLASSICS.COM: What would that new style have been?

HEYMAN: We certainly would have gone toward incorporating more of a progressive, submission-based style, rather than relying on what had been hot from ’94 to ’99. We would have accepted the influence of mixed martial arts quicker than the others, but never lost sight of it still being pro wrestling. That’s where we were headed. The flaming tables and the barbed wire would’ve been saved for the big-time moments. Things were moving toward more of a hybrid style that nobody had found the niche for yet.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

...and this, lol

STYLES: Would ECW still be in business today, 12 years later? I don’t know. But I do think there could’ve been a few more years had ECW hung on until after WCW went out of business. In a way, Ring of Honor really did fill the niche for ECW in terms of the scientific wrestling and the high-flying wrestling.

DREAMER: Ring of Honor would have never happened. The original owners of Ring of Honor came from ECW.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

This is how WWE should handle a Cena turn if they ever decide to go down that road.

For those unfamiliar, Johnny Gargano was becoming a John Cena like superhero babyface in Dragon Gate USA. Overcoming ridiculous odds, holding the title forever (something like 600 days now), white meat babyface hero to the point it was on the verge of becoming annoying.

So he has this classic match at WrestleMania weekend with Shingo, one of the top stars of Dragon Gate in Japan, and a guy who hasn't been to America in like 3 or 4 years. Watch the video and see what happens.

Basically his heel antics ruined a great match with a special opponent, with the story being he couldn't put Shingo away to win otherwise, so now Gargano is doing a mock up/lack of self awareness white meat babyface deal as a heel. It's actually pretty brilliant and has pumped new life into what was becoming a pretty stale scene in DGUSA.

My point here, is Cena would be perfect in the "heel who has no idea he's a heel" wink wink role.

 

[s@ppisgod]

You know, the more I think about this, the more it makes sense.

Cesaro did all of those great videos when he was U.S. champ, really clever, funny, off the cuff stuff, but mostly dry understated humor. He's not an over the top IN YOUR FACE type of personality, and has always been subtle. Even in the KOW days, it was Chris Hero who was the boisterous one, while Cesaro made subtle gestures and mannerisms.

I guess he's not WACKY enough for Vince. I can just see Vince complaining in my minds eye..."So he's European? I don't get it. Let's see that sonuffabitch act European! Tell 'em to yodel! Give 'em a beret! If he's gonna be European, go all the way, dammit!"

"He's gonna....He's gonna puke! He's gonna PUKE! HE'S GONNA PUKE! HE'S GONNA PUKE!!!!"

 

[JimLeavy59]

This is how WWE should handle a Cena turn if they ever decide to go down that road.

For those unfamiliar, Johnny Gargano was becoming a John Cena like superhero babyface in Dragon Gate USA. Overcoming ridiculous odds, holding the title forever (something like 600 days now), white meat babyface hero to the point it was on the verge of becoming annoying.

So he has this classic match at WrestleMania weekend with Shingo, one of the top stars of Dragon Gate in Japan, and a guy who hasn't been to America in like 3 or 4 years. Watch the video and see what happens.

Basically his heel antics ruined a great match with a special opponent, with the story being he couldn't put Shingo away to win otherwise, so now Gargano is doing a mock up/lack of self awareness white meat babyface deal as a heel. It's actually pretty brilliant and has pumped new life into what was becoming a pretty stale scene in DGUSA.

My point here, is Cena would be perfect in the "heel who has no idea he's a heel" wink wink role.

Isn't he already playing that role depending on what town he's in?

 

[BRUCE80]

This is how WWE should handle a Cena turn if they ever decide to go down that road.

For those unfamiliar, Johnny Gargano was becoming a John Cena like superhero babyface in Dragon Gate USA. Overcoming ridiculous odds, holding the title forever (something like 600 days now), white meat babyface hero to the point it was on the verge of becoming annoying.

So he has this classic match at WrestleMania weekend with Shingo, one of the top stars of Dragon Gate in Japan, and a guy who hasn't been to America in like 3 or 4 years. Watch the video and see what happens.

Basically his heel antics ruined a great match with a special opponent, with the story being he couldn't put Shingo away to win otherwise, so now Gargano is doing a mock up/lack of self awareness white meat babyface deal as a heel. It's actually pretty brilliant and has pumped new life into what was becoming a pretty stale scene in DGUSA.

My point here, is Cena would be perfect in the "heel who has no idea he's a heel" wink wink role.

The wresting in ring work there is so far ahead of anything TNA or WWE does its not even close...thanks for posting.

 

[JimLeavy59]

Man MVP should have been WWE Champion same with Carlito, the WWE dropped the ball with those guys.

 

[EmpireWF]

From TMZ...

But sources tell us ... Aries -- real name Daniel Solwold, Jr. -- reached out to Hemme and privately apologized, acknowledging he crossed the line.

TNA also came down hard on Aries and slapped the wrestler with a fine -- it's unclear how much cash Aries will have to fork over.

As for Hemme, we're told she has spoken with TNA officials and told them she was "satisfied" with Aries' apology.

that's over with.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

HEYMAN: I held off on bringing in Low-Ki, because I was not convinced of the liability of the company and didn’t want to debut someone in our dying days. But Low-Ki would have been a major player.

This is a very interesting statement, and one of the reasons I wish Heyman would do more media (he's way too smart for that, he's probably got a book planned and waiting for the right time - like when he's not making any money - to tell his tales). It also shows why the ECW roster was such shit at the end, because he didn't want to bring new guys in because he knew it was dead. The part he's leaving out, is he couldn't bring new guys in, because he wasn't paying anybody by that point.

Anyway, i've always said that I believe what ROH eventually became is what ECW would have naturally evolved into. Hardcore was no longer hot, workrate was. Heyman was always (and still is) ahead of the curve on things, plus Sapolsky if nothing else has always had a keen eye for talent and it's very likely Heyman would have liked the same group of people (such as Low Ki). I mean, who wouldn't like Punk, Low Ki, Christopher Daniels, Kendrick, Paul London, Colt Cabana, Samoa Joe, etc?

I think ECW in 2002 & 2003 would have been a mirror image of ROH 2002 & 2003. ROH would have never existed.

Without question.

The whole ROH, Evolve/DGUSA (their TNN run featured more guys from Japan like Awesome, Tajiri, and Tanaka) tree that stemmed from ECW is where ECW would have eventually gone...MAYBE.

They got on TV...and ECW, not only didn't have the talent, it didn't have substance either, IMO. It wasn't just the lack of talent...ECW lacked substance to its programs once on TNN as well.

 

[BRUCE80]

I watched that Aries n Hemme thing again on DVR since I missed it first glance...I get it and all...but I have seen far worse over the years...I am just not that appalled by it honestly.

In fact if I hadnt heard that it was being made a big deal of...and it was my first glance of it...I would have thought it was funny and perfect for his current in ring character. :dance3:

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The only reason the Aries incident became anything more than Aries apologizing in private was because of Mark Madden getting on a soapbox. Otherwise, it's a complete non issue and nobody ever knows Aries ever apologized. I mean, the "incident" was so minor and completely blown out of proportion. TNA & Spike have to release stern statements & shit now, because Madden made it a story and they don't want to open themselves up to anything if Hemme decides to get sassy with a lawyer, or feminist groups decide its a slow month and launch a campaign. He meant no harm beyond being a heel. It looked bad I guess, if you are looking for something.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

We live in a PC world.

My biggest gripe with society and culture in general here in the States. Pussified.

Aries was being a heel, and probably a little miffed Hemme fucked up their entrance and did some very minor hazing. People not even involved in said event or at the show, nor probably watched it live, got up in arms over. Mark Madden is a cunt.

 

[Bigpapa42]

It "looks bad" in the same way that a WWE heel (Del Rio, I think) looked bad when some retard mom called him out for "bullying" her kid by ripping up a sign. You can spin almost anything if you try hard enough. If Hemme was offended and complained, fair enough. It was handled, apology given, and they move on. But calling for Ares to be fired? The fuck is it to you? I don't know if I can really claim I had respect for Madden before this but definitely don't know.

 

[EmpireWF]

It "looks bad" in the same way that a WWE heel (Del Rio, I think) looked bad when some retard mom called him out for "bullying" her kid by ripping up a sign. You can spin almost anything if you try hard enough.

No, that mom is just a dumb bitch and nothing can change that.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Reading more of that ECW article...interesting stuff.

Talking about potential stars...everyone agrees Joey Mercury and Christian York would have been big. That's pretty realistic.

The interesting one was Michael Shane, mentioned by Heyman. Good ol Maverick Matt.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

What struck me about the article was how clueless some of the wrestlers were to the landscape. Especially a guy like Corino who has a good mind for the business. I can understand not knowing in the moment where ECW stood style wise, but in hindsight it should be crystal clear that hardcore was dead, probably before ECW itself died.

 

[s@ppisgod]

That was awesome by Aries. Hemme screwed up the enterance, and Aries saved it and made it into a positive. If he had done that to Jeremy Borash, no one would think it was sexual. He didn't make it sexual, he just acted like she wasn't there. They should give the man a raise, if not for the new TMZ society where anyone of notoriety doing ANYTHING out of the norm is a "story". Madden has always been a worthless douche, anyway.

 

[JimLeavy59]

http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/272477-nothing-done-yet-an-update-on-arieshemme-situation

:lol: Madden is really full of himself.