The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

Maybe the expectations were just too high. I'm not sure what you guys were expecting. Did you think Bryan was the next mega star? Personally I don't think he can ever be that with this cartoon gimmick.

He's a top guy now, a made guy. Protected in the booking. Super over. Maybe that's the ceiling here. Nobody pops PPV anymore except for Rock & Lesnar. PPV has been dropping for 5 years with Cena on top, tell me he isn't a big star. A couple of flat PPV buyrates against a total non entity are not good, but it's not bad either. PPV business did not bottom out without Cena. It basically held at the meh levels it's always been at.

I'm not arguing he's Cena or Austin or Rock when I say he's a bigger star now, maybe that's the disconnect here.

 

[FedEx227]

I know you aren't watching the shows a bunch, but you're throwing around "protected in booking" when a majority of the promos about him are spent telling everyone how small, ugly and not important he is.

I don't disagree with any of your other points but I think that part needs to be addressed.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

He's protected in match booking to an extent...but sooner or later, the face needs to give the heel their comeuppance and Bryan has not...and now he's moving on from the program? That's a bad look.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I know you aren't watching the shows a bunch, but you're throwing around "protected in booking" when a majority of the promos about him are spent telling everyone how small, ugly and not important he is.

I don't disagree with any of your other points but I think that part needs to be addressed.

I can't, and won't defend that.

That's Vince being Vince. Alpha male macho counter productive bullshit.

 

[FedEx227]

But right there, you're admitting it's counter productive which is our argument. He's being protected on PPV by not losing but he's not really getting ahead. On TV he's taking finishers, being told he's ugly and short, etc.

Whatever, I'm done with it. WWE is WWE. Vince is Vince. Hunter is Hunter. So it goes. We got our yearly taste and it's time to move on.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

He's protected in match booking to an extent...but sooner or later, the face needs to give the heel their comeuppance and Bryan has not...and now he's moving on from the program? That's a bad look.

He laid out Trips, & tapped Michaels for screwing him.

I think you need to adjust your thinking a bit. He's clearly been booked superior to Orton.

This comes down to the title. You value it more than me. We won't see completely eye to eye because of that. I think the angle with Michaels means more than the belt in the context of how they present their product. Watching RAW my fear was Bryan would slink away with his tail between his legs, and I was prepared to join the riot with you guys. But that was one great segment, right there.

 

[FedEx227]

Lots of derps on Twitter think TNA will be bought for peanuts so I wanted to explain why TNA will sell for substantially more than WCW and more than a lot of people probably expect.

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/10/29/what-wcws-sale-means-for-tna/

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Lots of derps on Twitter think TNA will be bought for peanuts so I wanted to explain why TNA will sell for substantially more than WCW and more than a lot of people probably expect.

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/10/29/what-wcws-sale-means-for-tna/

This was very good wake up call, too bad you didn't write it two days ago when we were discussing this in this thread. That TV is very valuable.

 

[FedEx227]

I had it all but done Sunday night but didn't have a chance to double-check all the numbers and facts.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I don't know what TNA's books look like NOW...but they streamlined their books to the point where what they are selling is more attractive and can get the most possible money for it.

Before...I'd question the sale, even with the timeslot, because what they were offering is one helluva messy book. Now...I don't know what they'll get, but what they do get, will be max value...especially if they can hold off for a little bit, show consistent profitability with the boneyard roster and expenses.

 

[s@ppisgod]

Lots of derps on Twitter think TNA will be bought for peanuts so I wanted to explain why TNA will sell for substantially more than WCW and more than a lot of people probably expect.

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/10/29/what-wcws-sale-means-for-tna/

All of that is true, but it's only half the story. WCW was a brand with 15 years of stability behind it. Albeit a lot of ups and down. It had a brand. TNA has done 0 branding. It's on Spike, which has gone into obscurity since they lost UFC. Spike isn't close to the stature TNT was at the time of the sale of WCW. So whatever Fusient was going to pay is boyh likely much more than McMahon paid AND more than the Carters are going to get for TNA.

 

[FedEx227]

Sure, I'm not doubting that. The rumored figure of Fusient was around $48 million. It's not going to be that. It's going to be FAR less but way more than $2.5 million.

 

[s@ppisgod]

Sure, I'm not doubting that. The rumored figure of Fusient was around $48 million. It's not going to be that. It's going to be FAR less but way more than $2.5 million.

Really? I can't see any way the sale exceedes $10 mil. The TV is very, very hard to get, but you have to figure out how to make money with a fanbase that doesn't spend any and sponsors who assume the same about your fanbase. It could well be a money pit for whoever buys in, and that's leverage.

 

[FedEx227]

Spike sees tremendous value in it though and to have the support of the network is huge. They've been single-handedly keeping TNA afloat for years now. If someone can come in, with good financial backing and actually knows something about the business and can make money there, it's a great asset. The biggest hurdle has already been crossed with the time slot and network support.

 

[JimLeavy59]

With the right vision Impact can be a legit number 2 to the WWE.

 

[s@ppisgod]

Spike sees tremendous value in it though and to have the support of the network is huge. They've been single-handedly keeping TNA afloat for years now. If someone can come in, with good financial backing and actually knows something about the business and can make money there, it's a great asset. The biggest hurdle has already been crossed with the time slot and network support.

It's a great situation for a wrestling business person, but an awful situation for a business person. It depends on the potential buyer. But from a negotiation standpoint, they could get beat down. The Spike support buys them time. Time is not money. TNA needs to make a profit at some point...

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Really? I can't see any way the sale exceedes $10 mil. The TV is very, very hard to get, but you have to figure out how to make money with a fanbase that doesn't spend any and sponsors who assume the same about your fanbase. It could well be a money pit for whoever buys in, and that's leverage.

The fanbase doesn't spend because the product is shit.

TNA squeezes the least money per eyeball out of probably any wrestling company, ever.

Heyman would outdraw WCW PPV with syndicated TV at 3am. TNA can't get 8,000 people out of 1.1 million to buy some of their shows.

None of that matters to Spike. All they care bout is the 1.1 million, so that TV slot is safe & sound. Plus what it does for Bellator.

I dont know what its worth, but it's more than $2.5M.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The fanbase doesn't spend because the product is shit.

TNA squeezes the least money per eyeball out of probably any wrestling company, ever.

Heyman would outdraw WCW PPV with syndicated TV at 3am. TNA can't get 8,000 people out of 1.1 million to buy some of their shows.

None of that matters to Spike. All they care bout is the 1.1 million, so that TV slot is safe & sound. Plus what it does for Bellator.

I dont know what its worth, but it's more than $2.5M.

The TNA product isn't worth much, IMO. The timeslot is what it has going for it. Whatever the market rate is for that, is where I see this thing going.

You are either going to get a Bischoff-led group or a group of TV investors that want what comes with that 1.1 on Spike TV every week. Either way, TNA will never get appreciably better.

The chance an investment group comes in with a guy who has a love for wrestling is slim and none.

 

[s@ppisgod]

The fanbase doesn't spend because the product is shit.

TNA squeezes the least money per eyeball out of probably any wrestling company, ever.

Heyman would outdraw WCW PPV with syndicated TV at 3am. TNA can't get 8,000 people out of 1.1 million to buy some of their shows.

None of that matters to Spike. All they care bout is the 1.1 million, so that TV slot is safe & sound. Plus what it does for Bellator.

I dont know what its worth, but it's more than $2.5M.

True, but you're walking into a situation where your base, hardcore fanbase is used to not spending a dime. Yeah, they could spend in the future. Maybe. But if you're gonna spend 5-10 million on something, chances are you're gonna be a liiiitlle risk-averse. Unless they have a ton of money, which anyone buying TNA likely wouldn't.

 

[s@ppisgod]

The TNA product isn't worth much, IMO. The timeslot is what it has going for it. Whatever the market rate is for that, is where I see this thing going.

You are either going to get a Bischoff-led group or a group of TV investors that want what comes with that 1.1 on Spike TV every week. Either way, TNA will never get appreciably better.

The chance an investment group comes in with a guy who has a love for wrestling is slim and none.

Where's the Thanks button on this post? It's not there for me, so thanks Lurry.